2016 Postmortem

randome

(34,845 posts)

5. It's a strange kind of defeatism to give up on the Democratic party...

Sun Jan 17, 2016, 12:58 PM

Jan 2016

...while at the same time proclaiming that only an Independent can save the Democratic Party.

From my standpoint, it doesn't matter who is the better candidate. Clinton has the connections and the delegates and she's more likely to be the nominee. If you believe in what you say, you should be working on two fronts simultaneously: how to elect Sanders and how to process a 'Plan B' to push Clinton further to the left in the event she becomes President.

Denigrating one candidate or the other shows, IMO, a lack of principle because you (not you, specifically) are essentially saying your principles only apply to one person.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]You have to play the game to find out why you're playing the game. -Existenz[/center][/font][hr]

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From what I've seen on this site some Hillary supporters, seem [View all] JRLeft Jan 2016 OP

I am realistic and I don't see Sanders as presidential. hrmjustin Jan 2016 #1

And if enough people buy into that what do we get? daleanime Jan 2016 #2

Then how does Sanders get the things he want? hrmjustin Jan 2016 #9

People power, nothing is easy. You have to try. JRLeft Jan 2016 #10

The gop won't bend to people power. hrmjustin Jan 2016 #11

Yes they will. They are very susceptible to public opinion. Its just doesn't get to them. FOX &CO. The Wielding Truth Jan 2016 #126

Both Cruz and Trump are already bending to populist Republican pressure on H-1B Visas... cascadiance Jan 2016 #156

You are completely misinterpreting our steady confidence Hortensis Jan 2016 #43

yes enid602 Jan 2016 #45

The image of Judge Judy sucking up to Hortensis Jan 2016 #46

Don't forget, his sister is a Federal judge and he's gone on record as saying she would be..... George II Jan 2016 #50

Trump's sister if a fairly liberal judge Gothmog Jan 2016 #100

".. rackety, intolerant, too-extreme candidate.." pangaia Jan 2016 #67

Rackety was the wrong word. He's made some Hortensis Jan 2016 #121

May I suggest you do some research into Bernie Sander's life. pangaia Jan 2016 #128

Look, the GOP is PRAYING Bernie takes Hillary out. Hortensis Jan 2016 #134

. Look, the GOP is PRAYING Bernie takes Hillary out. pangaia Jan 2016 #136

What do you mean by "rackety"? JDPriestly Jan 2016 #106

JDPriestly Aerows Jan 2016 #113

So, basically I gather you feel the nation's in the toilet Hortensis Jan 2016 #123

THANK YOU!! pangaia Jan 2016 #130

Really? 5,166 posts, including this one... :) Hortensis Jan 2016 #135

Really. pangaia Jan 2016 #137

:) Hortensis Jan 2016 #162

In my case it is probably mostly laziness. pangaia Jan 2016 #163

Since Democrats want a candidate who shares their ideology Kall Jan 2016 #112

We elect Bernie and put more Democrats in congress.... daleanime Jan 2016 #12

Then why did Sanders fail to raise money for the party? hrmjustin Jan 2016 #13

Money over voters? daleanime Jan 2016 #14

This is where you guys lose me. hrmjustin Jan 2016 #15

Post removed Post removed Jan 2016 #19

Follow your own advice. hrmjustin Jan 2016 #20

You didn't read or comprehend a thing I typed madokie Jan 2016 #22

Yes I did and responded. hrmjustin Jan 2016 #24

Let me fix that for you: 99Forever Jan 2016 #25

Don't get your hopes up. hrmjustin Jan 2016 #27

This message was self-deleted by its author 99Forever Jan 2016 #29

"Don't get your hopes up" LiberalLovinLug Jan 2016 #88

We used to donate to the Party. We stopped because we are not happy with the way the JDPriestly Jan 2016 #111

Excuse me, where in anything that I've written... daleanime Jan 2016 #28

+1 stonecutter357 Jan 2016 #51

You have a habit of saying goodbye Cartoonist Jan 2016 #74

Good bye! hrmjustin Jan 2016 #75

Unfortunately often a sign.... daleanime Jan 2016 #116

We go back awhile Cartoonist Jan 2016 #120

The down ballot races are very important Gothmog Jan 2016 #101

Having more democratic voters turn out.... daleanime Jan 2016 #114

Sanders is very very vulnerable to negative ads Gothmog Jan 2016 #124

Who would never have voted for a Democrat anyways..... daleanime Jan 2016 #139

Wrong. Socialism is viewed highly negatively by independents as Gallups polls on the stevenleser Jan 2016 #149

Relax, if you're right.... daleanime Jan 2016 #153

No, that's not what that means. stevenleser Jan 2016 #157

You know we never see the republican party doing this.... daleanime Jan 2016 #161

Here is why we can not risk 2016 on a candidate who can not win in general Gothmog Jan 2016 #150

If she was as good of a candidate as you think she wouldn't be a candidate.... daleanime Jan 2016 #154

Sanders is no Barack Obama Gothmog Jan 2016 #158

Did I say he was? daleanime Jan 2016 #159

Sanders will not be the nominee unless he is able to broaden his appeal beyond a very narrow group Gothmog Jan 2016 #164

Let the party raise its own money. JDPriestly Jan 2016 #108

I'd like to hope so. It might work the opposite. Hortensis Jan 2016 #47

You think your views are mainstream? Mine are. Ed Suspicious Jan 2016 #56

A President who has had zero ties to the Democratic Party until a few months ago.... George II Jan 2016 #52

Who is helped.... daleanime Jan 2016 #55

Zero ties? SheilaT Jan 2016 #69

You should review some of his votes as a Representative and a Senator. And "ties" go deeper.... George II Jan 2016 #76

Have you reviewed some of Hillary's votes? SheilaT Jan 2016 #90

And if those candidates don't meet your exacting specifications? brooklynite Jan 2016 #53

Isn't the question.... daleanime Jan 2016 #60

Actually I'd be happy to elect Sanders...if I thought he could get elected. brooklynite Jan 2016 #84

And will refuse to... daleanime Jan 2016 #97

I'm right there with you. JRLeft Jan 2016 #99

"The games"... brooklynite Jan 2016 #110

Sorry, the only time I watch those games.... daleanime Jan 2016 #115

translation: Hillary will be more effective than Obama, because Rs will work with her WhaTHellsgoingonhere Jan 2016 #31

How did FDR get it? He investigated what was going on on Wall Street and prosecuted and JDPriestly Jan 2016 #57

You had me at hello! Ed Suspicious Jan 2016 #63

^ This. AzDar Jan 2016 #64

Brilliant! rynestonecowboy Jan 2016 #79

Sanders has already gotten a major thing he wants DFW Jan 2016 #119

By getting folks to help him by electing a Senate and House who can Jarqui Jan 2016 #127

Then why did Sanders fail to raise money for the party? hrmjustin Jan 2016 #131

I really don't think one has a lot to do with the other at this particular moment in time. Jarqui Jan 2016 #141

I do and he has no excuse for it. hrmjustin Jan 2016 #142

Why should Bernie give to an organization that is controlled by the Clinton campaign Jarqui Jan 2016 #144

This is why i don't trust him. hrmjustin Jan 2016 #145

In other words, you want Sanders to be dumb as a rock by raising money for a politically corrupt Jarqui Jan 2016 #146

And my point still stands. hrmjustin Jan 2016 #147

There's nothing left of your point Jarqui Jan 2016 #148

All you said is we can't so why try. JRLeft Jan 2016 #3

No, he said Sanders can't. Metric System Jan 2016 #4

Hillary is promising more of the same but some how things are supposed to improve? JRLeft Jan 2016 #6

Exaclty. hrmjustin Jan 2016 #8

If Sanders can't then we can't. Ed Suspicious Jan 2016 #68

"Presidential" earthside Jan 2016 #17

Conservative? No. It is someone who leads and gets things done. tinrobot Jan 2016 #72

gets things done questionseverything Jan 2016 #96

You nailed it there n/t Populist_Prole Jan 2016 #81

Why not? pangaia Jan 2016 #58

That i can see a person in the oval office. hrmjustin Jan 2016 #61

That's still the rap I hear on Pres. Obama ... earthside Jan 2016 #82

Well i never said that about him and I do say this about Sanders. hrmjustin Jan 2016 #83

I am realistic and I don't see Clinton as electable. JackRiddler Jan 2016 #71

Fortunately you are part of a growing minority. What those in power diid rather than being satisfied sabrina 1 Jan 2016 #98

I agree. Bernie is not presidential. But more importantly underthematrix Jan 2016 #129

It's a strange kind of defeatism to give up on the Democratic party... randome Jan 2016 #5

The only way to she's moves to the left is to stop taking corporate cash. JRLeft Jan 2016 #7

I'm with you JR madokie Jan 2016 #21

Thank you, I cannot see how one can take corporate cash without being corrupted. It just JRLeft Jan 2016 #62

.... handmade34 Jan 2016 #36

Very fearful, too imo. nt artislife Jan 2016 #16

Yup, fear of 3 more Scalia-types on the Supreme Court. oasis Jan 2016 #35

I don't think Bernie would suggest 3 Scalia types for the Supreme Court. Next. nt artislife Jan 2016 #38

You know what I'm talking about. oasis Jan 2016 #42

Moderate = Defeatist AgingAmerican Jan 2016 #18

"These are good people and I respect their opinion" PowerToThePeople Jan 2016 #23

+1000000 SwampG8r Jan 2016 #39

Yes. Ed Suspicious Jan 2016 #59

It's not defeatism. It's just Sanders. Bleacher Creature Jan 2016 #26

We know it won't happen overnight, the status quo is regression not progress. JRLeft Jan 2016 #33

Wow - a thoughtful post about the process Empowerer Jan 2016 #48

Thanks for the dose of reality redstateblues Jan 2016 #133

Considering only 10% of people here as Clinton supporters going by DU polls... Blue_Adept Jan 2016 #30

And then... DUbeornot2be Jan 2016 #94

Rejecting a candidate who has notions of pie in the sky, is not "defeatism". oasis Jan 2016 #32

You support a candidate who bows down to Wall Street and other corporate powers. JRLeft Jan 2016 #34

True, Hill's no sworn enemy of Wall Street. That's a plus. oasis Jan 2016 #40

What did they do when she told them to azmom Jan 2016 #73

(1) Senator (2) President. Pick the one with the most influence. oasis Jan 2016 #87

I'm sure she will Kall Jan 2016 #78

I'm sure Bernie would have their ear. oasis Jan 2016 #89

He'll have them by the scruff of their necks. Ed Suspicious Jan 2016 #91

He doesn't want their ear Kall Jan 2016 #102

I'm sure they're breathing easier now. oasis Jan 2016 #105

They will be Kall Jan 2016 #109

The American people will "elect Hillary" oasis Jan 2016 #117

You're deflecting. Of course the country, not just you personally, might elect her Kall Jan 2016 #118

Deflect backward to post#87. If you please. oasis Jan 2016 #132

That's nice, dear. Squinch Jan 2016 #37

"I believe you have to fight, nothing is easy..." handmade34 Jan 2016 #41

People will vote for someone else or stay home if she's the nominee. JRLeft Jan 2016 #104

Or, I just think Hillary would make the better President nt firebrand80 Jan 2016 #44

She won't be corrupted by the corporate cash? JRLeft Jan 2016 #70

Things aren't so black and white nt firebrand80 Jan 2016 #86

She's bought and paid for, and that is as transparent as JRLeft Jan 2016 #140

Uh no. I think Hillary will make a better president. leftofcool Jan 2016 #49

If they were defeatist they would not support Clinton the way they do JI7 Jan 2016 #54

Nope, I just prefer Hillary, and think she will make an excellent president nt kjones Jan 2016 #65

What some think, and what some argue, might not be the same Babel_17 Jan 2016 #66

Some Bernie supporters seem to think they are mindreders. JoePhilly Jan 2016 #77

What? Is this some subtle McCarthyist crap? Ed Suspicious Jan 2016 #92

Good post but I don't agree with the last paragraph Populist_Prole Jan 2016 #80

I think you are spot on. Ed Suspicious Jan 2016 #93

Nail on the head Android3.14 Jan 2016 #85

i think bernie has a good chance if his supporters would not certainot Jan 2016 #95

I like living in the real world Gothmog Jan 2016 #103

You're saying vote for the corporate candidate who's not as bad as the JRLeft Jan 2016 #107

I am not willing to let the GOP control the direction of the SCOTUS with a candidate who cannot win Gothmog Jan 2016 #125

Understanding how gerrymandered congress's works does not mean people are defeatist just factual uponit7771 Jan 2016 #122

They realize that in the ge between Bernie and a republican, the republican will be much closer in Doctor_J Jan 2016 #138

For once you won't have to choose between the better of 2 evils. JRLeft Jan 2016 #143

I support Bernie because I feel the same way you do. PatrickforO Jan 2016 #151

No no no no no no no no tazkcmo Jan 2016 #152

The alternative is to claim it's either her or Republicans win. Spitfire of ATJ Jan 2016 #155

I do not find Tea Party legislation to "audit the fed" to be a "good idea." Neither does Krugman. NCTraveler Jan 2016 #160