Religion

edhopper

(37,386 posts)

36. Here's the problem

Wed Jul 31, 2013, 07:01 PM

Jul 2013

that is part of YOUR theology.
Many, many Christians believe that his suffering was necessary. And Predestined.
Dawkins is making a statement about what millions of Christians believe.
Just because you don't hold that particular belief doesn't make the cartoon wrong.
It is only wrong in regards to your own personal beliefs.
I am sure you do not say you are speaking for ALL Christians.

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Why torture your son? [View all] pokerfan Jul 2013 OP

Maybe satan made him do it? mikeysnot Jul 2013 #1

Sometimes I think that the Abrahamic religions worship a demon and not a "god". kestrel91316 Jul 2013 #2

What a lovely site! cbayer Jul 2013 #3

I'm cool with it, especially if it is funny. ZombieHorde Aug 2013 #51

That would go over like a nuclear bomb here, and you know it, ZH. cbayer Aug 2013 #53

We all know that's half the fun. nt ZombieHorde Aug 2013 #55

I don't think it's much fun at all. cbayer Aug 2013 #56

That is fair. I forget that we're not all admused by making fun of ourselves. nt ZombieHorde Aug 2013 #57

I'm pretty good about making fun of myself. It's the making fun of others I don't cbayer Aug 2013 #58

Once again Dawkins proceeds on a false premise. rug Jul 2013 #4

Well... pokerfan Jul 2013 #6

Nevermind prefunk Jul 2013 #20

It really is the orthodox view. rug Jul 2013 #21

That is your belief edhopper Jul 2013 #31

Ordained or not, it doesn't mean he had no choice. rug Jul 2013 #35

Here's the problem edhopper Jul 2013 #36

Give me one link that holds God was powerless to do anything else. rug Jul 2013 #37

What a weird way to phrase it. edhopper Jul 2013 #38

Precisely. Now read that cartoon headline again. rug Jul 2013 #39

Read the tag line edhopper Jul 2013 #40

"Why did he have to have his son tortured?" rug Jul 2013 #41

This is just getting sad edhopper Jul 2013 #42

True, I find this result would have been more compelling, for belief: AtheistCrusader Aug 2013 #67

Too much thinking, not enough blind faith Blue Owl Jul 2013 #5

I am a Christian and my parents are not. My dad says to me... hrmjustin Jul 2013 #7

Jesus did not have to be crucified pokerfan Jul 2013 #8

Jesus accepted the will of the Father. Christians believe Jesus's Death and Ressurrection is a hrmjustin Jul 2013 #9

But didn't Jesus know that he wouldn't really die? pokerfan Jul 2013 #10

Jesus really did die. It was not a pretend death. And he rose again. That is my beliefs. hrmjustin Jul 2013 #11

OK. Didn't he know that he would really truly die... pokerfan Jul 2013 #12

According to the gospels he predicted it three times. hrmjustin Jul 2013 #13

So... pokerfan Jul 2013 #14

Hanging on a cross is a sacrifice, He really did suffer. hrmjustin Jul 2013 #15

Lots of other people hung on crosses. Mariana Jul 2013 #29

Well i understand that view but as a Christian I believed he died and rose again. He did suffer pain hrmjustin Jul 2013 #30

I think that viewpoint fails to take into consideration okasha Jul 2013 #32

I don't think it does. Mariana Jul 2013 #34

I agree with most of what you say. okasha Aug 2013 #48

There's a key difference, if we accept the myth. trotsky Aug 2013 #49

As I read the Christian teaching, the occupying authority killed Jesus, after finding him struggle4progress Jul 2013 #16

Yet according to core Christian theology, the blood sacrifice was necessary. trotsky Jul 2013 #17

I suppose you may portray "core Christian theology" however you choose, struggle4progress Jul 2013 #18

I portray it as the vast majority of Christians believe it. trotsky Jul 2013 #22

I have some doubts about whether you have actually discussed the matter with "the vast majority struggle4progress Jul 2013 #23

My statement is backed by the official dogma of most major denominations. trotsky Jul 2013 #25

Funny how "Christ died for your sins" suddenly doesn't apply. Warren Stupidity Aug 2013 #43

What's funny is how people are able to talk past each other. eomer Aug 2013 #44

Wait... do I have this right? trotsky Aug 2013 #45

No, sorry if I made it sound that way. eomer Aug 2013 #46

OK, you might want to direct your comments toward s4p. trotsky Aug 2013 #47

This subthread is an example. rug Aug 2013 #50

Actually I think Trotsky and I meant the same thing. eomer Aug 2013 #59

If there was no redemption without his death is another way of saying he had to. rug Aug 2013 #60

So why didn't God just forgive without the torture and death of his son? eomer Aug 2013 #61

No, what Dawkins was attempting was a plagiarism of Epicurus. rug Aug 2013 #62

So Jesus' dying was not part of God's plan? n/t eomer Aug 2013 #63

A plan requires a present and a future. In other words, time. rug Aug 2013 #64

Okay, his will. The point that Dawkins is trying to make is that if God is all powerful... eomer Aug 2013 #65

Thanks for tracking down the source. rug Aug 2013 #68

Except it doesn't. rug Jul 2013 #19

So if he wasn't crucified edhopper Jul 2013 #24

An excellent question. rug Jul 2013 #26

The tenets based on "works" probably don't. okasha Jul 2013 #27

Why do you care? MissMarple Jul 2013 #28

If competing gods are torturing their sons, you do what you got to do. dimbear Jul 2013 #33

I don't recall any story okasha Aug 2013 #52

I allude, as you well understand, to the many dying and rising saviors which dimbear Aug 2013 #66

Good question. Zoeisright Aug 2013 #54