Cross-post from Religion: Pope Francis: Kids Must Have Moms and Dads

[Goacher]

44. I'm not sure at this point, either

This has been an interesting experiment, though

I mean, I don't know, I think my behavior in this thread and group has been pretty exemplary, although you (or anyone, really) can tell me otherwise

But some of the things I'm thinking will probably come across as pretty disagreeable. I'm not sure if there's another way to put this stuff but I'll try my best

1. In the original thread that gave birth to this thread (http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1218&pid=122885) Starboard Tack argued that this is a "a problem for Catholics to deal with." I can't really support that because - and there's no way to avoid this - since I am a homosexual the Pope was talking about me and my family. Doing so most definitely makes it my business, and not saying anything isn't an option. I found the Pope's statements objectionable and I can't pretend otherwise

2. On the other hand, I feel like raising an objection doesn't really help. If I say how I really feel, which is that Pope Francis is a bigot - or at the very least expressing a bigoted viewpoint - that quickly gets derailed as insensitive, anti-Catholic and even, as one posted put it, "stupid." So...

3. The only other possibility, maybe, is to encourage (prod? pester?) Catholics to discuss pronouncements like the Pope made amongst themselves. Which led to this
thread... but so far it's mostly been myself and Rug chatting, as opposed to Catholics discussing with other Catholics, which is what I was really hoping for. I suppose the only available explanation was provided by Fortinbras Armstrong when he said that the Advocate piece was a "non-story; which is why it was not brought up in this group."

I guess the upshot is that... and I'm thinking out loud... for most Catholics, gay issues just aren't a big priority, or at least not anything they feel a strong personal investment in. I mean, even Fortinbras says that he has a gay brother... and yet also says that he "doesn't have a dog in this hunt." I would've thought that having a gay brother would be a pretty significant dog in the hunt..?

And, even for those Catholics who do have an emotional investment in gay rights and want their church to be more inclusive... there really isn't a clear avenue for change. As others have pointed out, the Catholic church isn't a democracy. People don't get to vote... So the only option is to wait and see if the hierarchy can be more reflective of the laity. And we know (and you yourself said) that change in the Catholic church requires a very, very, very long time. Even in the case of evolution (which I was discussing with Rug somewhere upstream) it took the church 140 years to come around on that, and, for that matter, the church never even condemned evolution

I suppose for heterosexual Catholics (and maybe even some gay Catholics) that's sufficient, but for the rest of us it feels like we're back to justice delayed is justice denied

So... I dunno. It doesn't seem like there are a lot of possibilities here. I think we're communicating somewhat but the conclusions aren't too optimistic

I guess all we can do is be as pleasant to each other as possible since, we are, after all, allies on some other topics (heck, I was in favor of Pope Benedict's critique of capitalism) but on this we just strongly, vastly disagree on what's really important and at stake