Religion

rug

(82,333 posts)

56. This sentence of yours has a certain hortatory quality.

Wed Aug 28, 2013, 06:01 PM

Aug 2013

"All religious people should renounce their religions, because they are not true."

This one emerges from a certain moral stance you appear to hold.

"It is especially desirable that those people who believe that their religion commands them to act in ways that I consider to be immoral renounce their religion, and that correlates quite strongly with Muslims."

Are you saying that those who do not renounce their beliefs are not moral? If not, then what are you saying about them if they do not do what you say they should?

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Anti-Muslim bigotry is pervasive. [View all] rug Aug 2013 OP

Dawkins is a self-proclaimed anti-theist. And he seems to be an equal opportunity cbayer Aug 2013 #1

He genuinely does not see his anti-Muslim bigotry. rug Aug 2013 #3

Dawkins was correct on the cited issue. longship Aug 2013 #5

Being factually correct about something doesn't make it ok to use it cbayer Aug 2013 #8

What utter crap edhopper Aug 2013 #25

Thank you get the red out Aug 2013 #26

Where did I say that we should not point out the laws that discriminate against women? cbayer Aug 2013 #27

Complex issue. longship Aug 2013 #2

The problem with you arguments, imo, are the over generalizations. cbayer Aug 2013 #4

I can only judge them by their actions, my friend. longship Aug 2013 #10

I think the problem is attributing the behavior to the religion itself. rug Aug 2013 #6

Well, they claimed it was because of their religious beliefs. longship Aug 2013 #11

And this country has invaded how many countries in the name of democracy? rug Aug 2013 #12

Huh? longship Aug 2013 #13

Perhaps I'm simply more skeptical. rug Aug 2013 #14

No problem. longship Aug 2013 #16

Okay. Let me try again here. longship Aug 2013 #15

So the gender segregation did not occur. Good for Krauss for standing firm. rug Aug 2013 #17

Is that supposed to be a characterization of the tweet that Dawkins made? eomer Aug 2013 #31

It's a recitation of that tweet, his comment about Nobel prizes and about a dozen others. rug Aug 2013 #32

I believe you're mistaken about what you said. eomer Aug 2013 #34

Oh, do you think he has not said the rest? rug Aug 2013 #35

The discussion begins at parsing internet posts, actually. eomer Aug 2013 #40

Indeed there are factions. rug Aug 2013 #41

You're extrapolating too much from that short clip. He does recognize factions. eomer Aug 2013 #42

Well, no. He's distinguishing believers from the religion, not factions within the religion. rug Aug 2013 #43

Yes, factions. eomer Aug 2013 #44

The issue is: Does he condemn the entire religion as inherently evil? rug Aug 2013 #45

His problem is with faith, which is foundational to and indivisible from Islam, I would think. eomer Aug 2013 #46

It does constitute an untenable broad brush. rug Aug 2013 #47

Sorry, how is it broad brush? n/t eomer Aug 2013 #48

"All Islam is evil." rug Aug 2013 #49

More nimbleness on your part in understanding what he's saying is IMO what's missing. eomer Aug 2013 #50

He is not criticizing "specific aspects of Islam"; he's criticizing it in toto. rug Aug 2013 #51

I don't believe he criticizes the giving of wealth to the poor and needy. eomer Aug 2013 #52

He approves alms. rug Aug 2013 #53

No, you have it right. It's just that some NEED to hate him, so they misconstrue facts. cleanhippie Aug 2013 #33

Just to be clear, this whole dust up is not just about his response to that one incident. cbayer Aug 2013 #18

Dawkins is always saying provocative things like that. longship Aug 2013 #19

I think they both provide a valuable service in kicking down some doors cbayer Aug 2013 #20

Nobel winners are white because the US wins an awful lot of them. longship Aug 2013 #21

Just because a religious person does something insane, that does cbayer Aug 2013 #22

I know what you are saying here. longship Aug 2013 #23

It seems that we're about to add another, okasha Aug 2013 #28

It's infuriating. rug Aug 2013 #29

Sectarian violence in Iraq killed 969 people in July, a record month. dimbear Aug 2013 #7

Iraqis are overwhelmingly Muslim. Perhaps you meant anti-Sunni sentiments. rug Aug 2013 #9

There are Muslims, many in fact, who can see that Islam is problematic. dimbear Aug 2013 #24

So, Muslims should renounce Islam since it's problematic. rug Aug 2013 #30

Renounce, reform, review, rework............ there are lots of solutions. dimbear Aug 2013 #36

In that case, you must not consider it inherently evil and harmful. rug Aug 2013 #37

Inherently harmful things harm everything they inhabit, that's the definition. dimbear Aug 2013 #38

You're such an accommodationist. rug Aug 2013 #39

I don't know about his, but it's certainly mine. Donald Ian Rankin Aug 2013 #55

This sentence of yours has a certain hortatory quality. rug Aug 2013 #56

I'm saying that they hold immoral beliefs on certain issues. Donald Ian Rankin Aug 2013 #58

And what should happen to them if they do not do as they should? rug Aug 2013 #59

Depends on the scale. Donald Ian Rankin Aug 2013 #60

I think he makes some good points, and has clearly thought this through, but makes several mistakes Donald Ian Rankin Aug 2013 #54

Solid points, all. rug Aug 2013 #57