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caraher

(6,278 posts)
11. Coincidence count rates from downconversion vary a LOT
Sun Jul 21, 2013, 03:02 PM
Jul 2013

I've done experiments where I've had over 100,000 coincidences/second and ones with a few hundred per second. A lot depends on exactly how you get the photons to your detectors, wavelength, pump powers, and exactly what your experiment is.

What detectors are you using? I have some "bare" Perkin-Elmer/Pacer SPCMs and those can a pain to work with because the active area of the detector is a square region about 180 microns on a side. Sounds like the same detectors you're looking at. This means you need to use a short focal length lens and you should have some way of translating either the lens or the detector transverse to the beam. I'd say you'd be very luck to get 200 coincidences per second without lenses in place. Bear in mind that a downconverted beam is not going to look like a collimated laser. The usual BBO crystal pairs companies like Newlight sell give you same-wavelength pairs that come out along a 3 degree cone, and that cone spreads with distance. That can be another big source of variability in detection rates - whether you do anything to collimate that beam. For most simple Bell Inequality test experiments it's not necessary.

Especially if you're a beginner, it's better to pay extra for the fiber-coupled detectors. Also, the usual SPCMs have 70% efficiency at around 700 nm; at 810, you're going to be under 60%, which is still quite good.

Either way, it's very helpful to have a visible alignment laser to set things up. Kiko Galvez has some nice tricks and tips on doing alignment. His lab manual also includes some experiments using the Mach-Zehnder, and I think some tips on aligning it but especially finding the equal-delay position (if you have a grating spectrometer, like Ocean Optics sells, there's a neat trick using white light fringes that gets you close enough).

Back-calculating from your numbers, it sounds like you're planning to use a 250 mW diode laser at (nominally) 405 nm? Don't order your BBO until you have your laser, because anything with that much power is likely not to be single mode and probably doesn't operate at exactly 405. It's better to measure your laser's wavelength (and possibly its bandwidth) so they can cut your crystal at the right angle. It's not a huge problem if your laser is, say, 407 nm instead, because you can just tilt your crystals to achieve phase matching, but it just becomes one more thing to fiddle with, and it's probably more of a hassle if you're using the 2-crystal Type I phase matching scheme because your "tuning" tilt has to happen in the plane of the pump laser (which is typically set 45 degrees from vertical/horizontal).

One thing you haven't touched on much is the bandwidth of the downconverted photons. It's hard to assess guesstimates about how "bright" a downconversion source will be from rules-of-thumb like N pairs per second per mW pump power because how many of those you can "use" depends on the bandwidth of the pump laser, its spatial mode, what degree of entanglement you want (in the 2-crystal scheme, the degree of entanglement depends on how well the cone giving you pairs with one polarization overlaps the cone giving you pairs with the orthogonal polarization; you can make gobs of pairs and have poor entanglement!), and how much bandwidth you want in the downconverted beam. In the experiment I've been doing I have bandpass filters that introduce significant loss even within the band of wavelengths they pass (typically 70-80% transmission for a good filter) with passband widths of 10, 20 and 40 nm. It's pretty close to a factor of 10 loss in coincidence rate going from my 40 nm filter to the 10 nm filter, and some people use filters as tight as 1 nm depending on the experiment.

I'll have to come back to your post later to sift through more of the details. The main thing with count rates is to have some notion of what you really need them to be relative to the experimental noise. The good news is that your dark count rates probably won't cause a problem, because that won't really affect your coincidence rates. The rule of thumb for "random" coincidences is that they occur at a rate equal to the product of your single-detector rates times your coincidence window width. If the latter is 10 ns, that gives a randoms rate of 200 * 200 * 10^-8 = 4 x 10^-4, far less than one count per second. But you can get significant rates of accidental coincidences from detection of stray light, etc.

This is me after reading your post : darkangel218 Jul 2013 #1
Oh, sorry about that mindwalker_i Jul 2013 #2
Nooo, its my fault. darkangel218 Jul 2013 #3
This message was self-deleted by its author cstanleytech May 2015 #91
I understood every bit of it... nebenaube Jul 2013 #4
Mach-Zehnder interferometers are interesting mindwalker_i Jul 2013 #5
knowing they exist and know what everyone else calls them are two different things. nebenaube Jul 2013 #6
Off the shelf? mindwalker_i Jul 2013 #7
I don't see why what I need would be any bigger then say a .22 slug (for lack of a better reference) nebenaube Jul 2013 #37
See my post currently at the bottom mindwalker_i Jul 2013 #39
Hey, so are you doing this on your own dime? napoleon_in_rags Jul 2013 #8
Pick up that book he mentioned caraher Jul 2013 #9
You're at Powell's in Portland? I'm jealous. napoleon_in_rags Jul 2013 #10
Yeah me too mindwalker_i Jul 2013 #17
I was on Tuesday caraher Jul 2013 #12
BTW, this is still pricey stuff caraher Jul 2013 #13
Youre plan isn't mad, its pure genius. Set up a chemistry lab too. napoleon_in_rags Jul 2013 #14
I gotta say it again - genius. napoleon_in_rags Jul 2013 #15
In chemistry they worry a lot about "technique" caraher Jul 2013 #16
That's how I would start if I were you. napoleon_in_rags Jul 2013 #18
Yeah, I'm doing it on my own dime mindwalker_i Jul 2013 #19
Okay, thanks for that info. Question 2: napoleon_in_rags Jul 2013 #21
Yes, I think it's possible mindwalker_i Jul 2013 #22
Interesting results are good. But be careful young mindwalker.... napoleon_in_rags Jul 2013 #23
Interesting take mindwalker_i Jul 2013 #24
"keep in mind that quantum encryption exists" napoleon_in_rags Jul 2013 #25
Snowden leaked that the govt. is tapping everything mindwalker_i Jul 2013 #26
What's available now is quantum-secured distribution of encryption keys caraher Jul 2013 #28
I think I switched topics without telling anyone mindwalker_i Jul 2013 #31
Aw-ight, sir. napoleon_in_rags Jul 2013 #30
That online lab is a really interesting idea mindwalker_i Jul 2013 #32
It would be a big money saver for all interested. napoleon_in_rags Jul 2013 #33
Sounds like handy stuff caraher Jul 2013 #35
I don't think this can work, but... caraher Jul 2013 #27
But discussing/arguing about it can be fun too mindwalker_i Jul 2013 #36
Part of it is preserving causality caraher Jul 2013 #41
Nature seemed pretty good at enforcing Newton's laws mindwalker_i Jul 2013 #42
I think the Excelitas detectors for education have a 500 Hz dark count rate caraher Jul 2013 #29
Coincidence count rates from downconversion vary a LOT caraher Jul 2013 #11
That's a log of really good information! mindwalker_i Jul 2013 #20
I'm slowly figuring out what you're doing... caraher Jul 2013 #34
Sir, you've just saved me a LOT of pain mindwalker_i Jul 2013 #38
I do want to think a bit more about your experiment... caraher Jul 2013 #40
I just added your message to my file :) mindwalker_i Jul 2013 #43
Well, what I was getting at is only partially-baked caraher Jul 2013 #44
OK, I get it now caraher Jul 2013 #45
I think my explanation isn't quite right, but close caraher Jul 2013 #47
I'm going to have to read through this a few times mindwalker_i Jul 2013 #49
To be clear... caraher Jul 2013 #53
Any progress on the experiment? idkiigmy May 2014 #70
I'm halfway through the Ellerman paper caraher May 2014 #71
First of all, thanks for the links! mindwalker_i May 2014 #72
Cool, keep us posted idkiigmy May 2014 #73
I've already bought the most expensive equipment (I hope) mindwalker_i May 2014 #74
Good mounting hardware helps immensely caraher May 2014 #77
Sorry for he late reply, bu yeah, I've been working with an optical breadboard mindwalker_i May 2014 #79
I might get one of those Sherlines someday caraher May 2014 #80
I like their stuff a lot mindwalker_i May 2014 #81
I actually find aluminum easier to machine than plastic caraher May 2014 #82
So... maybe you should use collinear Type II? caraher Jul 2013 #46
Type II Collinear? mindwalker_i Jul 2013 #48
Ok, I see basically what this is mindwalker_i Jul 2013 #50
Close caraher Jul 2013 #54
Looking at NewLight's site mindwalker_i Jul 2013 #55
You should talk to their sales engineer caraher Jul 2013 #56
Cool! Yeah, I've been e-mailing Jean as well mindwalker_i Jul 2013 #57
a factoid caraher Jul 2013 #58
2000/milliwatt is really good mindwalker_i Jul 2013 #59
Since you're an electronics person... caraher Jul 2013 #60
I've worked with LabView before mindwalker_i Jul 2013 #61
I think that's right caraher Jul 2013 #62
One more thought... caraher Jul 2013 #68
Interesting! This just further solidifies my determination mindwalker_i Jul 2013 #69
The link to Chapter 4 of "this dissertation" does not work for me mindwalker_i Jul 2013 #63
The link is to the full dissertation caraher Jul 2013 #64
I found a much better piece caraher Jul 2013 #65
That workd, thanks again!!! mindwalker_i Jul 2013 #66
OK, but see my other post caraher Jul 2013 #67
Have you checked the fuses? Eddie Haskell Jul 2013 #51
Uhm, what? mindwalker_i Jul 2013 #52
My intuition tells me the past and the future are rather symmetrical about any local present. hunter May 2014 #75
Thank you! I'm a bit surprised at the attention it's gotten as of late mindwalker_i May 2014 #76
You should definitely read the Ellerman paper posted upthread caraher May 2014 #78
Fascinating read. drm604 May 2014 #83
Thank you for your interest mindwalker_i May 2014 #84
To be clear, I wasn't suggesting that you are a quack, you obviously have some knowledge. drm604 May 2014 #85
Oh I didn't think you were saying I was a quack mindwalker_i May 2014 #86
I haven't programmed at the hardware level in decades. drm604 May 2014 #87
Oh now you've done it mindwalker_i May 2014 #88
Maybe it can break locally. drm604 May 2014 #89
entanglement project mindwalker xoliver May 2015 #90
entanglement project mindwalker_i May 2015 #92
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