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Jim__

(15,262 posts)
29. I understood the article to say structural relations are important and not perspective.
Wed Jul 31, 2013, 02:10 PM
Jul 2013

I didn't see (or don't remember seeing) the exact example that's mentioned in the OP. But the article does briefly talk about symmetries, relations and perspective. I understand the article to be saying that structural relations are important and not really affected by perception.

From the article (my bolding):

...

A growing number of people think that what really matters are not things but the relations in which those things stand. Such a view breaks with traditional atomist or pointillist conceptions of the material world in a more radical way than even the severest modifications of particle and field ontologies could do.

Initially this position known as structural realism, came in a fairly moderate version known as epistemic structural realism. It runs as follows: We may never know the real nature of things but only how they are related to one another. Take the example of mass. Do you ever see mass itself? No. You see only what it means for other entities or, concretely, how one massive body is related to another massive body through the local gravitational field. The structure of the world, reflecting how things are interrelated, is the most enduring part of physics theories. New theories may overturn our conception of the basic building blocks of the world, but they tend to preserve the structures. That is how scientists can make progress.

Now the following question arises: What is the reason that we can know only the relations among things and not the things themselves? The straightforward answer is that the realtions are all there is. This leap makes structural realism a more radical proposition call ontic structural realism.

The myriad symmetries of modern physics lend support to ontic structural realism. In quantum mechanics as well as in Einstein's theory of gravitation, certain changes in the configuration of the world - known as symmetry transformations - have no empirical consequences. These transformations exchange the individual things that make up the world but leave their relations the same. By analogy, consider a mirror-symmetric face. A mirror swaps the left eye for the right eye, the left nostril for the right, and so on. Yet all the relative positions of facial features remain. Those relations are what truly define a face, whereas labels such as "left" and "right" depend on your vantage point. The things we have been calling "particles" and "fields" possess more abstract symmetries, but the idea is the same.

...


Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

A Scientific American article on quantum physics? I am genuinely impressed. cbayer Jul 2013 #1
The article was impenetrable at times. There was stuff like this - pinto Jul 2013 #5
I took 4 years of calculus - no problem, but physics kicked my butt. cbayer Jul 2013 #6
I could never wrap my brain around. AlbertCat Jul 2013 #28
I'll ask this guy. rug Jul 2013 #2
LOL. Is his head to the right or the left? Is water wet? pinto Jul 2013 #3
Looks like refraction in a pool. rug Jul 2013 #4
Thread winner, rug! longship Jul 2013 #9
application of concepts from quantum physics to other areas are almost always nonsense. Warren Stupidity Jul 2013 #7
I don't get what you mean. pinto Jul 2013 #12
Quantum physics describes the nature of physical reality at the micro level. Warren Stupidity Jul 2013 #14
Thanks Warren edhopper Jul 2013 #15
Relevant: trotsky Jul 2013 #17
I read an article. Got some ideas from it. Posted. Probably a mistake to use a religious analogy. pinto Jul 2013 #21
s'okay edhopper Jul 2013 #22
Mostly what I get from delving into modern physics is an appreciation Warren Stupidity Jul 2013 #24
I know what you mean edhopper Jul 2013 #25
Here's the lead of the piece I read - pinto Jul 2013 #20
Yeah, three paragraphs and I'm done. RevStPatrick Jul 2013 #8
Quantum is just the way the universe is. longship Jul 2013 #10
Thanks for the lead, I'll check it out. (aside) I'm peddling nothing here. Honestly. pinto Jul 2013 #11
Yup! But field theory is still the real deal, for now. longship Jul 2013 #13
Interesting edhopper Jul 2013 #16
Is the article "What is Real" by Meinard Kuhlman? Jim__ Jul 2013 #18
Yeah. They ran it with the "What is Real?" title. Here's what is currently up on the SA website - pinto Jul 2013 #19
God? I thought all that was about a cat. MissMarple Jul 2013 #23
Looking forward to reading the August issue exboyfil Jul 2013 #26
Hogwash. Particles are neither unique nor immortal. DetlefK Jul 2013 #27
I understood the article to say structural relations are important and not perspective. Jim__ Jul 2013 #29
Latest Discussions»Issue Forums»Religion»Both of these are true - ...»Reply #29