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DetlefK

(16,670 posts)
28. Sorry, but atoms are not "mostly empty".
Sun Sep 2, 2012, 07:24 AM
Sep 2012

When encountering such tiny scales, you have to give up notions of absolutism. "Empty", "full", "here", "there" only work in classic newtonian-galileic physics.

There is the wave-particle-dualism, but in an atom electrons are best described by a wave-function. And according to Born's interpretation of the wave-function, the square of the absolute value of the wave-function is equal to the probability-density of the particle. (This equality no longer holds when the particle becomes relativistic. Works with Schroedinger-equation, but not with Dirac- and Klein-Gordon-equation.)

A spatial probability-density means, that the particle is never in one particular place, but is smeared out over several places. He is maybe "here" and maybe "there", as long as nobody is looking. Once someone "looks", the wave-function "collapses" from a multitude of possible states into one state: That one state reaches 100% probability, the rest drops to 0%.

So, in recap: Atoms are neither empty nor full. They are filled with maybes.



And concerning your question: Solidity is not subjective, you can't talk it away or ignore it at will. It's an emanation of a balance between attracting and repulsing forces that keep atoms in their place.
And the Pauli-exclusion-principle says: "The atoms of your finger-tip shalt not be in the same place as the atoms of your desk." (Well, the electrons and nucleons of the atoms, but the effect is the same.)

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

imo yes proud patriot Sep 2012 #1
Try sticking your hand through a solid object flyingfysh Sep 2012 #2
Ouch! That was bad advice. ZombieHorde Sep 2012 #3
We only perceive a very small part of reality johnd83 Sep 2012 #4
I take comfort in that thought. nt ZombieHorde Sep 2012 #34
solid objects are objectively solid in the sense that we can't pass thru them phantom power Sep 2012 #5
I blame quantum myself intaglio Sep 2012 #6
A science assembly project Generic Other Sep 2012 #7
Perception is strictly a subjective experience. Jim__ Sep 2012 #8
I see you are predicting some of my future OPs. ZombieHorde Sep 2012 #9
One of my favorite illusions ... eppur_se_muova Sep 2012 #11
Color is definitely a mental construct... DreamGypsy Sep 2012 #18
No. That "empty" space is pervaded by fields, such as the EM field ... eppur_se_muova Sep 2012 #10
Thanks for the info. I like the magnet analogy, because it relatable. ZombieHorde Sep 2012 #12
Exactly. Igel Sep 2012 #13
That is really interesting to me. Thanks for posting. nt ZombieHorde Sep 2012 #14
It's actually electron degeneracy pressure that keeps atoms from collapsing... DreamGypsy Sep 2012 #17
Well, that's what keeps the electrons in atoms from collapsing inward ... eppur_se_muova Sep 2012 #19
DAMMIT, you beat me to the magnet analogy! Odin2005 Sep 2012 #24
When I was little, my sister always blamed me for anything that happened to her Tyrs WolfDaemon Sep 2012 #15
So naughty! ZombieHorde Sep 2012 #16
Yeah, but when she invents the oscillation overthruster, won't you look silly ! eppur_se_muova Sep 2012 #20
It will never happen Monkey-Boy! Bigbooté is watching her! Tyrs WolfDaemon Sep 2012 #21
Beat me to it. Stryder Sep 2012 #30
This message was self-deleted by its author kickysnana Sep 2012 #22
That's so mean, but hilarious! Odin2005 Sep 2012 #25
"Solidity" is an emergent phenomenon of... Odin2005 Sep 2012 #23
Sigh! No! It is an expression of Quantum Electrodynamics. longship Sep 2012 #26
Solidity is... Speck Tater Sep 2012 #27
Funny, but the analogy of repulsive parents seems to fit. nt ZombieHorde Sep 2012 #33
Sorry, but atoms are not "mostly empty". DetlefK Sep 2012 #28
By "subjective," I did not mean imaginary, I meant subjective to our size. ZombieHorde Sep 2012 #31
Then yes. DetlefK Sep 2012 #39
How do you know atoms are mostly empty space except through perception? GodlessBiker Sep 2012 #29
Well, I have not personally perceived nothing about individual atoms, only clumps of atoms. ZombieHorde Sep 2012 #32
Rutherford's gold foil experiment is how we found out that atoms are mostly empty space johnd83 Sep 2012 #36
I learned something! nt ZombieHorde Sep 2012 #35
Being that we all experience the phenomenon of solidity the same, then gtar100 Sep 2012 #37
I was thinking subjective due to our size. ZombieHorde Sep 2012 #38
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