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RandySF

(87,457 posts)
Sun Jun 28, 2015, 12:54 AM Jun 2015

Are killer whales persons? [View all]

That is the essence of the challenge the killer whales pose to humans, especially those humans who hold them captive. But it is also a larger challenge to all of us, especially if we endeavor to take our role as stewards of the world in which we live seriously. It is a strange and alien concept in a world dominated by Western thought, in which humans have historically been regarded as exceptional beings apart from nature and in which all nonhuman occupants of the world are considered animals, at best property and at worst vermin, the extermination of which is required for the sake of human well-beings.

“Right now, there is no one besides a human who is a person,” says dolphin scientist and ethicist Lori Marino. “They’re all property, no matter how complex they are, no matter how much we love them. They have no inherent rights of their own.”

Yet the more we learn about dolphins in general, and killer whales in particular, the more that our assumption of innate superiority looks like a presumption. Orcas, with their big brains, complex social structures, mysterious communications, and mind-boggling sixth sense, by their very existence, challenge the long-standing belief that human beings are the planet’s only intelligent occupants. Social life for killer whales, as we have seen, is deeper and more omnipresent than it is for humans; their identities are defined by their families and tribal connections; and their empathy is powerful enough to extend to other species. If orcas have established empathy as a distinctive evolutionary advantage, it might behoove a human race awash in war and psychopathy to pay attention.

We’ve also learned that these creatures have rich emotional lives. Their brains are extremely developed in the areas associated with emotional learning, and their tight social arrangement, in which family bonds remain for life, is complex and sophisticated. They also have a demonstrated capacity for empathy. Nor, for that matter, is this only true of dolphins and cetaceans generally. The more we learn about a number of creatures that have always been deemed non-persons by dint of their nonhuman status, the more their emotional lives are being revealed: chimpanzees and all the great apes, elephants, even cats and dogs and pigs and cattle, all have more developed emotional centers than we had previously supposed.


http://www.salon.com/2015/06/27/are_killer_whales_persons_the_more_we_learn_about_orcas_the_more_our_assumption_of_innate_superiority_looks_like_a_presumption/

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Are killer whales persons? [View all] RandySF Jun 2015 OP
Yes, deathrind Jun 2015 #1
No modern and forethinking definition of "person" would require "human only". nt greyl Jun 2015 #2
+1 n/t Alkene Jun 2015 #12
I don't think they are persons. MADem Jun 2015 #3
What's your definition of person? greyl Jun 2015 #5
Let's start with the obvious...they need to be homo sapiens. MADem Jun 2015 #8
Obvious in an infantile sense, maybe, but not justified. That's a foregone conclusion. nt greyl Jun 2015 #11
I come from the "words have meanings" school of thought. MADem Jun 2015 #14
Like I don't? greyl Jun 2015 #16
I'm rather surprised that you're taking offense, given you MADem Jun 2015 #17
Right, you couldn't imagine... nt greyl Jun 2015 #18
Quite right--I couldn't. I don't see a need for name calling simply MADem Jun 2015 #19
Hate to break this to you... you aren't a homo sapiens. DetlefK Jun 2015 #27
I'm from multiple regions, not just Europe, though I have some MADem Jun 2015 #28
Can you prove that you are a person? DetlefK Jun 2015 #29
I think it depends on how we define personhood. RandySF Jun 2015 #6
Well, then they are self-actualized beings who are dolphins, then--but not MADem Jun 2015 #9
if corporations are people, why not killer whales? elehhhhna Jun 2015 #22
I try never to get stuck on the meanings of words. Words are very shifty things. hunter Jun 2015 #24
I don't agree about the "marriage" word. All marriage means is "union." MADem Jun 2015 #25
I'm not going to repeat everything you've said on this post simply because you've.. BlueJazz Jul 2015 #32
Thank you!!! MADem Jul 2015 #33
“Right now, there is no one besides a human who is a person,” Huh? Citizens United has made valerief Jun 2015 #4
also +1 n/t Alkene Jun 2015 #13
Maybe that awful decision can do some good BrotherIvan Jun 2015 #15
One of the TV commercials on for GE right now is boasting about their Erich Bloodaxe BSN Jun 2015 #21
Or what about the booms Obama approved? BrotherIvan Jun 2015 #23
No, they aren't persons awoke_in_2003 Jun 2015 #7
Human superiority has always been a myth. Live and Learn Jun 2015 #10
we are superior in several measurable ways qazplm Jul 2015 #34
I suspect all cetaceans are. nt Erich Bloodaxe BSN Jun 2015 #20
So, how shall we define a person in the broadest sense? DetlefK Jun 2015 #26
No qazplm Jul 2015 #30
we have to keep our minds open RussBLib Jul 2015 #31
Only if they can rise above their cetacean. Orrex Jul 2015 #35
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