2016 Postmortem

Doctor_J

(36,392 posts)

51. she seldom speaks the truth any more.

Mon Jan 18, 2016, 02:08 PM

Jan 2016

The truth is that she is practically a republican. She is a lying corporate conservative who doesn't deserve to be on the same stage with Sanders.

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My biggest problem with Hillary from last night. HILLARY'S LYING. [View all] retrowire Jan 2016 OP

As far as healthcare, Krugman seems to agree with her. So, it's time to throw him under the bus. Hoyt Jan 2016 #1

Sure he started it. Kalidurga Jan 2016 #2

I read Bernie's plan myself, so whoeever Krugman is... He can have his opinion that's just fine. retrowire Jan 2016 #3

I am curious to how we get there. Agschmid Jan 2016 #6

It really really really comes down to what Bernie's said from the beginning retrowire Jan 2016 #9

I plan on voting but I'm not sure it's enough to get us there. Agschmid Jan 2016 #11

no no no, we didn't vote retrowire Jan 2016 #16

You are right, lots of Dems didn't vote notadmblnd Jan 2016 #100

Too true. retrowire Jan 2016 #103

I had hoped people would learn something from it. Specifically- the 3rd way Democrats. notadmblnd Jan 2016 #105

In 2010 and 2014, progressive Dems largely held their own. The Blue Dogs got KingCharlemagne Jan 2016 #138

He fucking kept Bob Eichmann Gates as his Defense Sec. I was still KingCharlemagne Jan 2016 #135

Settled, status quo? Wow, I dont know where to start. randys1 Jan 2016 #202

I rewrote nothing. You mis-remember notadmblnd Jan 2016 #204

Your narrative is flawed. bvar22 Jan 2016 #193

When the midterms came up, and it was time to vote for congress retrowire Jan 2016 #194

Max Baucus. Third Way Corpo-dem stood in the way of single payer. Ed Suspicious Jan 2016 #19

IMO, Lieberman was a larger barrier jeff47 Jan 2016 #25

The bill ultimately passed by reconciliation. That's 50 plus Biden. merrily Jan 2016 #39

Rahm Emanuel. There were all those White House meetings before Baucus even got his mitts on it. merrily Jan 2016 #40

And, Max Baucus was later hugely rewarded for his obstructionism. bvar22 Jan 2016 #195

Thank you! That op was incredibly enlightening and deserves another run Ed Suspicious Jan 2016 #197

Don't you remember what happened in 2010? You know if America had a real education valerief Jan 2016 #24

No I don't remember every detail of 2010. Agschmid Jan 2016 #69

2010. Teabaggers glorified by media. We lost the House. valerief Jan 2016 #72

( '-') + 10k Marty McGraw Jan 2016 #125

AND state and local elections! nt tblue37 Jan 2016 #203

Dear doubters Plucketeer Jan 2016 #78

``this!`` Plucketeer! roguevalley Jan 2016 #94

Righteous words. Wow, great post. nt retrowire Jan 2016 #115

We may have voted, but that's all we did, we didn't continue to monicaangela Jan 2016 #137

Huh... what? Agschmid Jan 2016 #145

I'm happy to hear that, monicaangela Jan 2016 #190

how do you think life would have been under a President McCain AlbertCat Jan 2016 #183

Scifi? monicaangela Jan 2016 #191

Exactly, retrowire! That's his message. Duval Jan 2016 #90

The organizational structure for universal healthcare sulphurdunn Jan 2016 #63

Thank you for having an open mind. I myself am not sold on the plan, & as you know I support Sanders JonLeibowitz Jan 2016 #66

Step 1 - The Democratic Party start to actually support the concept Armstead Jan 2016 #110

How do we proceed? bvar22 Jan 2016 #122

Think it will pass? Agschmid Jan 2016 #123

Not this year, bvar22 Jan 2016 #127

The movement is growing monicaangela Jan 2016 #143

That was my Dad's advice to me if I ever wantd to get RICH bvar22 Jan 2016 #150

there was a guest on ed shultz the other day restorefreedom Jan 2016 #171

Thank You. bvar22 Jan 2016 #189

he was a great guest. exactly true about health care. the insurance scam restorefreedom Jan 2016 #196

it was lansing mayor virg bernero restorefreedom Jan 2016 #198

You might have trouble sleeping, monicaangela Jan 2016 #192

More like, "Pay me ongoing and expensive protection money to keep the route to the tblue37 Jan 2016 #205

Very well said! monicaangela Jan 2016 #206

Whoever Krugman is....??????? MADem Jan 2016 #32

Oh geez, should I be respecting or kissing this persons feet? retrowire Jan 2016 #34

I am simply a bit shocked that someone who reads DU regularly should refer to him as MADem Jan 2016 #45

Who called him some guy? retrowire Jan 2016 #48

"This person," then. "Whoever Krugman is...." MADem Jan 2016 #61

"Some random Laureate ... " nt eppur_se_muova Jan 2016 #107

Come on ... DU Rule #365: In the event that anyone, no matter how accomplished ... 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2016 #139

Yeah--you're right about that! MADem Jan 2016 #147

And if The Rev. Dr. Martin L. King were alive today ... 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2016 #156

No it hasn't. Kentonio Jan 2016 #167

Well ..You have declared me wrong. That settles it ... 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2016 #170

Why do you have this determination that King couldn't possibly have expanded his mission? Kentonio Jan 2016 #175

Also, ... GeorgeGist Jan 2016 #164

Right? Squinch Jan 2016 #60

I know!!!! MADem Jan 2016 #68

I guess Paul never realized that he needs to prove himself to some of our DU friends. Squinch Jan 2016 #102

Are you guys still giggling in a corner about how I'm not openly respecting retrowire Jan 2016 #117

Are you still in a corner saying that Paul Krugman is insignificant because you haven't Squinch Jan 2016 #121

What do you think? nt retrowire Jan 2016 #126

Krugman is the liberal economist who won the Nobel prize. He has a column pnwmom Jan 2016 #41

Is that supposed to earn my respect? retrowire Jan 2016 #43

He's a liberal. A progressive. To the point where he pnwmom Jan 2016 #57

Neat. nt retrowire Jan 2016 #74

Krugman also helped Bill Clinton sell NAFTA and "Free Trade" to the American people. bvar22 Jan 2016 #199

he's more of a centrist hfojvt Jan 2016 #81

And this is why titles mean nothing to me. nt retrowire Jan 2016 #118

For one thing he is not ignorant. For another, he is not arrogant. Squinch Jan 2016 #64

And he's very good but like all humans, he is not necessarily correct 100 percent of the time Armstead Jan 2016 #112

exactly. retrowire Jan 2016 #119

An economist not saying SHIT about the economics of the plan is unacceptable eridani Jan 2016 #172

Krugman's analysis leaves out profit. jeff47 Jan 2016 #5

Capitalist economists believe profits make the world go 'round. He can't account for removal Ed Suspicious Jan 2016 #21

How much do you think profit is out of the 15/20% cap on admin and profit imposed by ACA? Hoyt Jan 2016 #36

How about Gerald Friedman? retrowire Jan 2016 #46

That is one economist who did his rough calculations in September, before Sanders released his plan Hoyt Jan 2016 #52

Well, the plan is still fresh. We'll see what comes out then. nt retrowire Jan 2016 #53

Friedman actually prepared new calculations that anyone who wishes to can read. JonLeibowitz Jan 2016 #70

Where are they? I'd like to see myself ya know. nt retrowire Jan 2016 #76

Ask and ye shall receive.. JonLeibowitz Jan 2016 #77

Awesome! It looks great! nt retrowire Jan 2016 #82

Much of the administrative costs you cite are not actually subject to the MLR limit. jeff47 Jan 2016 #73

Calls to a nurse, probably. Calls about my claims, my reimbursement, my policy, doctors in network, Hoyt Jan 2016 #84

You think wrong. (nt) jeff47 Jan 2016 #87

Then, you should be able to produce the regulations. Hoyt Jan 2016 #92

Why should I bother? jeff47 Jan 2016 #99

Adjudicating of provider claims is an administrative cost. Hoyt Jan 2016 #114

Claims adjudication != paying claims. jeff47 Jan 2016 #133

Like I said, Nurse calls that save a doctor visit, not administration. Calls for claims, Hoyt Jan 2016 #142

Uh... kenfrequed Jan 2016 #79

Increasing because more people are insured. I agree the system needs reform. You gonna give up Hoyt Jan 2016 #89

*sigh* kenfrequed Jan 2016 #116

You are asking a question without facts. Rilgin Jan 2016 #157

It's more than 3% because it does include Part B premium collection by Treasury Department, Hoyt Jan 2016 #159

medicaire is already a "large program" a single payer one Rilgin Jan 2016 #160

First off, big health plans have a cap of 15%. Out of that would come the 6% or so, Hoyt Jan 2016 #161

So back tracking but not far enough. Rilgin Jan 2016 #163

Nope still saying profit us in 6% or so range, and that eliminating that makes a Hoyt Jan 2016 #165

You know, a lot of private insurance companies are technically non-profit Orangepeel Jan 2016 #80

Yeah...like that's not trivial to get around. jeff47 Jan 2016 #83

Even Democrats won't vote for Bernie's plan leftofcool Jan 2016 #50

And your proof for this is---?? dorkzilla Jan 2016 #67

There are Bernie signs all over my neighborhood, which is predominately Democrats. Duval Jan 2016 #98

YOU, Defending & Brought Up Krugman's Name At Another Thread... ChiciB1 Jan 2016 #144

So Piketty says Sanders' plan will do all things he promised by lowering everyone's outlay with Hoyt Jan 2016 #148

https://berniesanders.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/friedman-memo-1.pdf nt retrowire Jan 2016 #149

I appreciate Sanders' economist's projections. There are bunch of assumptions.Better wait for CBO. Hoyt Jan 2016 #151

To disagree with someone tazkcmo Jan 2016 #177

Sanders did that in 2009, his legislation died without much consideration from anyone. Hoyt Jan 2016 #201

As far as healthcare, Krugman seems to agree with her. AlbertCat Jan 2016 #182

Simple, we are talking about how to finance a health care for everyone. Believe it or Hoyt Jan 2016 #200

A thought occurred to me last night CountAllVotes Jan 2016 #4

oh yes. retrowire Jan 2016 #7

He has many pluses. I wonder what keeps him in the race? I'd love him as VP, libdem4life Jan 2016 #20

I think he complimented Senator Sanders very well notadmblnd Jan 2016 #120

Two white men from northeastern states with few electoral votes? pnwmom Jan 2016 #62

It will not fly. I agree Hiraeth Jan 2016 #86

This message was self-deleted by its author CountAllVotes Jan 2016 #88

Nope. Le Taz Hot Jan 2016 #179

She's putting her money on the ACA? SmittynMo Jan 2016 #8

And it's POSSIBLE retrowire Jan 2016 #10

The moderation stunk too. Moderators are not supposed to smile while candidates are being merrily Jan 2016 #12

We see through the bullshit. Fuck it all. nt retrowire Jan 2016 #13

No kidding! Enough already!! CountAllVotes Jan 2016 #93

And she was so obvious in her questions, etc, that she supports Hillary. Duval Jan 2016 #101

liar liar pants on fire dlwickham Jan 2016 #14

That's a pretty distorted view of things Gman Jan 2016 #15

Wow, excellent well thought out response. retrowire Jan 2016 #18

Hillary is also confusing "universal" healthcare and "single-payer." Vinca Jan 2016 #17

One of those disingenuous things about her. retrowire Jan 2016 #22

That really ruffled my feathers. Subterfuge, shifty, shady...yep, that's our Hill. And if anyone libdem4life Jan 2016 #23

I think "Medicare for All" is more easily understood by more people than single payer. merrily Jan 2016 #35

Good point. Vinca Jan 2016 #104

Kicked and recommended. Uncle Joe Jan 2016 #26

Thanks for the KnR Uncle Joe. :) n/t retrowire Jan 2016 #27

Yes she lied and her supporters and the Media knew she lied but praised her as if she was Royalty. INdemo Jan 2016 #28

Deferring to the late Senator Ted Kennedy Geronimoe Jan 2016 #29

He watched her not get it through a Democratic Congress. merrily Jan 2016 #37

Kennedy couldn't do it either. I think Congress is even more obstructionist now. Hoyt Jan 2016 #71

but the constituency Marty McGraw Jan 2016 #136

The many dishonest and hypcritical remarks I noted: 29 million in the US appalachiablue Jan 2016 #30

The only reason a hedge fund is running ads against her is they think Marco Rubio is a bigger Stooge Fuddnik Jan 2016 #31

She wants to start over again? With another trade agreement? jwirr Jan 2016 #33

Yes, there is truth to the statement that Bernie's plan would scrap the ACA and start over Orangepeel Jan 2016 #38

It is the weight with which she made that claim. retrowire Jan 2016 #42

exactly-- HIGHLY disingenuous. And linking it to Obama, acting as if Fast Walker 52 Jan 2016 #54

Well, that's an opinion, not a lie Orangepeel Jan 2016 #55

Dishonest implications exist. nt retrowire Jan 2016 #58

There are no "opinions" in politics mikehiggins Jan 2016 #178

It is NOT a lie that it would replace Obamacare, even if you think that's a good thing. pnwmom Jan 2016 #65

I said it would replace it. nt retrowire Jan 2016 #75

And the program zentrum Jan 2016 #44

Yeah, I always leave as soon as the debate finishes because of that. nt retrowire Jan 2016 #47

Totally. She totally turned me off with that crap. Fast Walker 52 Jan 2016 #49

she seldom speaks the truth any more. Doctor_J Jan 2016 #51

+1,000 !!! CountAllVotes Jan 2016 #91

+1,000,000 Auggie Jan 2016 #124

And her supporters simply do not care. LondonReign2 Jan 2016 #187

Lying is a Clinton Family trait. Good thing they have enough accumulated wealth to just fucking ... AzDar Jan 2016 #56

Single Payer would replace the Affordable Care Act (aka "Obamacare") Martin Eden Jan 2016 #59

Well said. nt retrowire Jan 2016 #95

If changes are going to be made, why not make an effort to go with the best solution? mdbl Jan 2016 #168

She attacked Bernie again about "wanting to primary Obama". She has to know the context, Duval Jan 2016 #85

I myself actually didn't know that retrowire Jan 2016 #96

Anytime, retrowire. Duval Jan 2016 #109

Of course she knows the context. So do many of the Hillbots on DU. But that doesn't Still In Wisconsin Jan 2016 #113

To paraphrase a popular Clintonism: "IT'S THE DISHONESTY, STUPID" Indepatriot Jan 2016 #97

Clinton has no interest past the ACA. DirkGently Jan 2016 #106

What else does Hillary have to run on? Lying and innuendo attacks are what she does best. Still In Wisconsin Jan 2016 #108

+1 CharlotteVale Jan 2016 #152

Last night her twitter page dragonfly301 Jan 2016 #111

From Goldwater Girl to Goldman Sachs Cheap_Trick Jan 2016 #128

Still a Republican. ozone_man Jan 2016 #162

Hillary wasn't lying, you just don't want to hear what she has to say. Beacool Jan 2016 #129

His plan will never pass? retrowire Jan 2016 #130

Yeah, let's bring camp pie in the sky for all. Beacool Jan 2016 #140

Your faith in the American promise is showing. retrowire Jan 2016 #141

sounds good to me wendylaroux Jan 2016 #146

She could give Lady Macbeth a lesson or three about the lust for power- nt KingCharlemagne Jan 2016 #131

Hillary Clinton is monicaangela Jan 2016 #132

MoM silenttigersong Jan 2016 #134

Ban The Liar billhicks76 Jan 2016 #153

Shit, Debbie Wasserman Schultz wants MORE marijuana users in prison, not less. Warren DeMontague Jan 2016 #154

YEPPPPPP nt retrowire Jan 2016 #155

No, I think it is worse than that. salib Jan 2016 #158

She's running a campaign that would make Karl Rove proud Bernblu Jan 2016 #166

Kicked and recommended! Recommend this fucker! Enthusiast Jan 2016 #169

Programmed to defend Wall St. at all costs. raouldukelives Jan 2016 #173

What are you Hillary haters going to do HelenWheels Jan 2016 #174

I'll vote for her to avoid trump retrowire Jan 2016 #180

There's that "haters" fundigelical nomenclature again! AlbertCat Jan 2016 #184

If you don't understand at this late date that politicians parse the language... randome Jan 2016 #176

rationalization. and retrowire Jan 2016 #181

Different viewpoints, different approaches. I have no problem with that. randome Jan 2016 #185

So you accept that behavior because it's normal. hmmm.. nt retrowire Jan 2016 #188

Accusing Clinton of lying is petty and childish unless... Nitram Jan 2016 #186