Religion

struggle4progress

(126,605 posts)

82. Your rhetoric suggests that from your conviction, that the Jesus stories are nonsense, you conclude

Fri Oct 11, 2013, 05:14 PM

Oct 2013

that the appropriate response is to spout nonsense of your own

If that is, in fact, your stance then I can't see much prospect for useful conversation

I think I've repeatedly made clear in this group my own position that these stories cannot defensibly be read as historical texts or as scientific texts and that in my understanding they have other objectives. I think I've also repeatedly made clear that I believe there are profitable readings of the texts from a atheistic-materialistic perspective

You are not obliged, of course, to accept my views on such matters

But if your approach will be to promote amateur conspiracy theories, of the Atwill sort, from which none of us can really learn much, and to justify this only by sneering that you consider religion kookier than Atwill's swill, then IMO you are not really interested to see where we might agree or how we might think productively about the world we both inhabit

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Ancient Confession Found: 'We Invented Jesus Christ' [View all] cleanhippie Oct 2013 OP

I believe there really was a Jesus Christ fitman Oct 2013 #1

That's nice. If shown to be false will you continue to believe that? cleanhippie Oct 2013 #5

I'm basically agnostic fitman Oct 2013 #7

I understand. Yet, if shown to be a total fabrication, as is asserted, will you continue cleanhippie Oct 2013 #11

If beyond all doubt I would not believe he was a real person fitman Oct 2013 #17

Fair enough. cleanhippie Oct 2013 #18

I agree. roguevalley Oct 2013 #57

Yes, Jesus of Nazareth. mmonk Oct 2013 #77

Jesus likely didn't exist... but this is total bullshit. Schema Thing Oct 2013 #2

What is total bullshit? cleanhippie Oct 2013 #6

Even if they expose the hoax, it will affect belief very little. immoderate Oct 2013 #3

He "asserts that Christianity" began as "a kind of propaganda ... to pacify" the Roman subjects AnotherMcIntosh Oct 2013 #4

Well done. russspeakeasy Oct 2013 #9

Interesting, indeed� Champion Jack Oct 2013 #8

Having read the article, I thnk the title is a bit hyperbolic. Agnosticsherbet Oct 2013 #10

So The Jesus burning on the cross was a kind of false flag operation? mindwalker_i Oct 2013 #12

No, most likely just a total fabrication. cleanhippie Oct 2013 #15

burning? Warren Stupidity Oct 2013 #20

Well if The Jesus was just a made-up thing mindwalker_i Oct 2013 #22

+1 cleanhippie Oct 2013 #31

The KKK burn crosses, not the Romans. truebluegreen Oct 2013 #56

To be fair, there aren't a lof of Romans to burn any more mindwalker_i Oct 2013 #62

old news for some.... heres a great site about the "history" of jesus boomer55 Oct 2013 #13

The bible was written 250 yrs after it supposed happened. Archaeologists, anthropoligists, Welibs Oct 2013 #14

"tools, artifacts, entire cities, frozen bodies, bones dating back 240 million years." Really? cleanhippie Oct 2013 #16

My interpretation is that 240 m.y. refers to "bones" not e.g. "entire cities". Warren Stupidity Oct 2013 #21

Human bones? cleanhippie Oct 2013 #23

no, just "bones". Warren Stupidity Oct 2013 #24

IIRC, the human species is only 100,000 years old or so. n/t backscatter712 Oct 2013 #73

That's what I thought, too. cleanhippie Oct 2013 #74

240 million years?? fitman Oct 2013 #19

You Are Claiming The the Bible On the Road Oct 2013 #79

Do you believe this information Dorian Gray Oct 2013 #25

How can I? He hasn't presented his evidence yet. cleanhippie Oct 2013 #26

Maybe David Icke will be there! cbayer Oct 2013 #27

The GOP will love this. Turbineguy Oct 2013 #28

One would have to see the evidence, but it sounds intriguing riqster Oct 2013 #29

Well, it's certainly a more-plausible explanation than believing all the supernatural hokum stopbush Oct 2013 #30

Oh this discredited dreck again. rug Oct 2013 #32

Good catch (nt) UrbScotty Oct 2013 #33

Here you go. cbayer Oct 2013 #34

Is it possible that that was not really him? cleanhippie Oct 2013 #36

His reply to me didn't really make any sense, as far as I can tell muriel_volestrangler Oct 2013 #47

I think you scared him because you know more than he does. cbayer Oct 2013 #48

Well, I guess we will see if/when he shows his "evidence." cleanhippie Oct 2013 #35

He's been "showing" it for years. Only the gullible buy it. rug Oct 2013 #37

"Only the gullible buy it." I think that's his point. cleanhippie Oct 2013 #38

I'll spot you �25.00 if you're short. rug Oct 2013 #39

You're so very generous. cleanhippie Oct 2013 #43

Shucks, I had gotten all excited, had looked the book up in Amazon, my balloon is popped!1 n/t UTUSN Oct 2013 #78

If Josephus wanted to invent Christianity, On the Road Oct 2013 #40

The core of Paul's letter is universally considered genuine............ dimbear Oct 2013 #44

Well, If Anyone Invented Them It Would Have Been Marcion On the Road Oct 2013 #55

I have a definite soft spot for Marcion. Around 150 CE, his brand of Christianity was the dimbear Oct 2013 #64

If You Like Marcion, You Might Appreciate This Site On the Road Oct 2013 #69

Bookmarked as very interesting. Meanwhile, have you looked at Bruce Brooks and his dimbear Oct 2013 #75

Not to mention that the letters of "Paul" Pab Sungenis Oct 2013 #76

It is possible that Jesus was a real man who started a religion the Romans found convenient leveymg Oct 2013 #52

The Way That the Romans Spread Religious Pacificism On the Road Oct 2013 #63

Should be interesting to see what they come up with. I don't think it will change my faith and it hrmjustin Oct 2013 #41

Your link is a press release; the event advertised is styled "Is Christianity the genesis of struggle4progress Oct 2013 #42

I fear the timing is off some. More likely 3rd/4th century Romans picked and chose what they liked dimbear Oct 2013 #45

At that point the Romans had already been using religion to unite their empire truebluegreen Oct 2013 #54

The Roman Empire was in a state of crisis for much of the Third and Fourth Centuries, so struggle4progress Oct 2013 #65

As I heard it, the Sasanids play quite an important part in western history. Constantine admired dimbear Oct 2013 #67

Not particularly new. Manifestor_of_Light Oct 2013 #46

No, Jesus does not have "identical characteristics" okasha Oct 2013 #87

I don't understand the need for Rome to invent Jesus, particularly since it kinda backfired... Humanist_Activist Oct 2013 #49

How did the "Render unto Caesar ..." approach backfire against Rome? AnotherMcIntosh Oct 2013 #58

Not quite true, first off, Jesus Christ didn't become prominent until a century later... Humanist_Activist Oct 2013 #68

If you are committed to the premise that "he lived," then you can apply your own logic to AnotherMcIntosh Oct 2013 #70

Actually, I doubt Jesus existed as portrayed in the Gospels... Humanist_Activist Oct 2013 #71

Jesus Mythbusting struggle4progress Oct 2013 #50

"scholars ... sometimes turn out to be fakes". But Holy water is real? AnotherMcIntosh Oct 2013 #59

"allegedly new and exciting sources ... sometimes turn out to be fakes" would be my reading struggle4progress Oct 2013 #60

If Marco Polo's Holy water was good enough for the Kublai Khan, why not you? AnotherMcIntosh Oct 2013 #66

You'll have to forgive me for not having much of an opinion about a conversation struggle4progress Oct 2013 #72

It is true that Atwill only attended "a Jesuit Military Academy" and had no real scholarly cred but grantcart Oct 2013 #84

To be fair, he was up half the night underlining the Gideon Bible with crayons. rug Oct 2013 #85

Sorry, but if there really were good evidence for that... Deep13 Oct 2013 #51

Or at least published by a genuine publisher instead of self-published thru a vanity press struggle4progress Oct 2013 #61

Nail, head. okasha Oct 2013 #90

Alas! How dreary would the world be if there were no Jesus. eShirl Oct 2013 #53

Sorry Virginia, but it was your parents all along. Deep13 Oct 2013 #93

... Atwill's theory is one of the sillier ones at the kooky end of the Jesus Myther spectrum. It's struggle4progress Oct 2013 #80

As silly as the one where Jesus is killed then resurrected? cleanhippie Oct 2013 #81

Your rhetoric suggests that from your conviction, that the Jesus stories are nonsense, you conclude struggle4progress Oct 2013 #82

The captivity of confirmation bias is dismaying to behold. rug Oct 2013 #83

Selective Skepticism struggle4progress Oct 2013 #91

Dawkins follows up: dimbear Oct 2013 #92

Is that the first time he's stated "I'm not qualified" in regard to anything concerning religion? rug Oct 2013 #94

I don't have the mad google skills of some of our members, but a few clicks shows that no, dimbear Oct 2013 #95

The point is that skepticscott Oct 2013 #86

I do not understand this idea that, if one thinks someone else is misleading the public struggle4progress Oct 2013 #88

Clearly you don't understand it skepticscott Oct 2013 #89