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napoleon_in_rags

(3,992 posts)
39. I'm just incredibly glad to hear these people seeing the holes in set theory.
Sat Apr 21, 2012, 04:30 PM
Apr 2012

There is this psychological type who satisfied with the potential for something to exist rather than actually doing or seeing the thing. In Meyer's Briggs test, its INTP: The theorist. Somehow that mindset permeated math too much with set theory, to the extent the theoretical objects diverged from observable reality, leading to absurdities like the infinite amount of points between .999... and 1, any one of which can never be specified or measured with a finite measuring device.

Those links are really interesting, I really enjoyed that pdf. Its the approachable writing style. Love it.

My thing has been to see if I can draw up working foundations with information theory, which means creating a lean mean version of probability theory from which everything can be derived. On reading that paper, I am pleased: The system I came up with makes all functions invertible, which was discouraging before I read that. What I'm doing that seems unique is really based on enshrining uncertainty at a fundamental level. The observer must be an integral part of the system. I'm also looking at the idea of independent random variables being equivalent in every way to separate dimensions in a space, and going really deeply into that. When you put all that together, you get a math which doesn't try to understand the universe independent of the observer, but rather as totally dependent on the observer: So inquiries into the nature of the universe are also inquiries into the nature of self.

My, that sounds hippy dippy doesn't it? Okay, example: A simplified baby's experience is represented as a two dimensional space, where one dimension is sound information events, one is visual information events. Because the two are independent, a probability density function collapse (aka information event) in sound - "mommy here!" is at first independent from visual events. But the baby's mind is learning, meaning that it is coming to a state where the vast dimensions of independent variables of primal experience are becoming correlated, to produce a space of lesser dimension in his mind. Eventually, the baby correlates the sound event with the visual event of seeing his mother, and maybe even tries to eradicate anxiety of not knowing and keep the dimension low by saying "mommy" himself at some point when she doesn't.

The point is that in a situation where the universe is described by invertible functions, the known and the knower are inseparable, and from one, you can get to the other. I think that's a beautiful thought.


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R&K for the first math post I've seen on DU longship Mar 2012 #1
Question for math teacher - Please. At the end of the year I have 100,000 Pesos... wake.up.america Feb 2013 #43
Well, it doesn't come out even. longship Feb 2013 #44
I disagree. Is PI a rational number? napoleon_in_rags Mar 2012 #2
Woot! for critical thinking and logic! TalkingDog Mar 2012 #3
A set of numbers is countable if it has the same cardinality as some subset of the natural numbers. Jim__ Mar 2012 #4
"there do not exist 2 integers, say n and m, such that pi can be written as n/m" napoleon_in_rags Mar 2012 #5
"... you know Z plus all integers of infinite length would probably have the same cardinality as R." Jim__ Mar 2012 #7
+! Hawkowl Mar 2012 #8
I will make it simpler for you. napoleon_in_rags Mar 2012 #9
"God created the integers" one_true_leroy Mar 2012 #10
This is a teachable moment. napoleon_in_rags Mar 2012 #11
A few points... one_true_leroy Mar 2012 #13
Yes, I've always had something of a flirtation with limits... napoleon_in_rags Mar 2012 #15
Had to jump in on this thread... Joseph8th Apr 2012 #22
As simply as it can be put, your statement is in direct contradiction to a Zermelo-Fraenkel axiom. Jim__ Mar 2012 #12
Awwwww hell..... one_true_leroy Mar 2012 #14
HELL yeah! I love it... Joseph8th Apr 2012 #23
Ah, my friend. You have forgotten your transfinite cardinals! napoleon_in_rags Mar 2012 #16
Guess again. Jim__ Mar 2012 #17
So you're saying 1+1+1...infinity is an integer? napoleon_in_rags Mar 2012 #18
The Axiom of Infinity says that 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 ... is an integer. Jim__ Apr 2012 #19
Yeah, it guarantees the size N is infinite, not that any number in N is infinite. napoleon_in_rags Apr 2012 #20
See post #4. Jim__ Apr 2012 #21
Nicely said... and... Joseph8th Apr 2012 #24
Now there's some interesting stuff. napoleon_in_rags Apr 2012 #26
Wellll.... Joseph8th Apr 2012 #27
But then pi's special in its relationship... Joseph8th Apr 2012 #28
Euler's identity tama Apr 2012 #30
Just answer me one question Joseph8th. napoleon_in_rags Apr 2012 #32
You're on an interesting track tama Apr 2012 #33
You're awesome Tama. napoleon_in_rags Apr 2012 #34
Mersenne primes tama Apr 2012 #35
God is Alive, Magic is Afoot. napoleon_in_rags Apr 2012 #36
Category theory tama Apr 2012 #37
I'm just incredibly glad to hear these people seeing the holes in set theory. napoleon_in_rags Apr 2012 #39
Not quite. Dr. Strange Apr 2012 #38
.999... is not equal to 1. napoleon_in_rags Apr 2012 #40
The problem is you can't treat infinity like a real number. Dr. Strange Apr 2012 #41
Agreed, that is the problem, but for both of us. napoleon_in_rags Apr 2012 #42
Not much point tama Apr 2012 #31
Transcendentals are strange tama Mar 2012 #6
Da! Transcendentals are strange... Joseph8th Apr 2012 #25
Deep shit ;) tama Apr 2012 #29
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