Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News Editorials & Other Articles General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

Religion

Showing Original Post only (View all)
 

demwing

(16,916 posts)
Sat Aug 24, 2013, 05:09 PM Aug 2013

How do Spiders Learn to Spin Webs? [View all]

I understand that weaving silk is a biological function for the spider, maybe comparable to growing hair, but spinning a web takes a bit of engineering. Some choices have to be made on whether a line is lateral, orbital, sticky, not sticky, etc. Yet spiders do not need to be taught this skill, they act on instinct.

Many animals act on instinct. Birds build nests, newly hatched sea turtles run toward the ocean, bees build well engineered hives, and so on. Perhaps all animal behavior is (or is triggered by) instinct.

So what is this power called "instinct"? Where is it located? What is it's source? Is it biological? Do we come pre-programmed, like some computer purchased with a version of the operating system already installed? It it related to intelligence at all?

Maybe spiders that spin webs--or use thread as a tool--are the smarter spiders, and maybe spiders that do not spin are the dull, dim relatives at the low end of the DNA ladder?

If instinct is not linked to intelligence, what is it? Merriam-Webster.com tells us that instinct is "behavior that is mediated by reactions below the conscious level."

Fire has behavior...and since there's no possibility that fire is conscious, can it be said that the behavior of fire is instinctive? What about weather patterns? What about the big-bang contraction and expansion of the Universe?

No? Then what is it about the behavior of systems that is different then then reflexive or instinctive behavior of life forms? Again, the dictionary tells us it consciousness. If learned behavior requires consciousness, what then creates consciousness? Life?

We really don't know what life is, or consciousness. Perhaps life is just a state of existence for an organic system that has reached a certain level of complexity. Perhaps consciousness is the act of such a system identifying itself as such as system.

We can't point to a spot in space where consciousness is (or is not), even though we recognize that consciousness is a real thing, and exists as a prerequisite for non-instinctive behavior, and though we can't point to it, touch it, or even measure it, we accept consciousness as self evident -- we think, therefore we are.

That doesn't mean we start a cult around the power of instinct, or open a worship hall, put on robes, get a special haircut, and start passing the collection plate.

It also doesn't mean that "God" taught spiders how to spin webs.

It means that if life can be reduced to "the behaviors of a complex system" then we might want to ask whether the most complex system we know of - the Universe - is alive, and is aware of itself. If life and consciousness happened on a small scale, it would not be terribly surprising to find that it happened on a large scale as well.

If the Universe is alive, and conscious, does it also possess intelligence? If not intelligence, does the Universe possess instinct?

Universal instinct, or Universal intelligence. Either sounds like a suitable explanation for what some people have called God.

37 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
I thought they just watch videos on the World Wide Web... n/t PoliticAverse Aug 2013 #1
LOL Skittles Aug 2013 #2
funny demwing Aug 2013 #4
That's where I have learned to do just about everything. cbayer Aug 2013 #5
This sounds quite Jungian. cbayer Aug 2013 #3
instinct is genetically hardwired behavior.... mike_c Aug 2013 #6
where else but at spider school gopiscrap Aug 2013 #7
Never mind that, how did they learn to eat like that? rug Aug 2013 #8
I read this quote one time. silverweb Aug 2013 #9
It's what hydrogen atoms do... pokerfan Aug 2013 #13
Beautiful. silverweb Aug 2013 #15
thanks for the quote! demwing Aug 2013 #16
One of the physicians i work with looks just Carl Sagan, except he has shoulder lenght hair. darkangel218 Aug 2013 #21
"... if life can be reduced to 'the behaviors of a complex system' ..." Jim__ Aug 2013 #10
Grandmother Spider teaches them, okasha Aug 2013 #11
We don't have a complete answer edhopper Aug 2013 #12
Either you missed the money line "It also doesn't mean that "God" taught spiders how to spin webs." demwing Aug 2013 #14
Being snide edhopper Aug 2013 #17
Well, first of all you have crossing universe problems with your scenario. Goblinmonger Aug 2013 #24
as interesting as most edhopper Aug 2013 #35
No kidding Goblinmonger Aug 2013 #36
as far as superpowers go edhopper Aug 2013 #37
I would guess the best way to learn web spinning techniques would be to watch a priest. DrewFlorida Aug 2013 #18
now that's a sharp answer demwing Aug 2013 #19
IMHO, yes, we do come just preprogrammed computers. darkangel218 Aug 2013 #20
Hate to break this to you, but humans are animals, okasha Aug 2013 #25
I was refering to all the other animals aside from the human species. darkangel218 Aug 2013 #26
You're still wrong. okasha Aug 2013 #27
So how am i wrong? darkangel218 Aug 2013 #28
You are wrong in your statement that okasha Aug 2013 #29
Preprogrammed instincts dont exclude new behavior learning!!! darkangel218 Aug 2013 #30
From your post #20. okasha Aug 2013 #34
You can take a kitten who was bottle fed and grew up only with humans. That cat will hund down mice darkangel218 Aug 2013 #31
I just said that. okasha Aug 2013 #32
Babies come with pre-programmed instints... Bay Boy Aug 2013 #33
Life = Biological Machine WovenGems Aug 2013 #22
"What's life ain't hard to define at all" -- that's not a consensus opinion demwing Aug 2013 #23
Latest Discussions»Issue Forums»Religion»How do Spiders Learn to S...»Reply #0