2016 Postmortem

Empowerer

(3,900 posts)

129. I don't think you're stupid. I think you're disingenuous

Tue Jan 19, 2016, 11:14 PM

Jan 2016

You keep flipping back and forth. On the one hand, you attack anyone who pushes back on Sanders' ideas as impractical, claiming that they must be tried anyway. But on this issue, you push back on Coates because you say that reparations are impractical and shouldn't be pushed.

This is a consistent theme with the Sanders supporters. No matter what he does or says - even when he completely contradicts himself - you seem to believe he's infallible. And anyone who criticizes him, in even the mildest terms, you see as deeply flawed.

Coates' piece has bought this out in stark relief. There is no justification for Sanders' conflicting viewpoints on reparations vs. single payer or Wall Street reform, etc. If he truly believes that the degree of difficulty of success should not be any impediment to his fighting for something, that should apply across the board, not just to certain things. And if his supporters were honest and not so blinded by loyalty to him, they would acknowledge that this is an inconsistency in this approach.

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Ta-Nehisi Coates: Why Precisely Is Bernie Sanders Against Reparations? [View all] tishaLA Jan 2016 OP

Reparations? How would this happen? Seriously, where are the records needed to prove who is peacebird Jan 2016 #1

Mr Coates wrote an excellent article called "The Case for Reparations" tishaLA Jan 2016 #7

Please see this link, i just added it to my post above. peacebird Jan 2016 #8

I think it's great that Mr Nolan takes Mr Coates' argument seriously enough to issue a rejoinder tishaLA Jan 2016 #14

Well put tazkcmo Jan 2016 #207

I appreciate your open mind on this very complicated issue. Mr. Nolan's work is laudable, but Liberal_Stalwart71 Jan 2016 #279

Thank you for posting this. Ta is brilliant. underthematrix Jan 2016 #2

What is Hillary's plan to grant and distribute reparations. I mean, the realists in the party must Ed Suspicious Jan 2016 #3

I think you're missing the point. Most of Bernie's platform is ecstatic Jan 2016 #9

And there you have it. underthematrix Jan 2016 #20

as someone wrote in response to Mr Coates' article... tishaLA Jan 2016 #21

15% of Americans support reparations. SMC22307 Jan 2016 #139

I'm just curious. On what grounds do you oppose them? tishaLA Jan 2016 #141

I don't think they're fair to the many other groups that suffered greatly under greedy capitalists. SMC22307 Jan 2016 #421

I appreciate your contribution tishaLA Jan 2016 #423

Well, we are in agreement on this... SMC22307 Jan 2016 #425

I don't believe Sec Clinton OR Gov O'Malley would be better tishaLA Jan 2016 #427

Then what's the solution? SMC22307 Jan 2016 #428

LOL well fuck if that's off the table.... tishaLA Jan 2016 #430

LOL! SMC22307 Jan 2016 #431

Wasn't the majority of Americans against gay marriage? tia uponit7771 Jan 2016 #146

It had a solid majority supporting it by the time SCOTUS legalized it nationwide jfern Jan 2016 #154

Point being what a majority of people are for and against hasn't stopped progressives when... uponit7771 Jan 2016 #160

What reparations anyways? I've heard estimates of $14 trillion. jfern Jan 2016 #162

We put a man on the moon before I was born so figuring out WHAT to do is the easier part... uponit7771 Jan 2016 #164

A man on the moon is like a few hundred billion jfern Jan 2016 #166

Reparations COULD be a few million, no one is asking for the moon and yes ... Sanders, too me, is... uponit7771 Jan 2016 #169

A few million? Are you kidding? So like a quarter a black person? jfern Jan 2016 #173

No, free college education and a national level equalization for 1 - 12 grade... uponit7771 Jan 2016 #175

Bernie already has a free college education plan jfern Jan 2016 #177

Then government backed housing loans with guaranteed appreciation and government buyback after 5 uponit7771 Jan 2016 #180

Reparations of trillions of dollars is political suicide jfern Jan 2016 #189

Again, no one is asking for trillions of anything... and yes, the Native Americans can get their... uponit7771 Jan 2016 #195

Yes. Sometimes we get it wrong; sometimes right. SMC22307 Jan 2016 #422

Both are the moral thing to do uponit7771 Jan 2016 #434

One leaves out the descendants of others who also suffered greatly. SMC22307 Jan 2016 #437

No it doesn't, why .. where did that come from?! Native Americans need reparations too... give it to uponit7771 Jan 2016 #440

100% nailed it. Number23 Jan 2016 #38

Somewhere a bunch of Dynamite went BOOM!!! uponit7771 Jan 2016 #40

I think Mr. Coates missed the point on this issue. Admiral Loinpresser Jan 2016 #94

Then why not walk the walk on reparations, radical left on everything except reparations undermines uponit7771 Jan 2016 #138

A fair question. Admiral Loinpresser Jan 2016 #261

Bernie's platform is much more attainable than TNC's aikoaiko Jan 2016 #151

Because you believe it is unattainable does not mean that it is unattainable. nt. magical thyme Jan 2016 #242

Good. Same with healthcare. Ed Suspicious Jan 2016 #288

I was referring to Bernie's platform magical thyme Jan 2016 #368

What exactly in Bernie's platform is "virtually unattainable"? What would you deem unworthy? Vincardog Jan 2016 #289

Well, because reparations is such a stupid idea? earthside Jan 2016 #362

Where are you people getting this idea that I even so much as implied it was a bad idea? I just Ed Suspicious Jan 2016 #371

Stupid idea? Are you serious? Millions died and/or were enslaved ecstatic Jan 2016 #374

Yes. History can be horrible and ugly. earthside Jan 2016 #376

No, the point is that only Bernie is being asked about this. When you make it an attack on only cui bono Jan 2016 #386

He's not the only one being asked Empowerer Jan 2016 #415

Thet're still triangulating on this one Ferd Berfel Jan 2016 #18

There is this from her debate w/Lazio in the fall of 2000... PotatoChip Jan 2016 #25

Again, Hillary isn't promising unicorns or getting the unfeasible past a historically gerryrmandered uponit7771 Jan 2016 #41

Oh it must be because choie Jan 2016 #121

Or hasn't put it on his list? tia uponit7771 Jan 2016 #123

What a complete crock Kentonio Jan 2016 #443

Her plan is to give Ta-Nehisis Coates a job in her administration. closeupready Jan 2016 #275

Activist/Rapper KILLER MIKE & MORE ASK: *Why Attack BERNIE and Not Other Democratic Candidates? appalachiablue Jan 2016 #369

Exactly. Same thing happened with the BLM bruhaha. cui bono Jan 2016 #391

"I'm Sick & Tired of the Black Community Making BERNIE Jump Through Hoops", Black Media Host appalachiablue Jan 2016 #397

Because it's a political non-starter. Something politicians take note of. randome Jan 2016 #4

Yes, he quotes Sen Sanders at the beginning of the article tishaLA Jan 2016 #10

You and I are on the same page. He thought single payer and free college education... Liberal_Stalwart71 Jan 2016 #285

What other candidates have you asked about this? kenfrequed Jan 2016 #321

I've made it quite clear how much I hate the Clintons. Try again. Liberal_Stalwart71 Jan 2016 #341

So who do you support? kenfrequed Jan 2016 #344

I was asked this question upthread and I answered it. I support NONE of the candidates. Liberal_Stalwart71 Jan 2016 #348

Well again... I live in the real world. kenfrequed Jan 2016 #350

I started out as an O'Malley supporter because he was my governor and did some Liberal_Stalwart71 Jan 2016 #358

I see kenfrequed Jan 2016 #361

It's a non starter like 100% of his other proposals. uponit7771 Jan 2016 #42

Name one progressive policy that Clinton can get through a republican congress that Sanders can't arcane1 Jan 2016 #353

Coates' views on reparations are very well considered, and the issue goes far beyond Maedhros Jan 2016 #5

I don't want to pretend to speak for him, but I think Mr Coates' argument isn't that tishaLA Jan 2016 #12

That's fair criticism. Maedhros Jan 2016 #13

All of Sanders' proposals "would sink like a stone in today's Congress." SunSeeker Jan 2016 #232

The big finish is a superb summation..... MADem Jan 2016 #6

Could we just acknowledge, Sanders has very little paid staff, and they are spread very thin? snot Jan 2016 #229

Why focus on Sanders? Coates tells you why. SunSeeker Jan 2016 #233

Funny how he concludes that reparations for us Negroes is "too radical" and would never Liberal_Stalwart71 Jan 2016 #284

Because reparations will never TM99 Jan 2016 #11

First: I don't think a considered evaluation of a rhetorical stance is a "rant" tishaLA Jan 2016 #24

It began with slavery TM99 Jan 2016 #101

You really believe that "not all suffered" from structural racism/racial animus? tishaLA Jan 2016 #105

Can you show me definitive proof since the early 1800's that all have? TM99 Jan 2016 #107

" every damned AA, bi-racial, mulatto, etc" tishaLA Jan 2016 #108

Why? Is it some sort of 'gotcha' in your mind? TM99 Jan 2016 #109

quoting directly isn't cherry picking tishaLA Jan 2016 #111

Yes, you are cherry picking. TM99 Jan 2016 #244

You wrote: Things like single payer health care, free college, etc. Of those forms of impossibility, Liberal_Stalwart71 Jan 2016 #287

Sander is insincere? TM99 Jan 2016 #297

I don't care how many black people he has onstage with him. I'm not impressed. Liberal_Stalwart71 Jan 2016 #299

So you dismiss any black person TM99 Jan 2016 #302

Ugh! Not all black folk think alike, sir/ma'am. I'm free to disagree with...yes...even black people Liberal_Stalwart71 Jan 2016 #307

Hey you are the one throwing around the comment TM99 Jan 2016 #310

I don't "dismiss" them. I disagree with them on this one issue. Liberal_Stalwart71 Jan 2016 #343

". . . Why does one meet with immediate dismissal . . . ? Depaysement Jan 2016 #402

That's like saying Don't Ask, Don't Tell should have been dismissed tishaLA Jan 2016 #403

Bad analogy Depaysement Jan 2016 #409

i'd suggest you peruse tishaLA Jan 2016 #410

Yes I read this Depaysement Jan 2016 #413

I sure hope Mr Coates never quoted Nietzsche tishaLA Jan 2016 #418

Analogies Depaysement Jan 2016 #442

Neither will single payer, Sanders is the candidate of "Try Anyway" why not try with reparations? uponit7771 Jan 2016 #43

We will eventually have healthcare for all in this country. TM99 Jan 2016 #85

Will eventually have preparations also if we try won't we? uponit7771 Jan 2016 #87

Never. TM99 Jan 2016 #102

Funny thing. If you stall long enough, drag your feet long enough, oppress people long enough Empowerer Jan 2016 #115

The English seized some of my family's land in the 1300s. jeff47 Jan 2016 #165

That was hundreds of years ago, Federally supported Jim Crow and The War on Drugs was uponit7771 Jan 2016 #174

The complaint in that post is that people should not "get away with it" if enough time passes. jeff47 Jan 2016 #183

The War on Drugs is now and Hillary supports it even for pot Fumesucker Jan 2016 #240

OK, even better reason for reparations then... Sanders should push for it, that would be revolutiona uponit7771 Jan 2016 #258

Mr Coates doesn't focus an inordinate amount of his attention on slavery itself tishaLA Jan 2016 #176

The point of the 700-years-ago example jeff47 Jan 2016 #182

OK, thanks. nt tishaLA Jan 2016 #186

How could I have dragged my feet. TM99 Jan 2016 #245

Exactly. And methinks this has been the plan all along. Stall, stall, stall...oh, wait... Liberal_Stalwart71 Jan 2016 #291

Yes it does benefit all to fix what has been broken and we've had racial reparations in the US befor uponit7771 Jan 2016 #127

You seem to be mixing some concepts in your replies. TM99 Jan 2016 #246

1. Reparations is NOT a one off pay off, that's a winger meme, 2. MLK was an advocate of reparations uponit7771 Jan 2016 #257

Replies -- TM99 Jan 2016 #272

We will have Universal Healthcare but it won't be Sanders "Single Payer". KittyWampus Jan 2016 #253

Catch up Kitty. TM99 Jan 2016 #256

And that has NO CHANCE at all. We even tried that when BOTH houses were Liberal_Stalwart71 Jan 2016 #293

Well there you go. TM99 Jan 2016 #295

Obama didn't try to get single payer because he knew it wouldn't pass. Don't you get it? Liberal_Stalwart71 Jan 2016 #298

So Obama had the power of mind control TM99 Jan 2016 #300

Dude, do you know anything about how politics works? There's something called Liberal_Stalwart71 Jan 2016 #311

And the last resort of someone who is failing TM99 Jan 2016 #323

O.K., I'm sorry for being arrogant. Not my intent, really. I'm just frustrated with this whole Liberal_Stalwart71 Jan 2016 #336

Thank you. TM99 Jan 2016 #364

Except you and the rest of the Sanders supporter are wrong- single payer KittyWampus Jan 2016 #420

I am not wrong. TM99 Jan 2016 #445

Please inform your fellow Sanders supporters who relentlessly KittyWampus Jan 2016 #419

What we are discussing TM99 Jan 2016 #444

Obama stands firm against reparations Go Vols Jan 2016 #15

The "Try Anyway" candidate doesn't really care what Obama thinks, he's dogged Obama for years uponit7771 Jan 2016 #44

+ give the Indians their land back. Go Vols Jan 2016 #88

+ We mexicans want our land back too. azmom Jan 2016 #95

+1 Go Vols Jan 2016 #100

Seems the moral thing to do, but what about the reparations part? tia uponit7771 Jan 2016 #147

What's with the overuse of 'tia'? tia TheBlackAdder Jan 2016 #155

it's a red herring for people who don't want to address this rational question of reparations... uponit7771 Jan 2016 #157

Why don't you research it with peer-reviewed articles, as an answer won't be found on a board? TheBlackAdder Jan 2016 #171

Same reason as Bernie? Go Vols Jan 2016 #119

Try again. Obama didn't position himself as a REVOLUTIONARY, RADICAL candidate. Liberal_Stalwart71 Jan 2016 #294

I was posting facts Go Vols Jan 2016 #308

Facts about what? Nothing you posted made sense. Liberal_Stalwart71 Jan 2016 #345

Right.. Kentonio Jan 2016 #446

If you really want me to be honest, I believe Liberal_Stalwart71 Jan 2016 #448

He's going to be writing comic books this year. How can anyone take him seriously? Blue_Adept Jan 2016 #16

I'm a Bernie supporter and I also I think Ta-Nehisi Coates is one of the most important myrna minx Jan 2016 #17

Bernie's statement on reparations is the opening underthematrix Jan 2016 #19

I think it is VERY important that we choose the Democratic candidate that would best serve stillwaiting Jan 2016 #23

As an African American, I find Bernie offensive and underthematrix Jan 2016 #69

RACE IS CENTRAL AND FUNDAMENTAL TO OUR UNDERSTANDING OF ALL MATTERS... Liberal_Stalwart71 Jan 2016 #296

I am truly sorry you feel that the Left (me being part of that) is not much better than the Right. stillwaiting Jan 2016 #365

Sanders has counted congress out of 100% of his platform already except for reparations?! tia uponit7771 Jan 2016 #45

I'm sorry I don't understand your comment underthematrix Jan 2016 #71

The whole platform is improbable to get passed Congress why not just throw in another improbable ... uponit7771 Jan 2016 #73

I'm glad you weren't around when Social Security, Medicare, Civil Rights Act were being fought over Armstead Jan 2016 #90

I was around. underthematrix Jan 2016 #110

The people who were pushing them didn't think they were impossible Empowerer Jan 2016 #114

Read my post responding to reparations lower down the thread Armstead Jan 2016 #118

I don't think you're stupid. I think you're disingenuous Empowerer Jan 2016 #129

Life is full of nuances and paradoxes Armstead Jan 2016 #144

+1, the "try anyway" candidate isn't going to try on reparations ... I'd like to hear Sanders answer uponit7771 Jan 2016 #145

+1 Starry Messenger Jan 2016 #251

Well said. n/t JTFrog Jan 2016 #266

You don't know what I'm thinking. underthematrix Jan 2016 #134

No I only was very involved in exploring it in depth as part of my profession Armstead Jan 2016 #148

I'm not hearing Sanders is going to "try" anything on reparations... he's said it was nil no? tia uponit7771 Jan 2016 #143

Really? That's not the vibe I get. MADem Jan 2016 #267

Sigh. There is no ONE supporter of either Sanders or Clinton Armstead Jan 2016 #269

I think MOST do. I think you are mistaken--woefully so. And those BS supporters are going to be in MADem Jan 2016 #273

End of discussion Armstead Jan 2016 #277

I find his reticence to take the "idealistic" path VERY TROUBLING on this issue. MADem Jan 2016 #282

If someone wants to make a reparations a major campaign issue.... Armstead Jan 2016 #327

You keep missing the point. I'm starting to think that's deliberate...? MADem Jan 2016 #331

I'm not missing the point. I disagree with it. Armstead Jan 2016 #340

He doesn't have a problem tilting his little lance against fanciful issues that matter to white MADem Jan 2016 #454

Yeah, yeah...Sanders is a racist...... Definitely end of discussion. Armstead Jan 2016 #455

No. He's just not a REVOLUTIONARY when it MADem Jan 2016 #456

Okay he's only being racist because his supporters are Armstead Jan 2016 #457

He accepts the status quo. Were he genuinely "revolutionary" he'd be revolutionary MADem Jan 2016 #458

OK, great ... he's all for reparations then right?! uponit7771 Jan 2016 #142

If you want a race riots, then you'll be for reparations NYCButterfinger Jan 2016 #22

Now we care what those idiots think? uponit7771 Jan 2016 #51

I don't, but it's going to tear the country apart. It's time to accept the fact that NYCButterfinger Jan 2016 #63

if you think the horrible acts were centuries ago .... kwassa Jan 2016 #113

+1, some only think slavery... hell, the war on drugs is overtly racist its gob smacking... its ... uponit7771 Jan 2016 #149

Poster has never heard of the FHA JustAnotherGen Jan 2016 #237

I thought the Sanders folks wanted a "revolution?" Empowerer Jan 2016 #116

You went from zero to sixty right there. underthematrix Jan 2016 #132

So could Universal Health care when the majority of Americans wont be voting GOP... uponit7771 Jan 2016 #152

yes, you're making the same point Ta's was making in a round about way underthematrix Jan 2016 #328

LOL!! Love it! Liberal_Stalwart71 Jan 2016 #303

Who's side will you be fighting on? Honest question. Liberal_Stalwart71 Jan 2016 #354

I got it. retrowire Jan 2016 #26

German reparations to Jews post WW2 tishaLA Jan 2016 #28

I agree and thanks for the enlightenment. nt retrowire Jan 2016 #29

Yes but.. cannabis_flower Jan 2016 #342

Maybe I should add a link to his article "The Case for Reparations" because tishaLA Jan 2016 #351

And then there's this cannabis_flower Jan 2016 #352

That's fine tishaLA Jan 2016 #359

My father is still getting reparations from the German government stevenleser Jan 2016 #380

Yes they have, in the US with Japanese and in Germany with Jews uponit7771 Jan 2016 #46

the topic creator already informed me of this. good to know. nt retrowire Jan 2016 #112

There isn't the same level of support for reparations as democratic socialism Prism Jan 2016 #27

Among whom?!?! There's a large level of support for reporations from POC... there's even uponit7771 Jan 2016 #53

Among Americans generally Prism Jan 2016 #60

The same numbers were against gay marriage too... we didn't stop then why stop now? When the radical uponit7771 Jan 2016 #153

Bernie Sanders isn't a radical Prism Jan 2016 #172

That's great, neither is reparations... it's great economics, great politics and the right thing to uponit7771 Jan 2016 #178

Morally radical? No. Politically? Heaps. Prism Jan 2016 #184

There's no ground work for the 2.2% increase in payroll taxes for HCI payments but that hasn't kept uponit7771 Jan 2016 #188

Stating as clearly as I can Prism Jan 2016 #194

Let me say it clearly, 0% of Americans support a 8.4% increase in payroll taxes for single payer uponit7771 Jan 2016 #201

Depends how it's framed Prism Jan 2016 #216

Point being that trade has NOT been explained so far ... but that's part of the revolution Sanders.. uponit7771 Jan 2016 #224

You wrote: "I don't know why reparations would be the exception." Liberal_Stalwart71 Jan 2016 #305

Very good post, Prism nt tishaLA Jan 2016 #190

Thank you for sharing this. K&R nt NCTraveler Jan 2016 #30

Who's gonna get reparated? tularetom Jan 2016 #31

Mr Coates never said that his support for a candidate is based tishaLA Jan 2016 #32

But that implication is there in the quoted text elias49 Jan 2016 #34

Which implication? tishaLA Jan 2016 #35

To me, the implication is that Sanders is running elias49 Jan 2016 #36

Yeah, I never would have guessed that's what you thought he was implying tishaLA Jan 2016 #39

People who've been continually harmed by policies of the federal government based on race? tia uponit7771 Jan 2016 #47

... 99Forever Jan 2016 #33

Good googly... Number23 Jan 2016 #37

I think Coates ended Sanders run for prez with this article, somewhere a bunch of dynamite went boom uponit7771 Jan 2016 #49

Wow, that is some serious wishful thinking right there. Warren DeMontague Jan 2016 #52

No, Sanders "Try Anyway" mantra is dead if he screams congress as a roadblock because 99% of his uponit7771 Jan 2016 #54

Yeah, good luck. Warren DeMontague Jan 2016 #57

It's be easier to say Sanders is not a real "try anyway' candidate uponit7771 Jan 2016 #76

Okay, I'm going to "unpack" this nonsense, as they like to say on the tumblr. Warren DeMontague Jan 2016 #96

Nicely unpacked. Vattel Jan 2016 #137

Hillary Clinton has not said she doesn't support reparations--she has said we have to do a lot of MADem Jan 2016 #318

Reparations are not going to happen any more than Manhattan will be given back to Native Americans. Warren DeMontague Jan 2016 #349

I don't think that was his intent nor do I thik it will be the result tishaLA Jan 2016 #64

Unnnnnn, Sanders is the "try anyway" candidate... Why wouldn't he do at reputations?... Not trying o uponit7771 Jan 2016 #75

I don't disagree with that. But you said that Mr Coates tishaLA Jan 2016 #81

Hmmm.... Number23 Jan 2016 #84

positive was probably too strong tishaLA Jan 2016 #91

Absolutely. Number23 Jan 2016 #92

Yes, this is why I say figuratively he's ended Sanders campaign. On the other side if Sanders says.. uponit7771 Jan 2016 #128

I'm speaking figuratively not literally, Sanders technically has enough money to go beyond 2016 uponit7771 Jan 2016 #86

You're repeating yourself.. choie Jan 2016 #125

No to the same people and why not address the question? Radical left on everything except racial uponit7771 Jan 2016 #130

You wrote: "Coates is doing nothing but confirming what many, many black people have already said" Liberal_Stalwart71 Jan 2016 #315

You know it. Which is why this board is flooded with Sanders endorsements of every person Number23 Jan 2016 #320

I don't think Hillary supports reparations either cannabis_flower Jan 2016 #347

I love how you try to use Killer Mike to refute Ta-Nehisi Coates Number23 Jan 2016 #367

1) He isn't politically suicidal LittleBlue Jan 2016 #48

1. It's worked before in the US and Germany and 2. So does 99% of the rest of Sanders agenda... uponit7771 Jan 2016 #50

Disingenuous nonsense LittleBlue Jan 2016 #55

slavery plays only a minute role in Mr Coates' call for reparations tishaLA Jan 2016 #59

I'm not responsible for that LittleBlue Jan 2016 #62

He's actually addressing thins that continue even today tishaLA Jan 2016 #66

Then some other solution must be found to level the playing field LittleBlue Jan 2016 #68

Will care how it would be labeled just as long as it's specific towers the people who are harmed uponit7771 Jan 2016 #82

Luckily the Germans born since 1945 haven't stopped reparations to holocaust survivors stevenleser Jan 2016 #382

How many ex-slaves are alive today? How many Holocaust survivors? LittleBlue Jan 2016 #404

Well my father for one. And Coates reparation points arent regarding slavery. nt stevenleser Jan 2016 #405

Okay, then you understand the difference LittleBlue Jan 2016 #406

"Ta Nehisi Coates is a fraud." tishaLA Jan 2016 #56

I don't even agree with some of his other positions LittleBlue Jan 2016 #58

thank you for your resppnse tishaLA Jan 2016 #61

Sorry, I'm replying to multiple things at once LittleBlue Jan 2016 #65

Thanks, but I think I'd prefer not tishaLA Jan 2016 #67

Bernie is against reparations because it's stupid policy ram2008 Jan 2016 #70

Mr Coates has written extensively about this tishaLA Jan 2016 #72

Simply put: he's wrong ram2008 Jan 2016 #93

So you opposed, at least in theory, tishaLA Jan 2016 #99

If they tried to give out reparations >150 years later, yes ram2008 Jan 2016 #104

Yes - a racist society delays giving out reparations for 150 years and then claims it's "too late" Empowerer Jan 2016 #122

So we only venture to do that which is not "divisive" Empowerer Jan 2016 #120

I'll be sure to remember that the next time a Sanders supporter posts a "No we can't" response to Empowerer Jan 2016 #124

Sanders ideas are supported by many Americans ram2008 Jan 2016 #255

"Admitted the exact nature of our wrongs and became willing to make amends for them." wildeyed Jan 2016 #126

+1000 nt tishaLA Jan 2016 #179

So when exactly can we expect Secretary Clinton to come out in favor of reparations? Warren DeMontague Jan 2016 #236

Why doesn't Coates include Native Americans in his call for reparations? cherokeeprogressive Jan 2016 #292

Was it stupid for the German Jews or Japanese in America? uponit7771 Jan 2016 #77

Two completely different scenarios ram2008 Jan 2016 #97

This is false on its face, the incarceration rate for blacks now call for reparations... uponit7771 Jan 2016 #140

I would say refusing to even talk about reparations is what is keeping race relations back Recursion Jan 2016 #187

Read it and I will say this Truprogressive85 Jan 2016 #74

he never denies that, really tishaLA Jan 2016 #78

Again Truprogressive85 Jan 2016 #98

But Sanders is supposed to be be "try anyway" candidate... No matter how improbable the outcome try uponit7771 Jan 2016 #79

Regardless of what any candidate says, to not do reparations is an absolute disgrace randys1 Jan 2016 #80

And to argue the improbability of Congress on this point undercut his whole message of try anyway uponit7771 Jan 2016 #83

Many leftists are not supporting Sanders because azmom Jan 2016 #89

What is leftist about TNC? aikoaiko Jan 2016 #159

Coates is no more a leftist (anti-capitalist) than Sanders... AOR Jan 2016 #426

If he is not a leftist, then he is full azmom Jan 2016 #447

Let me take a swing at this Armstead Jan 2016 #103

thanks for a thoughtful reply tishaLA Jan 2016 #106

Reparations can take many forms, and most don't get that. kwassa Jan 2016 #117

Yeap,... the thought of just giving out tons of dough to people irks some uponit7771 Jan 2016 #136

Not only is he breaking it he's shattering it, he's unapologetically shattering the enveloe on so uponit7771 Jan 2016 #135

This straw man that Bernie should be for reparations because jfern Jan 2016 #161

No,... no it's not a strawman, it basically calls out Sanders "try anyway" stance no matter the uponit7771 Jan 2016 #211

I think you have to be clear exactly what you mean by reparations jfern Jan 2016 #230

Reparations could come in many forms ... not just handign out people tons of cash like America has.. uponit7771 Jan 2016 #259

I favor reparations HassleCat Jan 2016 #131

Posted to for later comment. eom. 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2016 #133

TNC is wrong. Universal health care is much more likely than reparations. aikoaiko Jan 2016 #150

You're making his point, Sanders isn't caring about the likely hood of anything he's going to try uponit7771 Jan 2016 #156

I disagree. Bernie think his platform is attainable aikoaiko Jan 2016 #158

Then why not reparations then? The economics of the issue alone makes since and its moral... uponit7771 Jan 2016 #163

If you think it is viable then have your candidate promise it. aikoaiko Jan 2016 #167

My candidate isn't the "try anyway" candidate, Sanders is... I'm not expecting that out of her... uponit7771 Jan 2016 #168

Bernie doesn't advocate for a lot of things people call leftist or radical. aikoaiko Jan 2016 #170

Reparations on attainable, good economics, good morals, good revolution. Universal Health care uponit7771 Jan 2016 #185

If you believe that than find a candidate who agrees with you. aikoaiko Jan 2016 #192

What group is singled out for reparations has nothing to do with whether it can be done... uponit7771 Jan 2016 #208

I know HRC supporters such as yourself love it when black activist beat up on Bernie for 'not being. aikoaiko Jan 2016 #219

I have no idea what you're talking about aikoaiko and stop generalizing people. Reparations ARE uponit7771 Jan 2016 #226

Coates is not a "black activist" - he's a renowned and highly respected scholar Empowerer Jan 2016 #243

This message was self-deleted by its author aikoaiko Jan 2016 #249

Okay then I want my family to get theirs too. Kalidurga Jan 2016 #181

That's not a problem with me, we can make one less carrier group per month and pay Mexicans uponit7771 Jan 2016 #191

No the question and you know it is not why isn't it part of Bernie's platform Kalidurga Jan 2016 #193

The DNC isn't calling itself revolutionary, it's not trying to pull asunder its own structure cause uponit7771 Jan 2016 #196

Thank you for making the case to not support the DNC. Kalidurga Jan 2016 #199

Got an answer to the rational question of why not reparations in Sanders platform? tia uponit7771 Jan 2016 #202

Sure as soon as the question is inclusive of all POC and rational. Kalidurga Jan 2016 #205

What does who is asking the question have to do with whether or not it should be answered? uponit7771 Jan 2016 #210

You don't get why I think all POC should be considered? Kalidurga Jan 2016 #213

We're talking about why reparations isn't in Sanders platform seeing all the other obstacles for uponit7771 Jan 2016 #221

There was a time when Bernie would never even call himself a Democrat. Liberal_Stalwart71 Jan 2016 #324

I will put you down for one who would root for Bernie to destroy the chances of a Democrat win. Kalidurga Jan 2016 #372

Do what you feel you must. Like you argue on behalf of Bernie, I'm a woman who stands Liberal_Stalwart71 Jan 2016 #378

Do you read what you post? Kalidurga Jan 2016 #384

I MEANT EVERY FUCKING WORD!! What's your problem? Liberal_Stalwart71 Jan 2016 #416

My problem is you meant every word, yet don't understand any of them. Kalidurga Jan 2016 #432

I should get land from the Ojibwa side AND the Mexican side artislife Jan 2016 #197

issues for PoC are not high on anyone's list Kalidurga Jan 2016 #200

I know that Indian school was terrible for my grandfather. artislife Jan 2016 #222

I might be in the same boat. Kalidurga Jan 2016 #228

I believe the Rare Earth Indian Reservation artislife Jan 2016 #271

I think we need to help ourselves and that's what I love about BLACKWEALTH underthematrix Jan 2016 #332

How many of you are watching PBS' Eye on the Prize? underthematrix Jan 2016 #334

We need to handle our business. Kalidurga Jan 2016 #370

Again, fine with me... build one less carrier group per month..even steven. Now why isn't uponit7771 Jan 2016 #203

I don't understand what you mean by build one less carrier group per month. TIA artislife Jan 2016 #215

Like tanks we have too many useless aircraft carrier groups that cost 100s of billions and is mostly uponit7771 Jan 2016 #217

Oh okay. I understand now artislife Jan 2016 #223

That COULD be part of reparations, I'm for that... I've said it in this thread if Sanders proffers . uponit7771 Jan 2016 #225

Until this thread, I hadn't seen a push for reparations artislife Jan 2016 #227

Sanders said no to them, to me that's counter revolutionary uponit7771 Jan 2016 #260

I can't wait to hear Hillary's plan for reparations. artislife Jan 2016 #270

You missed the point of Ta's article underthematrix Jan 2016 #339

Rabbit Proof Fence is a great film tishaLA Jan 2016 #206

You actually believe this? There are Sanders supporters IN THIS THREAD who acknowledge that MADem Jan 2016 #286

Yes, I think UHC is more likely than a certain type of reparation (large $$ payouts to individuals) aikoaiko Jan 2016 #290

This message was self-deleted by its author Joe the Revelator Jan 2016 #198

There are no moral arguments to why its silly and asking for a 8.4% increase in payroll taxes uponit7771 Jan 2016 #212

I guess it's officialy tazkcmo Jan 2016 #204

No, it's an article Mr Coates tweeted today tishaLA Jan 2016 #209

I'll apolgze to you. tazkcmo Jan 2016 #218

I agree 100% with everything you wrote tishaLA Jan 2016 #220

Or the right thing to talk about?! Cause this aint going away, TNC brings up a damn good point... uponit7771 Jan 2016 #214

Far more questions than answers Bernin4U Jan 2016 #231

No, reparations is not like the Bush v. Gore decision and payment for scalding coffee. SunSeeker Jan 2016 #234

The fact of the matter is, Bernie Sanders is far and away the most progressive, forward-thinking Warren DeMontague Jan 2016 #238

^This^ Zorra Jan 2016 #250

While I personally do support reparations, I have to ask... Ken Burch Jan 2016 #235

Long thread...anything about reparations to Native Americans? nt elias49 Jan 2016 #247

Yes, land lease and stop building 5 carrier groups per month uponit7771 Jan 2016 #265

Ok I'm for reparations steve2470 Jan 2016 #239

Those SAME NUMBERS hasn't stopped Sanders on UHC!! Why reparations!? tia uponit7771 Jan 2016 #264

Universal health care is a much easier sell, there's minimal or no racist argument against it steve2470 Jan 2016 #355

The stupid arguments are against it, they don't have to be racist stupid ...just stupid stupid.. uponit7771 Jan 2016 #436

The arguments against reparations by non-DU'ers are RACIST stupid... steve2470 Jan 2016 #452

Ok, outside of the progressive fold who cares... inside the progressive fold he would not uponit7771 Jan 2016 #453

Mr Coates supports the status quo because ... GeorgeGist Jan 2016 #241

Proffering what is right is now "radical"!? This point is that no matter how radical Sanders uponit7771 Jan 2016 #263

Not except for reparations. How about open borders? azmom Jan 2016 #280

No one who supports HRC takes the winger like villainizing seriously, it comes across as noise... uponit7771 Jan 2016 #438

I'll echo this bigtree Jan 2016 #248

It was very interesting to read. Made me stop and think and question my own views KittyWampus Jan 2016 #252

It is divisive because the major opposition are racists Agnosticsherbet Jan 2016 #254

Yeap, ... but what people have been saying in this thread is that a good portion of the dem... uponit7771 Jan 2016 #262

If Dems are agaisnt Tax increases, then Sanders agenda is dead in the water... Agnosticsherbet Jan 2016 #377

+1, and reparations doesn't mean paying trillions to the oppressed either... college programs, home uponit7771 Jan 2016 #435

As a Hillary supporter, I give Bernie credit for opposing the stupid idea of reparations. Nye Bevan Jan 2016 #268

Yup kenfrequed Jan 2016 #346

But the point is Bernie is not against it because he disagrees, he's against it for pragmatisms stevenleser Jan 2016 #387

This is one of the more interesting aspects of this thread Chitown Kev Jan 2016 #465

Yawn. closeupready Jan 2016 #274

ah, the new anti-Bernie meme of the day. This thread is going in the trash. liberal_at_heart Jan 2016 #276

What is infuriating to me is how Bernie seems to understand the "impossibility" of getting Liberal_Stalwart71 Jan 2016 #278

Sigh... welcome to the club, L_S Number23 Jan 2016 #306

I was always anti-Hillary and only lukewarm on Bernie. I thought a few PoC's liked Liberal_Stalwart71 Jan 2016 #330

I'm a Bernie supporter and I hold Mr Coates in high esteem. myrna minx Jan 2016 #335

I appreciate your words. That idea that making things right for those who have been negatively Liberal_Stalwart71 Jan 2016 #337

The fact that Mr Coates has introduced this idea to mainstream presidential politics is very encouraging myrna minx Jan 2016 #357

Yes, thank you. Much appreciated. I explain my stance in Post #350. I think there's learning Liberal_Stalwart71 Jan 2016 #360

Thank you for being patient with folks like me who have a learning curve. myrna minx Jan 2016 #373

i love your posts in this thread tishaLA Jan 2016 #379

When we, as a nation, are witnessing the purposeful, slow poisoning of the children of Flint Michigan, myrna minx Jan 2016 #390

What a thoughtful and obviously heartfelt analysis Empowerer Jan 2016 #417

You deserve a hundred standing ovations for this post Number23 Jan 2016 #366

Thank you. I have much to learn, but I'm trying. myrna minx Jan 2016 #375

Wonderful article gwheezie Jan 2016 #281

I've learned just a bit about different models of reparations recentlyand some are definitely doable aikoaiko Jan 2016 #283

There's a lot to read, but it seems to be a reasonable argument Bradical79 Jan 2016 #301

I'm not paying one red cent for what other people did a hundred odd years ago. Kurska Jan 2016 #304

In his (very long) essay, The Case for Reparations, Mr Coates tishaLA Jan 2016 #312

So when I am going to get reparations for not being able to marry for most of my life Kurska Jan 2016 #313

I would encourage you to pursue whatever remedies possible nt tishaLA Jan 2016 #316

Discrimination is best dealt with on a case by case basis of harm Kurska Jan 2016 #317

So you don't oppose reparations per se, then, but you think we need individual plaintiffs? tishaLA Jan 2016 #319

Isn't that literally what a discrimination lawsuit is for? Kurska Jan 2016 #325

My ancestors were enslaved by the Holy Roman Empire. Nye Bevan Jan 2016 #356

Because reparations aren't radical... MellowDem Jan 2016 #309

please see my post immediately above yours tishaLA Jan 2016 #314

It's even worse... MellowDem Jan 2016 #322

Coates doesn't say they "feed structural racial inequality" tishaLA Jan 2016 #326

The courts aren't perfect... MellowDem Jan 2016 #329

folks smarter than I have proposed a number of ways to implement reparations tishaLA Jan 2016 #333

Yes. it is a good essay kenfrequed Jan 2016 #338

Good point Stimoyo Jan 2016 #363

What puke Depaysement Jan 2016 #381

You should probably familiarize yourself with Mr Coates' writings on reparations tishaLA Jan 2016 #383

I am well aware of what happened in the antebellum south and afterwards Depaysement Jan 2016 #395

Benjamin Dixon: Why isn't this being asked about Hillary or O'Malley? cui bono Jan 2016 #385

I'm guessing you missed Mr Coates on Chris Hayes tishaLA Jan 2016 #388

Sorry, but that doesn't make any sense. cui bono Jan 2016 #394

You construe it as an attack; I don't tishaLA Jan 2016 #396

But it wasn't just any white liberal. TM99 Jan 2016 #407

Yes, I do. Had he directed the same question to all candidates I would not. cui bono Jan 2016 #424

but, CB, he didnt direct the question tishaLA Jan 2016 #429

Thanks for the info. I will watch the video. n/t cui bono Jan 2016 #439

make this an OP please? eom Arazi Jan 2016 #389

I linked to the OP about this. n/t cui bono Jan 2016 #392

It really outlines the dishonesty of TNC on this. Instructive eom Arazi Jan 2016 #393

because Obviously, Hillary cannot run on the issues. Warren DeMontague Jan 2016 #398

Because its the hypocrisy, not the particular stance on the issue. Not sure why this is so hard. stevenleser Jan 2016 #466

Long thread with a lot of interesting replies.... AOR Jan 2016 #399

I kept waiting for you to address Coates points and stop with the ad-hominem against him but that stevenleser Jan 2016 #400

First post in close to a month Steven... AOR Jan 2016 #408

Nope. I was waiting as I was reading your post. Would you address any of the points Coates actually stevenleser Jan 2016 #449

As far as leftist political analysis is concerned... AOR Jan 2016 #462

There is no hypocrisy in leftism? Hmmm. I don't think that's right. nt stevenleser Jan 2016 #467

In fact, he argues precisely that reparations are THE tool because tishaLA Jan 2016 #401

Lip-service is not understanding... AOR Jan 2016 #411

the internet's great because you can find people who assert almost anything tishaLA Jan 2016 #414

The question remains... AOR Jan 2016 #433

This message was self-deleted by its author YoungDemCA Jan 2016 #450

Someone hijack your account over the years ? AOR Jan 2016 #459

Wow. That left a mark: "There are no outs here for you and Starry." Romulox Jan 2016 #460

This message was self-deleted by its author YoungDemCA Jan 2016 #461

This message was self-deleted by its author snot Jan 2016 #412

I'm voting for Bernie olddots Jan 2016 #441

Why? Because he doesn't want to alienate middle class white voters YoungDemCA Jan 2016 #451

The thing that bothered me about this discussion Blue_In_AK Jan 2016 #463

k & r lovemydog Jan 2016 #464