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one_true_leroy

(810 posts)
10. "God created the integers"
Tue Mar 27, 2012, 11:54 PM
Mar 2012

And when "God" created the integers, she said they were of finite length. There are no integers of infinite length, and there is no "look[ing] at why," as you implore. The very careful definitions of integers, rationals, etc., cannot be muddled ( as you suggest) without crumbling the edifice upon which math is built.

<You've made an argument for 1/3.> {sorry- incorrect attribution} It is NOT an integer, but a ratio of integers, and its repeating nature places it in the rational numbers.

If you are to continue a MATHEMATICAL argument, you must accept the mathematical definition that there exist NO integers of infinite length. Now, there is no limit to the length of an integer, but this is not the same as admitting infinite length.

In other words, if you pick a number, and it is an integer, it WILL be finite in length. If it is not finite, it may be cyclic (rational) or not (irrational), but not an integer. You can dig around and find a proof that every ratio of ANY pair of integers will have a terminating or cyclic decimal representation.

If you are unwilling to accept these definitions, you are not making a MATHEMATICAL argument, but merely a semantic one. Math is the elimination of semantics in pursuit of truths.

If you are sincere, read Howard Eves Foundations and Fundamental Concepts of Mathematics. Best introduction to higher math I've ever read. If you insist on being ornery for ornery's sake, read something by Bukowski.

Peace and waffles,
leroy
On edit: it wasn't you that mentioned 1/3, and that post argued correctly about the decimal expansion.
Double edit: be more careful in math arguments. It is a VERY unambiguous field, especially at this level.

Recommendations

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R&K for the first math post I've seen on DU longship Mar 2012 #1
Question for math teacher - Please. At the end of the year I have 100,000 Pesos... wake.up.america Feb 2013 #43
Well, it doesn't come out even. longship Feb 2013 #44
I disagree. Is PI a rational number? napoleon_in_rags Mar 2012 #2
Woot! for critical thinking and logic! TalkingDog Mar 2012 #3
A set of numbers is countable if it has the same cardinality as some subset of the natural numbers. Jim__ Mar 2012 #4
"there do not exist 2 integers, say n and m, such that pi can be written as n/m" napoleon_in_rags Mar 2012 #5
"... you know Z plus all integers of infinite length would probably have the same cardinality as R." Jim__ Mar 2012 #7
+! Hawkowl Mar 2012 #8
I will make it simpler for you. napoleon_in_rags Mar 2012 #9
"God created the integers" one_true_leroy Mar 2012 #10
This is a teachable moment. napoleon_in_rags Mar 2012 #11
A few points... one_true_leroy Mar 2012 #13
Yes, I've always had something of a flirtation with limits... napoleon_in_rags Mar 2012 #15
Had to jump in on this thread... Joseph8th Apr 2012 #22
As simply as it can be put, your statement is in direct contradiction to a Zermelo-Fraenkel axiom. Jim__ Mar 2012 #12
Awwwww hell..... one_true_leroy Mar 2012 #14
HELL yeah! I love it... Joseph8th Apr 2012 #23
Ah, my friend. You have forgotten your transfinite cardinals! napoleon_in_rags Mar 2012 #16
Guess again. Jim__ Mar 2012 #17
So you're saying 1+1+1...infinity is an integer? napoleon_in_rags Mar 2012 #18
The Axiom of Infinity says that 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 ... is an integer. Jim__ Apr 2012 #19
Yeah, it guarantees the size N is infinite, not that any number in N is infinite. napoleon_in_rags Apr 2012 #20
See post #4. Jim__ Apr 2012 #21
Nicely said... and... Joseph8th Apr 2012 #24
Now there's some interesting stuff. napoleon_in_rags Apr 2012 #26
Wellll.... Joseph8th Apr 2012 #27
But then pi's special in its relationship... Joseph8th Apr 2012 #28
Euler's identity tama Apr 2012 #30
Just answer me one question Joseph8th. napoleon_in_rags Apr 2012 #32
You're on an interesting track tama Apr 2012 #33
You're awesome Tama. napoleon_in_rags Apr 2012 #34
Mersenne primes tama Apr 2012 #35
God is Alive, Magic is Afoot. napoleon_in_rags Apr 2012 #36
Category theory tama Apr 2012 #37
I'm just incredibly glad to hear these people seeing the holes in set theory. napoleon_in_rags Apr 2012 #39
Not quite. Dr. Strange Apr 2012 #38
.999... is not equal to 1. napoleon_in_rags Apr 2012 #40
The problem is you can't treat infinity like a real number. Dr. Strange Apr 2012 #41
Agreed, that is the problem, but for both of us. napoleon_in_rags Apr 2012 #42
Not much point tama Apr 2012 #31
Transcendentals are strange tama Mar 2012 #6
Da! Transcendentals are strange... Joseph8th Apr 2012 #25
Deep shit ;) tama Apr 2012 #29
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