2016 Postmortem

Agschmid

(28,749 posts)

145. Huh... what?

Mon Jan 18, 2016, 04:11 PM

Jan 2016

Some of us voted and some of us kept up the battle, here in Mass. we worked to elect Elizabeth Warren. Some of us have been paying attention and trying to make a change the whole time.

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My biggest problem with Hillary from last night. HILLARY'S LYING. [View all] retrowire Jan 2016 OP

As far as healthcare, Krugman seems to agree with her. So, it's time to throw him under the bus. Hoyt Jan 2016 #1

Sure he started it. Kalidurga Jan 2016 #2

I read Bernie's plan myself, so whoeever Krugman is... He can have his opinion that's just fine. retrowire Jan 2016 #3

I am curious to how we get there. Agschmid Jan 2016 #6

It really really really comes down to what Bernie's said from the beginning retrowire Jan 2016 #9

I plan on voting but I'm not sure it's enough to get us there. Agschmid Jan 2016 #11

no no no, we didn't vote retrowire Jan 2016 #16

You are right, lots of Dems didn't vote notadmblnd Jan 2016 #100

Too true. retrowire Jan 2016 #103

I had hoped people would learn something from it. Specifically- the 3rd way Democrats. notadmblnd Jan 2016 #105

In 2010 and 2014, progressive Dems largely held their own. The Blue Dogs got KingCharlemagne Jan 2016 #138

He fucking kept Bob Eichmann Gates as his Defense Sec. I was still KingCharlemagne Jan 2016 #135

Settled, status quo? Wow, I dont know where to start. randys1 Jan 2016 #202

I rewrote nothing. You mis-remember notadmblnd Jan 2016 #204

Your narrative is flawed. bvar22 Jan 2016 #193

When the midterms came up, and it was time to vote for congress retrowire Jan 2016 #194

Max Baucus. Third Way Corpo-dem stood in the way of single payer. Ed Suspicious Jan 2016 #19

IMO, Lieberman was a larger barrier jeff47 Jan 2016 #25

The bill ultimately passed by reconciliation. That's 50 plus Biden. merrily Jan 2016 #39

Rahm Emanuel. There were all those White House meetings before Baucus even got his mitts on it. merrily Jan 2016 #40

And, Max Baucus was later hugely rewarded for his obstructionism. bvar22 Jan 2016 #195

Thank you! That op was incredibly enlightening and deserves another run Ed Suspicious Jan 2016 #197

Don't you remember what happened in 2010? You know if America had a real education valerief Jan 2016 #24

No I don't remember every detail of 2010. Agschmid Jan 2016 #69

2010. Teabaggers glorified by media. We lost the House. valerief Jan 2016 #72

( '-') + 10k Marty McGraw Jan 2016 #125

AND state and local elections! nt tblue37 Jan 2016 #203

Dear doubters Plucketeer Jan 2016 #78

``this!`` Plucketeer! roguevalley Jan 2016 #94

Righteous words. Wow, great post. nt retrowire Jan 2016 #115

We may have voted, but that's all we did, we didn't continue to monicaangela Jan 2016 #137

Huh... what? Agschmid Jan 2016 #145

I'm happy to hear that, monicaangela Jan 2016 #190

how do you think life would have been under a President McCain AlbertCat Jan 2016 #183

Scifi? monicaangela Jan 2016 #191

Exactly, retrowire! That's his message. Duval Jan 2016 #90

The organizational structure for universal healthcare sulphurdunn Jan 2016 #63

Thank you for having an open mind. I myself am not sold on the plan, & as you know I support Sanders JonLeibowitz Jan 2016 #66

Step 1 - The Democratic Party start to actually support the concept Armstead Jan 2016 #110

How do we proceed? bvar22 Jan 2016 #122

Think it will pass? Agschmid Jan 2016 #123

Not this year, bvar22 Jan 2016 #127

The movement is growing monicaangela Jan 2016 #143

That was my Dad's advice to me if I ever wantd to get RICH bvar22 Jan 2016 #150

there was a guest on ed shultz the other day restorefreedom Jan 2016 #171

Thank You. bvar22 Jan 2016 #189

he was a great guest. exactly true about health care. the insurance scam restorefreedom Jan 2016 #196

it was lansing mayor virg bernero restorefreedom Jan 2016 #198

You might have trouble sleeping, monicaangela Jan 2016 #192

More like, "Pay me ongoing and expensive protection money to keep the route to the tblue37 Jan 2016 #205

Very well said! monicaangela Jan 2016 #206

Whoever Krugman is....??????? MADem Jan 2016 #32

Oh geez, should I be respecting or kissing this persons feet? retrowire Jan 2016 #34

I am simply a bit shocked that someone who reads DU regularly should refer to him as MADem Jan 2016 #45

Who called him some guy? retrowire Jan 2016 #48

"This person," then. "Whoever Krugman is...." MADem Jan 2016 #61

"Some random Laureate ... " nt eppur_se_muova Jan 2016 #107

Come on ... DU Rule #365: In the event that anyone, no matter how accomplished ... 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2016 #139

Yeah--you're right about that! MADem Jan 2016 #147

And if The Rev. Dr. Martin L. King were alive today ... 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2016 #156

No it hasn't. Kentonio Jan 2016 #167

Well ..You have declared me wrong. That settles it ... 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2016 #170

Why do you have this determination that King couldn't possibly have expanded his mission? Kentonio Jan 2016 #175

Also, ... GeorgeGist Jan 2016 #164

Right? Squinch Jan 2016 #60

I know!!!! MADem Jan 2016 #68

I guess Paul never realized that he needs to prove himself to some of our DU friends. Squinch Jan 2016 #102

Are you guys still giggling in a corner about how I'm not openly respecting retrowire Jan 2016 #117

Are you still in a corner saying that Paul Krugman is insignificant because you haven't Squinch Jan 2016 #121

What do you think? nt retrowire Jan 2016 #126

Krugman is the liberal economist who won the Nobel prize. He has a column pnwmom Jan 2016 #41

Is that supposed to earn my respect? retrowire Jan 2016 #43

He's a liberal. A progressive. To the point where he pnwmom Jan 2016 #57

Neat. nt retrowire Jan 2016 #74

Krugman also helped Bill Clinton sell NAFTA and "Free Trade" to the American people. bvar22 Jan 2016 #199

he's more of a centrist hfojvt Jan 2016 #81

And this is why titles mean nothing to me. nt retrowire Jan 2016 #118

For one thing he is not ignorant. For another, he is not arrogant. Squinch Jan 2016 #64

And he's very good but like all humans, he is not necessarily correct 100 percent of the time Armstead Jan 2016 #112

exactly. retrowire Jan 2016 #119

An economist not saying SHIT about the economics of the plan is unacceptable eridani Jan 2016 #172

Krugman's analysis leaves out profit. jeff47 Jan 2016 #5

Capitalist economists believe profits make the world go 'round. He can't account for removal Ed Suspicious Jan 2016 #21

How much do you think profit is out of the 15/20% cap on admin and profit imposed by ACA? Hoyt Jan 2016 #36

How about Gerald Friedman? retrowire Jan 2016 #46

That is one economist who did his rough calculations in September, before Sanders released his plan Hoyt Jan 2016 #52

Well, the plan is still fresh. We'll see what comes out then. nt retrowire Jan 2016 #53

Friedman actually prepared new calculations that anyone who wishes to can read. JonLeibowitz Jan 2016 #70

Where are they? I'd like to see myself ya know. nt retrowire Jan 2016 #76

Ask and ye shall receive.. JonLeibowitz Jan 2016 #77

Awesome! It looks great! nt retrowire Jan 2016 #82

Much of the administrative costs you cite are not actually subject to the MLR limit. jeff47 Jan 2016 #73

Calls to a nurse, probably. Calls about my claims, my reimbursement, my policy, doctors in network, Hoyt Jan 2016 #84

You think wrong. (nt) jeff47 Jan 2016 #87

Then, you should be able to produce the regulations. Hoyt Jan 2016 #92

Why should I bother? jeff47 Jan 2016 #99

Adjudicating of provider claims is an administrative cost. Hoyt Jan 2016 #114

Claims adjudication != paying claims. jeff47 Jan 2016 #133

Like I said, Nurse calls that save a doctor visit, not administration. Calls for claims, Hoyt Jan 2016 #142

Uh... kenfrequed Jan 2016 #79

Increasing because more people are insured. I agree the system needs reform. You gonna give up Hoyt Jan 2016 #89

*sigh* kenfrequed Jan 2016 #116

You are asking a question without facts. Rilgin Jan 2016 #157

It's more than 3% because it does include Part B premium collection by Treasury Department, Hoyt Jan 2016 #159

medicaire is already a "large program" a single payer one Rilgin Jan 2016 #160

First off, big health plans have a cap of 15%. Out of that would come the 6% or so, Hoyt Jan 2016 #161

So back tracking but not far enough. Rilgin Jan 2016 #163

Nope still saying profit us in 6% or so range, and that eliminating that makes a Hoyt Jan 2016 #165

You know, a lot of private insurance companies are technically non-profit Orangepeel Jan 2016 #80

Yeah...like that's not trivial to get around. jeff47 Jan 2016 #83

Even Democrats won't vote for Bernie's plan leftofcool Jan 2016 #50

And your proof for this is---?? dorkzilla Jan 2016 #67

There are Bernie signs all over my neighborhood, which is predominately Democrats. Duval Jan 2016 #98

YOU, Defending & Brought Up Krugman's Name At Another Thread... ChiciB1 Jan 2016 #144

So Piketty says Sanders' plan will do all things he promised by lowering everyone's outlay with Hoyt Jan 2016 #148

https://berniesanders.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/friedman-memo-1.pdf nt retrowire Jan 2016 #149

I appreciate Sanders' economist's projections. There are bunch of assumptions.Better wait for CBO. Hoyt Jan 2016 #151

To disagree with someone tazkcmo Jan 2016 #177

Sanders did that in 2009, his legislation died without much consideration from anyone. Hoyt Jan 2016 #201

As far as healthcare, Krugman seems to agree with her. AlbertCat Jan 2016 #182

Simple, we are talking about how to finance a health care for everyone. Believe it or Hoyt Jan 2016 #200

A thought occurred to me last night CountAllVotes Jan 2016 #4

oh yes. retrowire Jan 2016 #7

He has many pluses. I wonder what keeps him in the race? I'd love him as VP, libdem4life Jan 2016 #20

I think he complimented Senator Sanders very well notadmblnd Jan 2016 #120

Two white men from northeastern states with few electoral votes? pnwmom Jan 2016 #62

It will not fly. I agree Hiraeth Jan 2016 #86

This message was self-deleted by its author CountAllVotes Jan 2016 #88

Nope. Le Taz Hot Jan 2016 #179

She's putting her money on the ACA? SmittynMo Jan 2016 #8

And it's POSSIBLE retrowire Jan 2016 #10

The moderation stunk too. Moderators are not supposed to smile while candidates are being merrily Jan 2016 #12

We see through the bullshit. Fuck it all. nt retrowire Jan 2016 #13

No kidding! Enough already!! CountAllVotes Jan 2016 #93

And she was so obvious in her questions, etc, that she supports Hillary. Duval Jan 2016 #101

liar liar pants on fire dlwickham Jan 2016 #14

That's a pretty distorted view of things Gman Jan 2016 #15

Wow, excellent well thought out response. retrowire Jan 2016 #18

Hillary is also confusing "universal" healthcare and "single-payer." Vinca Jan 2016 #17

One of those disingenuous things about her. retrowire Jan 2016 #22

That really ruffled my feathers. Subterfuge, shifty, shady...yep, that's our Hill. And if anyone libdem4life Jan 2016 #23

I think "Medicare for All" is more easily understood by more people than single payer. merrily Jan 2016 #35

Good point. Vinca Jan 2016 #104

Kicked and recommended. Uncle Joe Jan 2016 #26

Thanks for the KnR Uncle Joe. :) n/t retrowire Jan 2016 #27

Yes she lied and her supporters and the Media knew she lied but praised her as if she was Royalty. INdemo Jan 2016 #28

Deferring to the late Senator Ted Kennedy Geronimoe Jan 2016 #29

He watched her not get it through a Democratic Congress. merrily Jan 2016 #37

Kennedy couldn't do it either. I think Congress is even more obstructionist now. Hoyt Jan 2016 #71

but the constituency Marty McGraw Jan 2016 #136

The many dishonest and hypcritical remarks I noted: 29 million in the US appalachiablue Jan 2016 #30

The only reason a hedge fund is running ads against her is they think Marco Rubio is a bigger Stooge Fuddnik Jan 2016 #31

She wants to start over again? With another trade agreement? jwirr Jan 2016 #33

Yes, there is truth to the statement that Bernie's plan would scrap the ACA and start over Orangepeel Jan 2016 #38

It is the weight with which she made that claim. retrowire Jan 2016 #42

exactly-- HIGHLY disingenuous. And linking it to Obama, acting as if Fast Walker 52 Jan 2016 #54

Well, that's an opinion, not a lie Orangepeel Jan 2016 #55

Dishonest implications exist. nt retrowire Jan 2016 #58

There are no "opinions" in politics mikehiggins Jan 2016 #178

It is NOT a lie that it would replace Obamacare, even if you think that's a good thing. pnwmom Jan 2016 #65

I said it would replace it. nt retrowire Jan 2016 #75

And the program zentrum Jan 2016 #44

Yeah, I always leave as soon as the debate finishes because of that. nt retrowire Jan 2016 #47

Totally. She totally turned me off with that crap. Fast Walker 52 Jan 2016 #49

she seldom speaks the truth any more. Doctor_J Jan 2016 #51

+1,000 !!! CountAllVotes Jan 2016 #91

+1,000,000 Auggie Jan 2016 #124

And her supporters simply do not care. LondonReign2 Jan 2016 #187

Lying is a Clinton Family trait. Good thing they have enough accumulated wealth to just fucking ... AzDar Jan 2016 #56

Single Payer would replace the Affordable Care Act (aka "Obamacare") Martin Eden Jan 2016 #59

Well said. nt retrowire Jan 2016 #95

If changes are going to be made, why not make an effort to go with the best solution? mdbl Jan 2016 #168

She attacked Bernie again about "wanting to primary Obama". She has to know the context, Duval Jan 2016 #85

I myself actually didn't know that retrowire Jan 2016 #96

Anytime, retrowire. Duval Jan 2016 #109

Of course she knows the context. So do many of the Hillbots on DU. But that doesn't Still In Wisconsin Jan 2016 #113

To paraphrase a popular Clintonism: "IT'S THE DISHONESTY, STUPID" Indepatriot Jan 2016 #97

Clinton has no interest past the ACA. DirkGently Jan 2016 #106

What else does Hillary have to run on? Lying and innuendo attacks are what she does best. Still In Wisconsin Jan 2016 #108

+1 CharlotteVale Jan 2016 #152

Last night her twitter page dragonfly301 Jan 2016 #111

From Goldwater Girl to Goldman Sachs Cheap_Trick Jan 2016 #128

Still a Republican. ozone_man Jan 2016 #162

Hillary wasn't lying, you just don't want to hear what she has to say. Beacool Jan 2016 #129

His plan will never pass? retrowire Jan 2016 #130

Yeah, let's bring camp pie in the sky for all. Beacool Jan 2016 #140

Your faith in the American promise is showing. retrowire Jan 2016 #141

sounds good to me wendylaroux Jan 2016 #146

She could give Lady Macbeth a lesson or three about the lust for power- nt KingCharlemagne Jan 2016 #131

Hillary Clinton is monicaangela Jan 2016 #132

MoM silenttigersong Jan 2016 #134

Ban The Liar billhicks76 Jan 2016 #153

Shit, Debbie Wasserman Schultz wants MORE marijuana users in prison, not less. Warren DeMontague Jan 2016 #154

YEPPPPPP nt retrowire Jan 2016 #155

No, I think it is worse than that. salib Jan 2016 #158

She's running a campaign that would make Karl Rove proud Bernblu Jan 2016 #166

Kicked and recommended! Recommend this fucker! Enthusiast Jan 2016 #169

Programmed to defend Wall St. at all costs. raouldukelives Jan 2016 #173

What are you Hillary haters going to do HelenWheels Jan 2016 #174

I'll vote for her to avoid trump retrowire Jan 2016 #180

There's that "haters" fundigelical nomenclature again! AlbertCat Jan 2016 #184

If you don't understand at this late date that politicians parse the language... randome Jan 2016 #176

rationalization. and retrowire Jan 2016 #181

Different viewpoints, different approaches. I have no problem with that. randome Jan 2016 #185

So you accept that behavior because it's normal. hmmm.. nt retrowire Jan 2016 #188

Accusing Clinton of lying is petty and childish unless... Nitram Jan 2016 #186