2016 Postmortem

TubbersUK

(1,439 posts)

147. No

Fri Jan 15, 2016, 09:19 AM

Jan 2016

Last edited Fri Jan 15, 2016, 11:51 AM - Edit history (2)

As per the UK, it's funded from general taxation/revenue.

In neither country is VAT hypothecated for healthcare.

ETA: And I see that the French fund their healthcare via national insurance levied on income - again, not via ring-fenced VAT.

http://www.commonwealthfund.org/grants-and-fellowships/fellowships/australian-american-health-policy-fellowship/health-care-system-and-health-policy-in-australia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_care_in_Australia

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170 replies

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Highlight:

If you want Single Payer, are you willing to impose a national sales tax to pay for it? [View all] Yavin4 Jan 2016 OP

8 out of 10 democrats favor single payer. cali Jan 2016 #1

Are you willing to pay a national sales tax to pay for it? n/t Yavin4 Jan 2016 #8

I am yes. apnu Jan 2016 #23

Me too! ViseGrip Jan 2016 #118

It beats paying insurance premiums and co-pays, doesn't it? arcane1 Jan 2016 #86

I say yes, too demigoddess Jan 2016 #122

I am, yes. But it might not even be necessary. Bernie Sanders said that the Single Payer Cal33 Jan 2016 #135

HELL YES! It's less expensive than monthly insurance policies...that's for damn sure. n/t in_cog_ni_to Jan 2016 #2

Yes. I will be happy to pay in taxes what I pay to an insurance company. Autumn Jan 2016 #3

Hell yes. We are paying $800 a month through employer. 7wo7rees Jan 2016 #20

I would prefer a progressive tax nt firebrand80 Jan 2016 #4

Yep. Gidney N Cloyd Jan 2016 #5

I'd prefer income taxes but sure whatthehey Jan 2016 #6

Yes TubbersUK Jan 2016 #60

Absolutely! fleur-de-lisa Jan 2016 #7

Do your fellow Americans want a national sales tax? Yavin4 Jan 2016 #9

I don't know what your game is nor do I really care . . . fleur-de-lisa Jan 2016 #25

Transparent as glass: deceptive descriptions and weak-ass talking points. arcane1 Jan 2016 #87

Yes, because they are already paying through the nose for health insurance. merrily Jan 2016 #44

When they have to pay half again for EVERYTHING, the bloom will come off that rose real quick. nt MADem Jan 2016 #65

Sorry, but 2.2 percent of income in taxes is far less than half the 14.7 percent Fawke Em Jan 2016 #97

When they realize it would be less than their insurance premiums? tkmorris Jan 2016 #112

If the Sanders campaign thought they could win sufrommich Jan 2016 #10

GOP talking point Armstead Jan 2016 #19

Well,yes. Exactly. sufrommich Jan 2016 #22

And our job is to echo that? Armstead Jan 2016 #28

You cannot win an election in the U.S. by promising to raise taxes sufrommich Jan 2016 #33

Oh heck then. Let's just cancel the election and let the GOP do whatever they wasnt. Armstead Jan 2016 #38

Americans understand they are already paying for health insurance. merrily Jan 2016 #45

Not just that .... Mother Of Four Jan 2016 #153

Sorry, I've been wrong to fall for the pretense that this is really about Medicare for All when merrily Jan 2016 #154

... Mother Of Four Jan 2016 #155

No, no, my response is not about you or about Medicare for All. merrily Jan 2016 #156

Ah gotcha .... Mother Of Four Jan 2016 #157

Yep. Facts won't matter. merrily Jan 2016 #158

You can if you tell them the amount they'd save paying taxes Fawke Em Jan 2016 #99

It's the job of the Clintonites to echo GOP talking points, yes. Doctor_J Jan 2016 #101

Except when it's expedient to parrot a liberal line Armstead Jan 2016 #105

The average family will save money. Broward Jan 2016 #29

Some would save money,others wouldn't. Union members sufrommich Jan 2016 #43

I don't believe that is true because he will be taxing the middle class a modest amount Samantha Jan 2016 #169

Paying national sales tax will be cheaper than health care now Robbins Jan 2016 #11

It doesn't require a sales tax. evlbstrd Jan 2016 #12

Don't disagree with single payer, but doubling our Medicare tax won't be enough. Hoyt Jan 2016 #26

I don't even know if we can reach the German efficiency level exboyfil Jan 2016 #57

It would definitely be a lot, as Vermont found out when they ended their bold experiment to enact Hoyt Jan 2016 #70

That's looking only at payroll income. RichVRichV Jan 2016 #104

Yes! Health care costs are half in other developed countries and outcomes are better! Human101948 Jan 2016 #31

^^^this^^^ and, if necessary, supplement with sales tax on CERTAIN items ReasonableToo Jan 2016 #62

Wait, wait... PyaarRevolution Jan 2016 #109

"Those foods" = "sugary foods" ReasonableToo Jan 2016 #127

I was referring... PyaarRevolution Jan 2016 #139

not interested in hashing out finite details at this point in time. ReasonableToo Jan 2016 #144

I feel the same as you, but am curious to know why organic and non-gmo food would be exempt cleanhippie Jan 2016 #149

Me: NO extra tax on fresh produce ReasonableToo Jan 2016 #160

It seems you are open to following the science, wherever that takes us. cleanhippie Jan 2016 #161

Cool. Glad we are in agreement. :-) ReasonableToo Jan 2016 #163

Well, at least they do follow science, not the psuedo-science peddled by anti-GMO groups. cleanhippie Jan 2016 #165

I would add that we should also tax alcoholic beverages, altho we do that here in CT CTyankee Jan 2016 #170

Yes, I would rather pay a tax than an insurance premium. Punkingal Jan 2016 #13

HELL YES! no brainer. nt m-lekktor Jan 2016 #14

If necessary. But we won't know the numbers mmonk Jan 2016 #15

More expansive AND worse EdwardBernays Jan 2016 #27

Why not try something like increasing the taxes on those making $300,000 and more/year first? Cal33 Jan 2016 #16

Do you have any idea how much you'd have to tax them to keep from taxing lower income Hoyt Jan 2016 #34

You need an entirely new source of revenue to replace the existing health insurance system Yavin4 Jan 2016 #48

Didn't Sanders say that he was going to go for the Single Payer system with universal coverage? He Cal33 Jan 2016 #133

That's why I wrote to give it a try first to see how it will come out. My question to you is, Do Cal33 Jan 2016 #75

Even the legitimate stuff in that list doesn't approach the $3 trillion we spend on health annually. Hoyt Jan 2016 #93

Here's a link stating that Corporate Welfare costs the average American family $6,000 per year. Do Cal33 Jan 2016 #130

No. Are you being purposely obtuse. I mean, Sanders isn't going to change that. Hoyt Jan 2016 #132

There is no point in discussing this further. You think your way, and I'll think mine. Cal33 Jan 2016 #134

I used to think like you right up until George McGovern lost in a landslide. Hoyt Jan 2016 #136

Just read my msg. 135, which is near the top of the page. And read the link. Cal33 Jan 2016 #137

We also need to figure out where to get $150B/yr. for 20 years exboyfil Jan 2016 #76

I think hospitals, insurance companies, pharmaceutical companies and doctors over-charge. Cal33 Jan 2016 #88

Like with an executive order? No, he could not Orangepeel Jan 2016 #148

Medicare pays only a percentage of what doctors charge. The doctors who take Cal33 Jan 2016 #162

Yep Armstead Jan 2016 #17

European countries are not paying a fortune for defense. potone Jan 2016 #18

^^ This. I have difficulty believing we truly need to spend *that* much for defense. winter is coming Jan 2016 #117

[cough] bullshit [cough] EdwardBernays Jan 2016 #21

Value-added tax Yavin4 Jan 2016 #51

National Insurance contribution EdwardBernays Jan 2016 #58

VAT is not the primary funding mechanism for enlightenment Jan 2016 #64

Exactly right EdwardBernays Jan 2016 #79

Correct TubbersUK Jan 2016 #145

If it is the same as my friend in Australia marlakay Jan 2016 #24

Great story. Here's how they pay for those services Yavin4 Jan 2016 #32

No. enlightenment Jan 2016 #69

Sales tax is 9% where I live noiretextatique Jan 2016 #111

No TubbersUK Jan 2016 #147

Yes, except we don't need to. Cut military spending by a couple percent. Myrina Jan 2016 #30

Not enough money. Not nearly enough. Yavin4 Jan 2016 #35

So cut it by 50%. We have the biggest military budget in the history of everyone forever anywhere. Myrina Jan 2016 #37

My agenda is truth. Yavin4 Jan 2016 #53

Exactly!!! exboyfil Jan 2016 #59

Why not the whole truth then? whatthehey Jan 2016 #67

The humorous thing would be if exboyfil Jan 2016 #73

Agenda is truth underpants Jan 2016 #106

Right now my wife and I are paying approximately $1100 per month for Medicare and a supplement tularetom Jan 2016 #36

Look over your spending on goods/services on a monthly basis. Yavin4 Jan 2016 #55

I'd have to be spending $11k a month before I'd lose money tularetom Jan 2016 #63

VAT is a sales tax on services rather than goods. ieoeja Jan 2016 #121

Actually, as it is imposed in Canada and Australia, it is a tax on goods AND services tularetom Jan 2016 #143

I much prefer income taxes to pay for it... ljm2002 Jan 2016 #39

Yep. marmar Jan 2016 #40

sales taxes are regressive. tax the rich. tk2kewl Jan 2016 #41

point taken Hiraeth Jan 2016 #78

Which is why the OP is claiming sales taxes are the only way to fund single payer. jeff47 Jan 2016 #81

Yes, and the OP has done nothing to explain how this just has to be done with sales taxes. DisgustipatedinCA Jan 2016 #98

Yes, and yes... Your entire premise is false. onecaliberal Jan 2016 #42

I AM ALREADY PAYING MORE IN PREMIUMS AND DEDUCTIBLES THAN THE TAX RATE. HELL YEAH !!! Hiraeth Jan 2016 #46

yes! thanks for putting it in all caps for the neuronally-challenged. kath Jan 2016 #74

IT TAKES WHAT IT TAKES TO GET OUT THE VOTE. THANKS !! Hiraeth Jan 2016 #83

I would be willing to fund it with a sensible and progressive Ed Suspicious Jan 2016 #47

Yes. although that is regressive. I like Bernie's plan better. n/t Motown_Johnny Jan 2016 #49

The US consumer spends $20 billion on soft drinks Ichingcarpenter Jan 2016 #50

Yes. DinahMoeHum Jan 2016 #52

Yes, elleng Jan 2016 #54

Whatever it takes bowens43 Jan 2016 #56

Yes (nt) bigwillq Jan 2016 #61

Yes___________________________ n/t vkkv Jan 2016 #66

I pay $350/month for my plan through the exchange Politicub Jan 2016 #68

No Buzz cook Jan 2016 #71

No. Income tax. Sales taxes are regressive. Matariki Jan 2016 #72

Exactly AJH032 Jan 2016 #167

Yes..... daleanime Jan 2016 #77

If you oppose single payer, can you do it without lying? jeff47 Jan 2016 #80

Yes! redstatebluegirl Jan 2016 #82

Or an income tax AgingAmerican Jan 2016 #84

Id rather pay taxes than be forced to pay for corporate greed. WDIM Jan 2016 #85

Yes. Europe seems to be doing well despite a sales tax. Tierra_y_Libertad Jan 2016 #89

Unfortunately I would have to say no. avebury Jan 2016 #90

If we just paid what we are already paying to corporations WDIM Jan 2016 #96

I am one of the lucky ones in that I don't have avebury Jan 2016 #140

Sure why not Mnpaul Jan 2016 #91

You don't have to use a national sales tax. n/t Skwmom Jan 2016 #92

I reject the central thesis--that sales taxes must be raised in order to accomplish this. DisgustipatedinCA Jan 2016 #94

The current proposals have it paid for by a slight income tax. Fawke Em Jan 2016 #95

I am really tired of Republicans and DINOs telling me why we can't have healthcare LIKE EVERY OTHER Doctor_J Jan 2016 #100

Yes cantbeserious Jan 2016 #102

I' m American - in the UK - the NHS is great - you would love it. Clifton Jan 2016 #103

Yes, the NHS truly is a gift :) TubbersUK Jan 2016 #110

It makes too much sense, most US politicos don't have the sense Dog gave a carrot. Mnemosyne Jan 2016 #166

As long as it's not on groceries. PyaarRevolution Jan 2016 #107

Interesting: many responders read this to say we would "have to" do a VAT, which you didn't say Recursion Jan 2016 #108

The responders on this thread remind me of Republicans who want tax cuts without saying what... Yavin4 Jan 2016 #115

The anti-tax guy tells me I remind him of a Republican? I think not. DisgustipatedinCA Jan 2016 #120

Okay. You have a reading comprehension problem. Yavin4 Jan 2016 #124

No, I believe my old English major is helping me to barely get by, somehow. DisgustipatedinCA Jan 2016 #125

Almost every fucking responder on this thread has said, "yes, raise taxes". ieoeja Jan 2016 #123

They are playing their designated role. Poorly, yes, but still playing it n/t arcane1 Jan 2016 #126

If it's a lot less than my $700+ a month for ACA, then shit yes! nt valerief Jan 2016 #113

The amount of sales tax I will pay will be far less than the premiums and deductibles Maedhros Jan 2016 #114

I'm paying a heckuva lot more on medical premiums than I am sales tax. EndElectoral Jan 2016 #116

False framing. We can tax anything we want to pay for it. Orsino Jan 2016 #119

Yes especially if it includes sonofspy777 Jan 2016 #128

No. It should be a progressive income tax, or possibly some kind of financial transaction tax. drm604 Jan 2016 #129

That's a great idea and relatively painless. Vinca Jan 2016 #131

Sure. Normally I hate sales tax but LittleBlue Jan 2016 #138

We have that in Canada. Poor people get money back from the tax service 4 times a year. Think of all applegrove Jan 2016 #141

Absolutely! n/t shanti Jan 2016 #142

About a 28% tax. Nt. seabeyond Jan 2016 #146

This message was self-deleted by its author polly7 Jan 2016 #150

Sure, if we don't have to pay insurance premiums. Blue_In_AK Jan 2016 #151

Make it a poll please. darkangel218 Jan 2016 #152

yes MariaThinks Jan 2016 #159

It would be a whole lot less than what I am currently paying in deductibles. n/t FourScore Jan 2016 #164

I prefer a payroll tax with no cap n/t TexasBushwhacker Jan 2016 #168