Religion

no_hypocrisy

(54,977 posts)

92. It's a classic dicotomy of whether something is "right" and true if I think it is and if it truly is

Sat Aug 31, 2013, 09:06 AM

Aug 2013

I use my own values to make my decisions. I include those values when I teach but I don't find the need to promulgate them as the exclusive standard. I'll defend my humanism/atheism/freethought principles where it's appropriate without being defensive.

My brother is a Sufi. My first cousin once removed is a born again Christian and minister. Do I want to join them on their religious paths? No. But I also don't find a need to engage in our differences unless it's going to be an intellectual discourse.

It's too black-and-white to format the issue of being religious and non-religious into "right-and-wrong". There are nuances and some small agreements. And then there are principles that are never going to blend.

I don't think of others as "wrong" to my "right". All I ask is that I'm not compelled to think as they do.

Die Gedanken Sind Frei (My Thoughts Are Free):

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To my fellow atheist, do you think believers just wrong? [View all] edhopper Aug 2013 OP

I don't see anything controversial in the idea that an atheist thinks believers are wrong about god. enough Aug 2013 #1

And a secular society edhopper Aug 2013 #2

Why does there need to be a "right" or "wrong"? murray hill farm Aug 2013 #3

Why don't you care edhopper Aug 2013 #8

I don't believe that my idiologies or lack of them are either right or wrong.. murray hill farm Aug 2013 #13

Yes edhopper Aug 2013 #14

And will you care when religious fundamentalists manage to ban abortion AtheistCrusader Aug 2013 #88

Never going to happen. They have been trying for a very long time. cbayer Aug 2013 #101

Have you been living under a rock? States all over have instituted de-facto abortion bans cleanhippie Aug 2013 #104

They have made considerable progress in just the last year. AtheistCrusader Aug 2013 #116

There have been some inroads in some states, but I think it will be reversed over time. cbayer Aug 2013 #119

Then you are part of the problem. AtheistCrusader Sep 2013 #131

Lol~ I am part of the problem? cbayer Sep 2013 #137

Yes, part of the problem. AtheistCrusader Sep 2013 #143

Oh, back off. You have no idea what I do or don't do. cbayer Sep 2013 #147

I know you dismiss and minimize the current fight on for reproductive freedom AtheistCrusader Sep 2013 #158

You make assumptions that are incorrect. cbayer Sep 2013 #159

It is very close to 50/50 edhopper Sep 2013 #162

They were your words. AtheistCrusader Sep 2013 #163

Right vs. Wrong on the *effects* of believing is where I stop Lemonwurst Aug 2013 #71

Yes, how dare we suggest others might be wrong. trotsky Aug 2013 #16

Simple; if their god existed, he could stop abortion him or herself. AtheistCrusader Aug 2013 #89

I care, because people like to legislate upon their religious beliefs. AtheistCrusader Aug 2013 #87

And yet here you are hanging out in the religion group. cbayer Aug 2013 #103

And? AtheistCrusader Aug 2013 #117

I didn't say you didn't have the right to post here. You most certainly do. cbayer Aug 2013 #118

You know, believers spend time talking to non-belivers too. AtheistCrusader Sep 2013 #130

I think someone who is really hostile towards non-believers probably cbayer Sep 2013 #136

I don't understand why you asked the original question in the first place. AtheistCrusader Sep 2013 #142

What original question are you talking about? cbayer Sep 2013 #146

This. AtheistCrusader Sep 2013 #157

You obviously love tussling when it comes to religion. cbayer Sep 2013 #160

Keep their religion to themselves within the scope of the law. AtheistCrusader Sep 2013 #161

I don't think it is possible to seperate the two edhopper Sep 2013 #164

I tend to agree, that is the reality of it. AtheistCrusader Sep 2013 #165

It is a matter of venue edhopper Sep 2013 #166

Frankly, the "why not question it quietly" argument sounds a lot like... LibAsHell Sep 2013 #128

I don't think that's a philosophically sound position Proud Public Servant Aug 2013 #4

Disagree with that edhopper Aug 2013 #7

Incorrect Promethean Aug 2013 #48

I get it, but not absence of evidence Proud Public Servant Aug 2013 #68

In this case, it is reasonable to say that it is. cleanhippie Aug 2013 #105

You're assuming that the only two possibilities okasha Aug 2013 #107

Do Protestants think Catholics are just wrong? Do they both think that about Muslims who Bluenorthwest Aug 2013 #5

It is a generality edhopper Aug 2013 #9

Protestants and Catholics used to kill each other over what edition of the bible got taught in schoo AtheistCrusader Aug 2013 #90

Could this be a version of strict atheism vs agnosticism. longship Aug 2013 #6

I don't disagree edhopper Aug 2013 #10

No, they are not "wrong" for their beliefs. Starboard Tack Aug 2013 #11

Are you answering that edhopper Aug 2013 #12

Yes Starboard Tack Aug 2013 #62

I think there is a wording difference between you and the OP. Goblinmonger Aug 2013 #17

Thank you edhopper Aug 2013 #18

I disagree with you assertion that they are not wrong in their beliefs. DrewFlorida Aug 2013 #21

I don't believe there is a god either, at least not for me. Starboard Tack Aug 2013 #63

Many people declare something as their belief, but their actions don't match their beliefs. DrewFlorida Aug 2013 #22

Best to judge peole by their actions, rather than by the beliefs they declare. Starboard Tack Aug 2013 #65

Yep. trotsky Aug 2013 #15

Interesting questions to think about QSkier Aug 2013 #19

I think believers have a certain arrogance to think they know it all. DrewFlorida Aug 2013 #20

Could not that same argument be applied to non-believers that think they know it all? cbayer Aug 2013 #23

Well certain things don't need to be looked at once the question is moot edhopper Aug 2013 #24

The whole question of whether there is a god or not is moot. cbayer Aug 2013 #25

nothing arrogant about that reply CBGLuthier Aug 2013 #26

Things we no longer need to question. edhopper Aug 2013 #41

Yes, what you propose is true, but that wasn't the question posed by this thread. DrewFlorida Aug 2013 #34

But it is very much the question posted by this thread. cbayer Aug 2013 #52

I for one am not saying I don't know edhopper Aug 2013 #57

A high probability of certainty? Really? cbayer Aug 2013 #59

After several edhopper Aug 2013 #67

No one is asking that you accept a god. cbayer Aug 2013 #69

the universe I know has an objective truth edhopper Aug 2013 #86

The critical words here are "I know" cbayer Aug 2013 #99

God of the gaps is edhopper Aug 2013 #122

I agree that god of the gaps is a flimsy argument. cbayer Sep 2013 #135

and bigfoot hunters can still look for bigfoot edhopper Sep 2013 #140

So what? Let them look if it rings their bell. cbayer Sep 2013 #145

Because people who have false beliefs edhopper Sep 2013 #151

OMG, talk about believing in myths, you are absolutely convinced that you are right here. cbayer Sep 2013 #155

The point edhopper Sep 2013 #156

Tell me Cybar, do you believe Jesus was God's only son..... DrewFlorida Aug 2013 #64

Why does it matter what I do or don't believe? cbayer Aug 2013 #70

This is not my definition. DrewFlorida Aug 2013 #72

No, it is your definition. cbayer Aug 2013 #74

Yes, when my actions don't fit my stated beliefs, that means I don't believe my statement. DrewFlorida Aug 2013 #75

So, let me ask you this. cbayer Aug 2013 #77

Well said. Manifestor_of_Light Aug 2013 #79

This is a caricature of Christianity. LTX Aug 2013 #97

No, you don't know that someone doesn't believe okasha Aug 2013 #108

I have met precious few Atheists that positively declare there is no god. AtheistCrusader Aug 2013 #91

I do declare, with a high probability of certainty edhopper Aug 2013 #94

Declare is it now? Don't we need some fanfare and other assorted regalia? cbayer Aug 2013 #102

Paul is also fond of that verb. okasha Aug 2013 #110

That is precisely the problem with religion. AtheistCrusader Aug 2013 #114

Agree. It's a bad answer, just as saying that one has failed to find evidence proves that something cbayer Aug 2013 #121

Depends on why you were seeking it in the first place. AtheistCrusader Sep 2013 #132

See, I don't give a shit if there is an invisible pink firebreathing dragon in your garage. cbayer Sep 2013 #138

so you actually accept the possibility edhopper Sep 2013 #141

Let me make this crystal clear - I don't care. cbayer Sep 2013 #148

And you don't care to edhopper Sep 2013 #150

I don't care to inquire into whether god is real or not. cbayer Sep 2013 #152

Because belief is not a vacuum edhopper Sep 2013 #154

Would it be bothering you if I tried to pass laws getting the invisible pink AtheistCrusader Sep 2013 #144

Yes it would., just as it bothers me that god is mentioned on those things. cbayer Sep 2013 #149

So when people with beliefs you oppose edhopper Sep 2013 #153

We agree. AtheistCrusader Aug 2013 #113

I agree. I also have met very few. cbayer Aug 2013 #100

I accept that an omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent being that does not wish to be perceived AtheistCrusader Aug 2013 #115

Sounds reasonable to me. cbayer Aug 2013 #120

i should amend my declaration edhopper Aug 2013 #123

Excellent point. AtheistCrusader Sep 2013 #133

Great post. nt raccoon Aug 2013 #76

I am an agnostic, because I see no evidence of a deity but not certainty that one does not exist. Agnosticsherbet Aug 2013 #27

Yep, they're wrong. dballance Aug 2013 #28

Tax the Churches DontTreadOnMe Aug 2013 #29

Not OT edhopper Aug 2013 #38

It doesn't matter whether I'm right or they're right. no_hypocrisy Aug 2013 #30

So you have no opinion edhopper Aug 2013 #36

It's a classic dicotomy of whether something is "right" and true if I think it is and if it truly is no_hypocrisy Aug 2013 #92

I think I understand your view. edhopper Aug 2013 #93

I'll try to specifically address your premise. no_hypocrisy Aug 2013 #95

Thanks edhopper Aug 2013 #96

I'm a combination no_hypocrisy Aug 2013 #98

I'm in line with the OP, and several other notables posted here. immoderate Aug 2013 #31

I *believe* that people who believe in god(s) are flatly wrong . . . MrModerate Aug 2013 #32

"more concerned about the negative effects of religion than the negative effects of faith" QSkier Aug 2013 #35

I think he means edhopper Aug 2013 #37

Being a believer in the supernatural is a disordered state of mind . . . MrModerate Aug 2013 #45

Oh, I think a lot of edhopper Aug 2013 #46

Yes, they are wrong DavidDvorkin Aug 2013 #33

Everyone who has any view at all about religion believes that someone else is wrong. eomer Aug 2013 #39

Well a true agnostic edhopper Aug 2013 #40

If they "think that answer is unknowable"... eomer Aug 2013 #42

Edhopper asks us what we think, I for one think the believers are wrong. dimbear Aug 2013 #43

What do I think as an atheist? LostOne4Ever Aug 2013 #44

Thanks for the reply edhopper Aug 2013 #47

I did not mean to nit-pick LostOne4Ever Aug 2013 #80

i think the use here is belief based on faith as in religion edhopper Aug 2013 #124

+1 - excellent answer cbayer Aug 2013 #61

Thank you! LostOne4Ever Aug 2013 #81

I'm really enjoying your participation here. cbayer Aug 2013 #82

Again thank you! LostOne4Ever Aug 2013 #84

Though we've disagreed, sometimes sharply, okasha Aug 2013 #109

Just because we disagree LostOne4Ever Aug 2013 #111

I've probably been a nerd okasha Aug 2013 #112

Well..... WovenGems Aug 2013 #49

So your saying edhopper Aug 2013 #50

Alot of Atheists evangelize about their own brand of faith more than believers wercal Aug 2013 #51

Absurdly untrue edhopper Aug 2013 #54

How the heck would I know wercal Aug 2013 #78

thanks for the longer reply edhopper Aug 2013 #85

I stand by Wheaton's Law Drale Aug 2013 #53

But do you think there is validity to their faith edhopper Aug 2013 #55

It really doesn't matter what I think Drale Aug 2013 #56

Does it matter to you what you think. edhopper Aug 2013 #58

But I did answer the question Drale Aug 2013 #60

The question is edhopper Aug 2013 #66

Message auto-removed Name removed Aug 2013 #73

Yes Laochtine Aug 2013 #83

Yes rock Aug 2013 #106

All believers ultimately worship themselves while proclaiming humility... Humanist_Activist Sep 2013 #125

I think it's reasonable to say they are most likely wrong LibAsHell Sep 2013 #126

No, I think it's a lot more complicated than that Warpy Sep 2013 #127

Nothing supernatural exists. Deep13 Sep 2013 #129

At this point our science may not have advanced far enough to prove beyond a doubt ... spin Sep 2013 #134

just God of the gaps again. edhopper Sep 2013 #139

I believe we should have single payer healthcare edhopper Sep 2013 #167

You have completely moved the goalposts here. cbayer Sep 2013 #168

We obviously differ there edhopper Sep 2013 #169

I never said that the existence of god should be in a different category, but cbayer Sep 2013 #170

That's fine edhopper Sep 2013 #171

militants MFM008 Sep 2013 #172

hmmm edhopper Sep 2013 #173