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muriel_volestrangler

(106,257 posts)
37. I don't see at all that "we as a species" have deliberately chosen renewables
Sat Oct 29, 2016, 02:42 PM
Oct 2016

A small subset have; but the vast majority of the species just want cheap energy, and have taken that. A series of pieces of luck have helped us; the Soviet bloc collapsed around 1990, and that helped decrease the use of dirty coal (at the cost of a precarious standard of living for many in those countries for a few years), and cut some CO2 emissions. But that was not "deliberate work".

In the 90s, several developed countries switched from coal to nuclear or natural gas, but for cost/energy independence/anti-union reasons, rather than climate reasons. Once Kyoto happened, a significant part of the developed world, the major emitters, did start to think about CO2 emissions, but by no means all of it (eg the USA), and pretty half-heartedly. You can look at the figures you gave to see we've used very little renewables so far. Political and economic reasons kept the use of fossil fuels still pretty high, and that has been more important to governments and electorates (especially economic for the latter) than climate change. Meanwhile, developing countries massively grew their energy consumption by the cheapest means available. There was no 'planning' for renewables - we still use very little, and the existing plans for it are still small.

Growth rates don't belong to the renewable technologies themselves - a technology is chosen by users who want it, and people still want whatever's cheapest. They don't say "we see there's a growth in solar, therefore we demand more of it", they say "how can I heat my house cheaply?" (and very few are using renewables for that; those are making small inroads into electricity production, but gas, oil and coal still do the vast amount of heating in the world).

The apathy about climate is obvious in the US elections - do you see people complaining that climate change is not discussed at all? Democrats nod to it, and Republicans deny its very existence. And the same goes in other countries, more or less.

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Ethanol Dr.Jones Oct 2016 #1
The numbers might change your view... kristopher Oct 2016 #4
Fertilization? Dr.Jones Oct 2016 #5
That's a comparison of two methods for producing (bio)fuels for ICEs kristopher Oct 2016 #6
Robbing Peter to pay Paul Dr.Jones Oct 2016 #7
Actually they do consider the nature and role of the feedstocks.... kristopher Oct 2016 #9
Ummmm... Dr.Jones Oct 2016 #11
Ummmmm.... kristopher Oct 2016 #12
Maybe you grabbed the wrong link? Dr.Jones Oct 2016 #13
So you aren't referencing sustainability practices ... kristopher Oct 2016 #14
? Dr.Jones Oct 2016 #15
It isn't complicated kristopher Oct 2016 #16
DOA Dr.Jones Oct 2016 #17
You are making the unwarranted assumption that it isn't included. kristopher Oct 2016 #18
Biology 101 Dr.Jones Oct 2016 #19
Which has nothing at all to do with the specious nature of the criticism. kristopher Oct 2016 #20
WTF? Dr.Jones Oct 2016 #21
. kristopher Oct 2016 #22
Food vs. Fuel Dr.Jones Oct 2016 #23
"Since you're hell bent on playing stupid..." kristopher Oct 2016 #24
Food vs. Fuel....again Dr.Jones Oct 2016 #25
Subject kristopher Oct 2016 #26
Food vs. Fuel.....take 3 Dr.Jones Oct 2016 #27
The fact that you think you're offering cogent criticism is astounding. kristopher Oct 2016 #28
Food vs. Fuel.....take IV Dr.Jones Oct 2016 #29
If you want to have a discussion about ethanol start another thread. kristopher Oct 2016 #30
My bad. Dr.Jones Oct 2016 #31
Yes, it is. kristopher Oct 2016 #32
My F150 gets about 4 mpg less with E85 than E10. When I pull my trailer is goes to about 5.5 less. tonyt53 Oct 2016 #52
e-cars just shift the dirt around if powered by coal generated electricity instead of petroleum nt msongs Oct 2016 #2
I don't think that's accurate, but... kristopher Oct 2016 #3
Have we won? progressoid Oct 2016 #8
Good to know. kristopher Oct 2016 #10
"What could derail the revolution?" NickB79 Oct 2016 #33
Saying it will fail because it will fail is a fail in itself. kristopher Oct 2016 #34
Yeah, I'm sure things will work out just fine for us NickB79 Oct 2016 #39
How is that related to the OP? kristopher Oct 2016 #40
The idea of a 'trajectory' implies 'momentum' or 'inertia' muriel_volestrangler Oct 2016 #35
That's an interesting thought... kristopher Oct 2016 #36
I don't see at all that "we as a species" have deliberately chosen renewables muriel_volestrangler Oct 2016 #37
It sounds like you're describing the inertia of the existing fossil system. kristopher Oct 2016 #38
I'd like to cover one point I neglected to address earlier kristopher Oct 2016 #42
Shot down because as a whole, people don't care enough about it muriel_volestrangler Oct 2016 #44
I'm sorry but "the same thing" did not happen in the UK. kristopher Oct 2016 #45
"the challenge is to make that work" - you were saying the revolution was already won muriel_volestrangler Oct 2016 #46
I'm sorry, but are you equating a single minor battle with an entire war? kristopher Oct 2016 #47
Here's what I was referring to muriel_volestrangler Oct 2016 #48
"The article says that victory is inevitable. It's wrong." kristopher Oct 2016 #49
The support is the figures. We have fuck all renewables so far. muriel_volestrangler Oct 2016 #50
"And, as I said, there is no 'inertia' in economics. That's wishful thinking." kristopher Oct 2016 #51
No, I'm not claming inertia there muriel_volestrangler Oct 2016 #53
You haven't made a single legitimate argument yet. kristopher Oct 2016 #54
No, you've misread that. I attacked you for knowing *less* muriel_volestrangler Oct 2016 #55
Nope. kristopher Oct 2016 #56
Your complacency is worrying muriel_volestrangler Oct 2016 #57
Great way to "win" by false framing. kristopher Oct 2016 #58
UK drops to new low in global renewable energy league table kristopher Nov 2016 #60
Inertia and trajectory kristopher Nov 2016 #59
I believe big oil has realized it Victor_c3 Oct 2016 #41
It hasn't been OPEC so much as it's been Saudi Arabia. kristopher Oct 2016 #43
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