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DreamGypsy

(2,252 posts)
17. It's actually electron degeneracy pressure that keeps atoms from collapsing...
Sat Sep 1, 2012, 08:30 PM
Sep 2012

From Wikipedia: Electron Degeneracy Pressure

Freeman Dyson showed that the imperviousness of solid matter is due to quantum degeneracy pressure rather than electrostatic repulsion as had been previously assumed.[1] Furthermore, electron degeneracy pressure prevents stars from collapsing under their own weight once nuclear fusion has ceased.


The Pauli Exclusion Principle prevents 2 electrons (spin 1/2 fermions) from occupying the same quantum state simultaneously. A consequence of this quantum mechanical principle is that electrons occupy, and are confined to, an orbital structure about the nucleus in normal matter - so the electrons do not 'fill' the space, it's just empty.

For stars of sufficient mass, gravitational collapse can overcome electron degeneracy pressure to form neutron stars, which may be prevented from further collapse by neutron degeneracy pressure (another consequence of the Fermi exclusion principle). Black holes result from the collapse of stars sufficiently massive to overcome neutron degeneracy pressure.

... but enough of that, and back to the original question of the thread...

I think the answer to whether "perception of solid objects is a subjective experience?" depends upon one's definition of solid. Quantum mechanics says that certain things that are mostly empty (~99.99% empty) behave as impervious. solid matter. Human experience of "empty" things, like an empty elevator shaft, are not as being solid. But, as Johnd83 remarked in his comment on this thread, "we (humans) perceive only a small part of reality", in fact a very tiny part of reality.

Our brains and senses have evolved to make us survive, not to make us wise. However, we do seem to have some capacity for trying to understand things that work in ways we cannot perceive and to build tools to help extend and map our perceptions. However, sometimes the universe challenges our abilities. As Richard Feynman remarked "if you think you understand quantum mechanics, then you don't understand quantum mechanics". The continual challenge to experience, to understand, and to know is what makes life fun.


Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

imo yes proud patriot Sep 2012 #1
Try sticking your hand through a solid object flyingfysh Sep 2012 #2
Ouch! That was bad advice. ZombieHorde Sep 2012 #3
We only perceive a very small part of reality johnd83 Sep 2012 #4
I take comfort in that thought. nt ZombieHorde Sep 2012 #34
solid objects are objectively solid in the sense that we can't pass thru them phantom power Sep 2012 #5
I blame quantum myself intaglio Sep 2012 #6
A science assembly project Generic Other Sep 2012 #7
Perception is strictly a subjective experience. Jim__ Sep 2012 #8
I see you are predicting some of my future OPs. ZombieHorde Sep 2012 #9
One of my favorite illusions ... eppur_se_muova Sep 2012 #11
Color is definitely a mental construct... DreamGypsy Sep 2012 #18
No. That "empty" space is pervaded by fields, such as the EM field ... eppur_se_muova Sep 2012 #10
Thanks for the info. I like the magnet analogy, because it relatable. ZombieHorde Sep 2012 #12
Exactly. Igel Sep 2012 #13
That is really interesting to me. Thanks for posting. nt ZombieHorde Sep 2012 #14
It's actually electron degeneracy pressure that keeps atoms from collapsing... DreamGypsy Sep 2012 #17
Well, that's what keeps the electrons in atoms from collapsing inward ... eppur_se_muova Sep 2012 #19
DAMMIT, you beat me to the magnet analogy! Odin2005 Sep 2012 #24
When I was little, my sister always blamed me for anything that happened to her Tyrs WolfDaemon Sep 2012 #15
So naughty! ZombieHorde Sep 2012 #16
Yeah, but when she invents the oscillation overthruster, won't you look silly ! eppur_se_muova Sep 2012 #20
It will never happen Monkey-Boy! Bigbooté is watching her! Tyrs WolfDaemon Sep 2012 #21
Beat me to it. Stryder Sep 2012 #30
This message was self-deleted by its author kickysnana Sep 2012 #22
That's so mean, but hilarious! Odin2005 Sep 2012 #25
"Solidity" is an emergent phenomenon of... Odin2005 Sep 2012 #23
Sigh! No! It is an expression of Quantum Electrodynamics. longship Sep 2012 #26
Solidity is... Speck Tater Sep 2012 #27
Funny, but the analogy of repulsive parents seems to fit. nt ZombieHorde Sep 2012 #33
Sorry, but atoms are not "mostly empty". DetlefK Sep 2012 #28
By "subjective," I did not mean imaginary, I meant subjective to our size. ZombieHorde Sep 2012 #31
Then yes. DetlefK Sep 2012 #39
How do you know atoms are mostly empty space except through perception? GodlessBiker Sep 2012 #29
Well, I have not personally perceived nothing about individual atoms, only clumps of atoms. ZombieHorde Sep 2012 #32
Rutherford's gold foil experiment is how we found out that atoms are mostly empty space johnd83 Sep 2012 #36
I learned something! nt ZombieHorde Sep 2012 #35
Being that we all experience the phenomenon of solidity the same, then gtar100 Sep 2012 #37
I was thinking subjective due to our size. ZombieHorde Sep 2012 #38
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