2016 Postmortem

Warren DeMontague

(80,708 posts)

238. The fact of the matter is, Bernie Sanders is far and away the most progressive, forward-thinking

Wed Jan 20, 2016, 04:57 AM

Jan 2016

candidate in this race, on pretty much every damn issue there is.

So lacking any real basis on which to make a progressive argument to progressives to support the less-progressive, status quo candidate (and let's not kid ourselves, we all know that's exactly what this is about) we've been treated to 5-6 months of lame gibberish about "But ZOMG O NO Bernie and his Supporters are ____!!!!!!!",white supremacists or unmitigated racists being 2 favorite fill in the blanks, along with all sorts of made-up hyperventilating about completely manufactured nonsense.

I think people should just be honest, "I support Hillary Clinton for President for the same reason Hillary Clinton supports Hillary Clinton for President, namely, I REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY want Hillary Clinton to be the President".

Just cut the pretense, already.

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Ta-Nehisi Coates: Why Precisely Is Bernie Sanders Against Reparations? [View all] tishaLA Jan 2016 OP

Reparations? How would this happen? Seriously, where are the records needed to prove who is peacebird Jan 2016 #1

Mr Coates wrote an excellent article called "The Case for Reparations" tishaLA Jan 2016 #7

Please see this link, i just added it to my post above. peacebird Jan 2016 #8

I think it's great that Mr Nolan takes Mr Coates' argument seriously enough to issue a rejoinder tishaLA Jan 2016 #14

Well put tazkcmo Jan 2016 #207

I appreciate your open mind on this very complicated issue. Mr. Nolan's work is laudable, but Liberal_Stalwart71 Jan 2016 #279

Thank you for posting this. Ta is brilliant. underthematrix Jan 2016 #2

What is Hillary's plan to grant and distribute reparations. I mean, the realists in the party must Ed Suspicious Jan 2016 #3

I think you're missing the point. Most of Bernie's platform is ecstatic Jan 2016 #9

And there you have it. underthematrix Jan 2016 #20

as someone wrote in response to Mr Coates' article... tishaLA Jan 2016 #21

15% of Americans support reparations. SMC22307 Jan 2016 #139

I'm just curious. On what grounds do you oppose them? tishaLA Jan 2016 #141

I don't think they're fair to the many other groups that suffered greatly under greedy capitalists. SMC22307 Jan 2016 #421

I appreciate your contribution tishaLA Jan 2016 #423

Well, we are in agreement on this... SMC22307 Jan 2016 #425

I don't believe Sec Clinton OR Gov O'Malley would be better tishaLA Jan 2016 #427

Then what's the solution? SMC22307 Jan 2016 #428

LOL well fuck if that's off the table.... tishaLA Jan 2016 #430

LOL! SMC22307 Jan 2016 #431

Wasn't the majority of Americans against gay marriage? tia uponit7771 Jan 2016 #146

It had a solid majority supporting it by the time SCOTUS legalized it nationwide jfern Jan 2016 #154

Point being what a majority of people are for and against hasn't stopped progressives when... uponit7771 Jan 2016 #160

What reparations anyways? I've heard estimates of $14 trillion. jfern Jan 2016 #162

We put a man on the moon before I was born so figuring out WHAT to do is the easier part... uponit7771 Jan 2016 #164

A man on the moon is like a few hundred billion jfern Jan 2016 #166

Reparations COULD be a few million, no one is asking for the moon and yes ... Sanders, too me, is... uponit7771 Jan 2016 #169

A few million? Are you kidding? So like a quarter a black person? jfern Jan 2016 #173

No, free college education and a national level equalization for 1 - 12 grade... uponit7771 Jan 2016 #175

Bernie already has a free college education plan jfern Jan 2016 #177

Then government backed housing loans with guaranteed appreciation and government buyback after 5 uponit7771 Jan 2016 #180

Reparations of trillions of dollars is political suicide jfern Jan 2016 #189

Again, no one is asking for trillions of anything... and yes, the Native Americans can get their... uponit7771 Jan 2016 #195

Yes. Sometimes we get it wrong; sometimes right. SMC22307 Jan 2016 #422

Both are the moral thing to do uponit7771 Jan 2016 #434

One leaves out the descendants of others who also suffered greatly. SMC22307 Jan 2016 #437

No it doesn't, why .. where did that come from?! Native Americans need reparations too... give it to uponit7771 Jan 2016 #440

100% nailed it. Number23 Jan 2016 #38

Somewhere a bunch of Dynamite went BOOM!!! uponit7771 Jan 2016 #40

I think Mr. Coates missed the point on this issue. Admiral Loinpresser Jan 2016 #94

Then why not walk the walk on reparations, radical left on everything except reparations undermines uponit7771 Jan 2016 #138

A fair question. Admiral Loinpresser Jan 2016 #261

Bernie's platform is much more attainable than TNC's aikoaiko Jan 2016 #151

Because you believe it is unattainable does not mean that it is unattainable. nt. magical thyme Jan 2016 #242

Good. Same with healthcare. Ed Suspicious Jan 2016 #288

I was referring to Bernie's platform magical thyme Jan 2016 #368

What exactly in Bernie's platform is "virtually unattainable"? What would you deem unworthy? Vincardog Jan 2016 #289

Well, because reparations is such a stupid idea? earthside Jan 2016 #362

Where are you people getting this idea that I even so much as implied it was a bad idea? I just Ed Suspicious Jan 2016 #371

Stupid idea? Are you serious? Millions died and/or were enslaved ecstatic Jan 2016 #374

Yes. History can be horrible and ugly. earthside Jan 2016 #376

No, the point is that only Bernie is being asked about this. When you make it an attack on only cui bono Jan 2016 #386

He's not the only one being asked Empowerer Jan 2016 #415

Thet're still triangulating on this one Ferd Berfel Jan 2016 #18

There is this from her debate w/Lazio in the fall of 2000... PotatoChip Jan 2016 #25

Again, Hillary isn't promising unicorns or getting the unfeasible past a historically gerryrmandered uponit7771 Jan 2016 #41

Oh it must be because choie Jan 2016 #121

Or hasn't put it on his list? tia uponit7771 Jan 2016 #123

What a complete crock Kentonio Jan 2016 #443

Her plan is to give Ta-Nehisis Coates a job in her administration. closeupready Jan 2016 #275

Activist/Rapper KILLER MIKE & MORE ASK: *Why Attack BERNIE and Not Other Democratic Candidates? appalachiablue Jan 2016 #369

Exactly. Same thing happened with the BLM bruhaha. cui bono Jan 2016 #391

"I'm Sick & Tired of the Black Community Making BERNIE Jump Through Hoops", Black Media Host appalachiablue Jan 2016 #397

Because it's a political non-starter. Something politicians take note of. randome Jan 2016 #4

Yes, he quotes Sen Sanders at the beginning of the article tishaLA Jan 2016 #10

You and I are on the same page. He thought single payer and free college education... Liberal_Stalwart71 Jan 2016 #285

What other candidates have you asked about this? kenfrequed Jan 2016 #321

I've made it quite clear how much I hate the Clintons. Try again. Liberal_Stalwart71 Jan 2016 #341

So who do you support? kenfrequed Jan 2016 #344

I was asked this question upthread and I answered it. I support NONE of the candidates. Liberal_Stalwart71 Jan 2016 #348

Well again... I live in the real world. kenfrequed Jan 2016 #350

I started out as an O'Malley supporter because he was my governor and did some Liberal_Stalwart71 Jan 2016 #358

I see kenfrequed Jan 2016 #361

It's a non starter like 100% of his other proposals. uponit7771 Jan 2016 #42

Name one progressive policy that Clinton can get through a republican congress that Sanders can't arcane1 Jan 2016 #353

Coates' views on reparations are very well considered, and the issue goes far beyond Maedhros Jan 2016 #5

I don't want to pretend to speak for him, but I think Mr Coates' argument isn't that tishaLA Jan 2016 #12

That's fair criticism. Maedhros Jan 2016 #13

All of Sanders' proposals "would sink like a stone in today's Congress." SunSeeker Jan 2016 #232

The big finish is a superb summation..... MADem Jan 2016 #6

Could we just acknowledge, Sanders has very little paid staff, and they are spread very thin? snot Jan 2016 #229

Why focus on Sanders? Coates tells you why. SunSeeker Jan 2016 #233

Funny how he concludes that reparations for us Negroes is "too radical" and would never Liberal_Stalwart71 Jan 2016 #284

Because reparations will never TM99 Jan 2016 #11

First: I don't think a considered evaluation of a rhetorical stance is a "rant" tishaLA Jan 2016 #24

It began with slavery TM99 Jan 2016 #101

You really believe that "not all suffered" from structural racism/racial animus? tishaLA Jan 2016 #105

Can you show me definitive proof since the early 1800's that all have? TM99 Jan 2016 #107

" every damned AA, bi-racial, mulatto, etc" tishaLA Jan 2016 #108

Why? Is it some sort of 'gotcha' in your mind? TM99 Jan 2016 #109

quoting directly isn't cherry picking tishaLA Jan 2016 #111

Yes, you are cherry picking. TM99 Jan 2016 #244

You wrote: Things like single payer health care, free college, etc. Of those forms of impossibility, Liberal_Stalwart71 Jan 2016 #287

Sander is insincere? TM99 Jan 2016 #297

I don't care how many black people he has onstage with him. I'm not impressed. Liberal_Stalwart71 Jan 2016 #299

So you dismiss any black person TM99 Jan 2016 #302

Ugh! Not all black folk think alike, sir/ma'am. I'm free to disagree with...yes...even black people Liberal_Stalwart71 Jan 2016 #307

Hey you are the one throwing around the comment TM99 Jan 2016 #310

I don't "dismiss" them. I disagree with them on this one issue. Liberal_Stalwart71 Jan 2016 #343

". . . Why does one meet with immediate dismissal . . . ? Depaysement Jan 2016 #402

That's like saying Don't Ask, Don't Tell should have been dismissed tishaLA Jan 2016 #403

Bad analogy Depaysement Jan 2016 #409

i'd suggest you peruse tishaLA Jan 2016 #410

Yes I read this Depaysement Jan 2016 #413

I sure hope Mr Coates never quoted Nietzsche tishaLA Jan 2016 #418

Analogies Depaysement Jan 2016 #442

Neither will single payer, Sanders is the candidate of "Try Anyway" why not try with reparations? uponit7771 Jan 2016 #43

We will eventually have healthcare for all in this country. TM99 Jan 2016 #85

Will eventually have preparations also if we try won't we? uponit7771 Jan 2016 #87

Never. TM99 Jan 2016 #102

Funny thing. If you stall long enough, drag your feet long enough, oppress people long enough Empowerer Jan 2016 #115

The English seized some of my family's land in the 1300s. jeff47 Jan 2016 #165

That was hundreds of years ago, Federally supported Jim Crow and The War on Drugs was uponit7771 Jan 2016 #174

The complaint in that post is that people should not "get away with it" if enough time passes. jeff47 Jan 2016 #183

The War on Drugs is now and Hillary supports it even for pot Fumesucker Jan 2016 #240

OK, even better reason for reparations then... Sanders should push for it, that would be revolutiona uponit7771 Jan 2016 #258

Mr Coates doesn't focus an inordinate amount of his attention on slavery itself tishaLA Jan 2016 #176

The point of the 700-years-ago example jeff47 Jan 2016 #182

OK, thanks. nt tishaLA Jan 2016 #186

How could I have dragged my feet. TM99 Jan 2016 #245

Exactly. And methinks this has been the plan all along. Stall, stall, stall...oh, wait... Liberal_Stalwart71 Jan 2016 #291

Yes it does benefit all to fix what has been broken and we've had racial reparations in the US befor uponit7771 Jan 2016 #127

You seem to be mixing some concepts in your replies. TM99 Jan 2016 #246

1. Reparations is NOT a one off pay off, that's a winger meme, 2. MLK was an advocate of reparations uponit7771 Jan 2016 #257

Replies -- TM99 Jan 2016 #272

We will have Universal Healthcare but it won't be Sanders "Single Payer". KittyWampus Jan 2016 #253

Catch up Kitty. TM99 Jan 2016 #256

And that has NO CHANCE at all. We even tried that when BOTH houses were Liberal_Stalwart71 Jan 2016 #293

Well there you go. TM99 Jan 2016 #295

Obama didn't try to get single payer because he knew it wouldn't pass. Don't you get it? Liberal_Stalwart71 Jan 2016 #298

So Obama had the power of mind control TM99 Jan 2016 #300

Dude, do you know anything about how politics works? There's something called Liberal_Stalwart71 Jan 2016 #311

And the last resort of someone who is failing TM99 Jan 2016 #323

O.K., I'm sorry for being arrogant. Not my intent, really. I'm just frustrated with this whole Liberal_Stalwart71 Jan 2016 #336

Thank you. TM99 Jan 2016 #364

Except you and the rest of the Sanders supporter are wrong- single payer KittyWampus Jan 2016 #420

I am not wrong. TM99 Jan 2016 #445

Please inform your fellow Sanders supporters who relentlessly KittyWampus Jan 2016 #419

What we are discussing TM99 Jan 2016 #444

Obama stands firm against reparations Go Vols Jan 2016 #15

The "Try Anyway" candidate doesn't really care what Obama thinks, he's dogged Obama for years uponit7771 Jan 2016 #44

+ give the Indians their land back. Go Vols Jan 2016 #88

+ We mexicans want our land back too. azmom Jan 2016 #95

+1 Go Vols Jan 2016 #100

Seems the moral thing to do, but what about the reparations part? tia uponit7771 Jan 2016 #147

What's with the overuse of 'tia'? tia TheBlackAdder Jan 2016 #155

it's a red herring for people who don't want to address this rational question of reparations... uponit7771 Jan 2016 #157

Why don't you research it with peer-reviewed articles, as an answer won't be found on a board? TheBlackAdder Jan 2016 #171

Same reason as Bernie? Go Vols Jan 2016 #119

Try again. Obama didn't position himself as a REVOLUTIONARY, RADICAL candidate. Liberal_Stalwart71 Jan 2016 #294

I was posting facts Go Vols Jan 2016 #308

Facts about what? Nothing you posted made sense. Liberal_Stalwart71 Jan 2016 #345

Right.. Kentonio Jan 2016 #446

If you really want me to be honest, I believe Liberal_Stalwart71 Jan 2016 #448

He's going to be writing comic books this year. How can anyone take him seriously? Blue_Adept Jan 2016 #16

I'm a Bernie supporter and I also I think Ta-Nehisi Coates is one of the most important myrna minx Jan 2016 #17

Bernie's statement on reparations is the opening underthematrix Jan 2016 #19

I think it is VERY important that we choose the Democratic candidate that would best serve stillwaiting Jan 2016 #23

As an African American, I find Bernie offensive and underthematrix Jan 2016 #69

RACE IS CENTRAL AND FUNDAMENTAL TO OUR UNDERSTANDING OF ALL MATTERS... Liberal_Stalwart71 Jan 2016 #296

I am truly sorry you feel that the Left (me being part of that) is not much better than the Right. stillwaiting Jan 2016 #365

Sanders has counted congress out of 100% of his platform already except for reparations?! tia uponit7771 Jan 2016 #45

I'm sorry I don't understand your comment underthematrix Jan 2016 #71

The whole platform is improbable to get passed Congress why not just throw in another improbable ... uponit7771 Jan 2016 #73

I'm glad you weren't around when Social Security, Medicare, Civil Rights Act were being fought over Armstead Jan 2016 #90

I was around. underthematrix Jan 2016 #110

The people who were pushing them didn't think they were impossible Empowerer Jan 2016 #114

Read my post responding to reparations lower down the thread Armstead Jan 2016 #118

I don't think you're stupid. I think you're disingenuous Empowerer Jan 2016 #129

Life is full of nuances and paradoxes Armstead Jan 2016 #144

+1, the "try anyway" candidate isn't going to try on reparations ... I'd like to hear Sanders answer uponit7771 Jan 2016 #145

+1 Starry Messenger Jan 2016 #251

Well said. n/t JTFrog Jan 2016 #266

You don't know what I'm thinking. underthematrix Jan 2016 #134

No I only was very involved in exploring it in depth as part of my profession Armstead Jan 2016 #148

I'm not hearing Sanders is going to "try" anything on reparations... he's said it was nil no? tia uponit7771 Jan 2016 #143

Really? That's not the vibe I get. MADem Jan 2016 #267

Sigh. There is no ONE supporter of either Sanders or Clinton Armstead Jan 2016 #269

I think MOST do. I think you are mistaken--woefully so. And those BS supporters are going to be in MADem Jan 2016 #273

End of discussion Armstead Jan 2016 #277

I find his reticence to take the "idealistic" path VERY TROUBLING on this issue. MADem Jan 2016 #282

If someone wants to make a reparations a major campaign issue.... Armstead Jan 2016 #327

You keep missing the point. I'm starting to think that's deliberate...? MADem Jan 2016 #331

I'm not missing the point. I disagree with it. Armstead Jan 2016 #340

He doesn't have a problem tilting his little lance against fanciful issues that matter to white MADem Jan 2016 #454

Yeah, yeah...Sanders is a racist...... Definitely end of discussion. Armstead Jan 2016 #455

No. He's just not a REVOLUTIONARY when it MADem Jan 2016 #456

Okay he's only being racist because his supporters are Armstead Jan 2016 #457

He accepts the status quo. Were he genuinely "revolutionary" he'd be revolutionary MADem Jan 2016 #458

OK, great ... he's all for reparations then right?! uponit7771 Jan 2016 #142

If you want a race riots, then you'll be for reparations NYCButterfinger Jan 2016 #22

Now we care what those idiots think? uponit7771 Jan 2016 #51

I don't, but it's going to tear the country apart. It's time to accept the fact that NYCButterfinger Jan 2016 #63

if you think the horrible acts were centuries ago .... kwassa Jan 2016 #113

+1, some only think slavery... hell, the war on drugs is overtly racist its gob smacking... its ... uponit7771 Jan 2016 #149

Poster has never heard of the FHA JustAnotherGen Jan 2016 #237

I thought the Sanders folks wanted a "revolution?" Empowerer Jan 2016 #116

You went from zero to sixty right there. underthematrix Jan 2016 #132

So could Universal Health care when the majority of Americans wont be voting GOP... uponit7771 Jan 2016 #152

yes, you're making the same point Ta's was making in a round about way underthematrix Jan 2016 #328

LOL!! Love it! Liberal_Stalwart71 Jan 2016 #303

Who's side will you be fighting on? Honest question. Liberal_Stalwart71 Jan 2016 #354

I got it. retrowire Jan 2016 #26

German reparations to Jews post WW2 tishaLA Jan 2016 #28

I agree and thanks for the enlightenment. nt retrowire Jan 2016 #29

Yes but.. cannabis_flower Jan 2016 #342

Maybe I should add a link to his article "The Case for Reparations" because tishaLA Jan 2016 #351

And then there's this cannabis_flower Jan 2016 #352

That's fine tishaLA Jan 2016 #359

My father is still getting reparations from the German government stevenleser Jan 2016 #380

Yes they have, in the US with Japanese and in Germany with Jews uponit7771 Jan 2016 #46

the topic creator already informed me of this. good to know. nt retrowire Jan 2016 #112

There isn't the same level of support for reparations as democratic socialism Prism Jan 2016 #27

Among whom?!?! There's a large level of support for reporations from POC... there's even uponit7771 Jan 2016 #53

Among Americans generally Prism Jan 2016 #60

The same numbers were against gay marriage too... we didn't stop then why stop now? When the radical uponit7771 Jan 2016 #153

Bernie Sanders isn't a radical Prism Jan 2016 #172

That's great, neither is reparations... it's great economics, great politics and the right thing to uponit7771 Jan 2016 #178

Morally radical? No. Politically? Heaps. Prism Jan 2016 #184

There's no ground work for the 2.2% increase in payroll taxes for HCI payments but that hasn't kept uponit7771 Jan 2016 #188

Stating as clearly as I can Prism Jan 2016 #194

Let me say it clearly, 0% of Americans support a 8.4% increase in payroll taxes for single payer uponit7771 Jan 2016 #201

Depends how it's framed Prism Jan 2016 #216

Point being that trade has NOT been explained so far ... but that's part of the revolution Sanders.. uponit7771 Jan 2016 #224

You wrote: "I don't know why reparations would be the exception." Liberal_Stalwart71 Jan 2016 #305

Very good post, Prism nt tishaLA Jan 2016 #190

Thank you for sharing this. K&R nt NCTraveler Jan 2016 #30

Who's gonna get reparated? tularetom Jan 2016 #31

Mr Coates never said that his support for a candidate is based tishaLA Jan 2016 #32

But that implication is there in the quoted text elias49 Jan 2016 #34

Which implication? tishaLA Jan 2016 #35

To me, the implication is that Sanders is running elias49 Jan 2016 #36

Yeah, I never would have guessed that's what you thought he was implying tishaLA Jan 2016 #39

People who've been continually harmed by policies of the federal government based on race? tia uponit7771 Jan 2016 #47

... 99Forever Jan 2016 #33

Good googly... Number23 Jan 2016 #37

I think Coates ended Sanders run for prez with this article, somewhere a bunch of dynamite went boom uponit7771 Jan 2016 #49

Wow, that is some serious wishful thinking right there. Warren DeMontague Jan 2016 #52

No, Sanders "Try Anyway" mantra is dead if he screams congress as a roadblock because 99% of his uponit7771 Jan 2016 #54

Yeah, good luck. Warren DeMontague Jan 2016 #57

It's be easier to say Sanders is not a real "try anyway' candidate uponit7771 Jan 2016 #76

Okay, I'm going to "unpack" this nonsense, as they like to say on the tumblr. Warren DeMontague Jan 2016 #96

Nicely unpacked. Vattel Jan 2016 #137

Hillary Clinton has not said she doesn't support reparations--she has said we have to do a lot of MADem Jan 2016 #318

Reparations are not going to happen any more than Manhattan will be given back to Native Americans. Warren DeMontague Jan 2016 #349

I don't think that was his intent nor do I thik it will be the result tishaLA Jan 2016 #64

Unnnnnn, Sanders is the "try anyway" candidate... Why wouldn't he do at reputations?... Not trying o uponit7771 Jan 2016 #75

I don't disagree with that. But you said that Mr Coates tishaLA Jan 2016 #81

Hmmm.... Number23 Jan 2016 #84

positive was probably too strong tishaLA Jan 2016 #91

Absolutely. Number23 Jan 2016 #92

Yes, this is why I say figuratively he's ended Sanders campaign. On the other side if Sanders says.. uponit7771 Jan 2016 #128

I'm speaking figuratively not literally, Sanders technically has enough money to go beyond 2016 uponit7771 Jan 2016 #86

You're repeating yourself.. choie Jan 2016 #125

No to the same people and why not address the question? Radical left on everything except racial uponit7771 Jan 2016 #130

You wrote: "Coates is doing nothing but confirming what many, many black people have already said" Liberal_Stalwart71 Jan 2016 #315

You know it. Which is why this board is flooded with Sanders endorsements of every person Number23 Jan 2016 #320

I don't think Hillary supports reparations either cannabis_flower Jan 2016 #347

I love how you try to use Killer Mike to refute Ta-Nehisi Coates Number23 Jan 2016 #367

1) He isn't politically suicidal LittleBlue Jan 2016 #48

1. It's worked before in the US and Germany and 2. So does 99% of the rest of Sanders agenda... uponit7771 Jan 2016 #50

Disingenuous nonsense LittleBlue Jan 2016 #55

slavery plays only a minute role in Mr Coates' call for reparations tishaLA Jan 2016 #59

I'm not responsible for that LittleBlue Jan 2016 #62

He's actually addressing thins that continue even today tishaLA Jan 2016 #66

Then some other solution must be found to level the playing field LittleBlue Jan 2016 #68

Will care how it would be labeled just as long as it's specific towers the people who are harmed uponit7771 Jan 2016 #82

Luckily the Germans born since 1945 haven't stopped reparations to holocaust survivors stevenleser Jan 2016 #382

How many ex-slaves are alive today? How many Holocaust survivors? LittleBlue Jan 2016 #404

Well my father for one. And Coates reparation points arent regarding slavery. nt stevenleser Jan 2016 #405

Okay, then you understand the difference LittleBlue Jan 2016 #406

"Ta Nehisi Coates is a fraud." tishaLA Jan 2016 #56

I don't even agree with some of his other positions LittleBlue Jan 2016 #58

thank you for your resppnse tishaLA Jan 2016 #61

Sorry, I'm replying to multiple things at once LittleBlue Jan 2016 #65

Thanks, but I think I'd prefer not tishaLA Jan 2016 #67

Bernie is against reparations because it's stupid policy ram2008 Jan 2016 #70

Mr Coates has written extensively about this tishaLA Jan 2016 #72

Simply put: he's wrong ram2008 Jan 2016 #93

So you opposed, at least in theory, tishaLA Jan 2016 #99

If they tried to give out reparations >150 years later, yes ram2008 Jan 2016 #104

Yes - a racist society delays giving out reparations for 150 years and then claims it's "too late" Empowerer Jan 2016 #122

So we only venture to do that which is not "divisive" Empowerer Jan 2016 #120

I'll be sure to remember that the next time a Sanders supporter posts a "No we can't" response to Empowerer Jan 2016 #124

Sanders ideas are supported by many Americans ram2008 Jan 2016 #255

"Admitted the exact nature of our wrongs and became willing to make amends for them." wildeyed Jan 2016 #126

+1000 nt tishaLA Jan 2016 #179

So when exactly can we expect Secretary Clinton to come out in favor of reparations? Warren DeMontague Jan 2016 #236

Why doesn't Coates include Native Americans in his call for reparations? cherokeeprogressive Jan 2016 #292

Was it stupid for the German Jews or Japanese in America? uponit7771 Jan 2016 #77

Two completely different scenarios ram2008 Jan 2016 #97

This is false on its face, the incarceration rate for blacks now call for reparations... uponit7771 Jan 2016 #140

I would say refusing to even talk about reparations is what is keeping race relations back Recursion Jan 2016 #187

Read it and I will say this Truprogressive85 Jan 2016 #74

he never denies that, really tishaLA Jan 2016 #78

Again Truprogressive85 Jan 2016 #98

But Sanders is supposed to be be "try anyway" candidate... No matter how improbable the outcome try uponit7771 Jan 2016 #79

Regardless of what any candidate says, to not do reparations is an absolute disgrace randys1 Jan 2016 #80

And to argue the improbability of Congress on this point undercut his whole message of try anyway uponit7771 Jan 2016 #83

Many leftists are not supporting Sanders because azmom Jan 2016 #89

What is leftist about TNC? aikoaiko Jan 2016 #159

Coates is no more a leftist (anti-capitalist) than Sanders... AOR Jan 2016 #426

If he is not a leftist, then he is full azmom Jan 2016 #447

Let me take a swing at this Armstead Jan 2016 #103

thanks for a thoughtful reply tishaLA Jan 2016 #106

Reparations can take many forms, and most don't get that. kwassa Jan 2016 #117

Yeap,... the thought of just giving out tons of dough to people irks some uponit7771 Jan 2016 #136

Not only is he breaking it he's shattering it, he's unapologetically shattering the enveloe on so uponit7771 Jan 2016 #135

This straw man that Bernie should be for reparations because jfern Jan 2016 #161

No,... no it's not a strawman, it basically calls out Sanders "try anyway" stance no matter the uponit7771 Jan 2016 #211

I think you have to be clear exactly what you mean by reparations jfern Jan 2016 #230

Reparations could come in many forms ... not just handign out people tons of cash like America has.. uponit7771 Jan 2016 #259

I favor reparations HassleCat Jan 2016 #131

Posted to for later comment. eom. 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2016 #133

TNC is wrong. Universal health care is much more likely than reparations. aikoaiko Jan 2016 #150

You're making his point, Sanders isn't caring about the likely hood of anything he's going to try uponit7771 Jan 2016 #156

I disagree. Bernie think his platform is attainable aikoaiko Jan 2016 #158

Then why not reparations then? The economics of the issue alone makes since and its moral... uponit7771 Jan 2016 #163

If you think it is viable then have your candidate promise it. aikoaiko Jan 2016 #167

My candidate isn't the "try anyway" candidate, Sanders is... I'm not expecting that out of her... uponit7771 Jan 2016 #168

Bernie doesn't advocate for a lot of things people call leftist or radical. aikoaiko Jan 2016 #170

Reparations on attainable, good economics, good morals, good revolution. Universal Health care uponit7771 Jan 2016 #185

If you believe that than find a candidate who agrees with you. aikoaiko Jan 2016 #192

What group is singled out for reparations has nothing to do with whether it can be done... uponit7771 Jan 2016 #208

I know HRC supporters such as yourself love it when black activist beat up on Bernie for 'not being. aikoaiko Jan 2016 #219

I have no idea what you're talking about aikoaiko and stop generalizing people. Reparations ARE uponit7771 Jan 2016 #226

Coates is not a "black activist" - he's a renowned and highly respected scholar Empowerer Jan 2016 #243

This message was self-deleted by its author aikoaiko Jan 2016 #249

Okay then I want my family to get theirs too. Kalidurga Jan 2016 #181

That's not a problem with me, we can make one less carrier group per month and pay Mexicans uponit7771 Jan 2016 #191

No the question and you know it is not why isn't it part of Bernie's platform Kalidurga Jan 2016 #193

The DNC isn't calling itself revolutionary, it's not trying to pull asunder its own structure cause uponit7771 Jan 2016 #196

Thank you for making the case to not support the DNC. Kalidurga Jan 2016 #199

Got an answer to the rational question of why not reparations in Sanders platform? tia uponit7771 Jan 2016 #202

Sure as soon as the question is inclusive of all POC and rational. Kalidurga Jan 2016 #205

What does who is asking the question have to do with whether or not it should be answered? uponit7771 Jan 2016 #210

You don't get why I think all POC should be considered? Kalidurga Jan 2016 #213

We're talking about why reparations isn't in Sanders platform seeing all the other obstacles for uponit7771 Jan 2016 #221

There was a time when Bernie would never even call himself a Democrat. Liberal_Stalwart71 Jan 2016 #324

I will put you down for one who would root for Bernie to destroy the chances of a Democrat win. Kalidurga Jan 2016 #372

Do what you feel you must. Like you argue on behalf of Bernie, I'm a woman who stands Liberal_Stalwart71 Jan 2016 #378

Do you read what you post? Kalidurga Jan 2016 #384

I MEANT EVERY FUCKING WORD!! What's your problem? Liberal_Stalwart71 Jan 2016 #416

My problem is you meant every word, yet don't understand any of them. Kalidurga Jan 2016 #432

I should get land from the Ojibwa side AND the Mexican side artislife Jan 2016 #197

issues for PoC are not high on anyone's list Kalidurga Jan 2016 #200

I know that Indian school was terrible for my grandfather. artislife Jan 2016 #222

I might be in the same boat. Kalidurga Jan 2016 #228

I believe the Rare Earth Indian Reservation artislife Jan 2016 #271

I think we need to help ourselves and that's what I love about BLACKWEALTH underthematrix Jan 2016 #332

How many of you are watching PBS' Eye on the Prize? underthematrix Jan 2016 #334

We need to handle our business. Kalidurga Jan 2016 #370

Again, fine with me... build one less carrier group per month..even steven. Now why isn't uponit7771 Jan 2016 #203

I don't understand what you mean by build one less carrier group per month. TIA artislife Jan 2016 #215

Like tanks we have too many useless aircraft carrier groups that cost 100s of billions and is mostly uponit7771 Jan 2016 #217

Oh okay. I understand now artislife Jan 2016 #223

That COULD be part of reparations, I'm for that... I've said it in this thread if Sanders proffers . uponit7771 Jan 2016 #225

Until this thread, I hadn't seen a push for reparations artislife Jan 2016 #227

Sanders said no to them, to me that's counter revolutionary uponit7771 Jan 2016 #260

I can't wait to hear Hillary's plan for reparations. artislife Jan 2016 #270

You missed the point of Ta's article underthematrix Jan 2016 #339

Rabbit Proof Fence is a great film tishaLA Jan 2016 #206

You actually believe this? There are Sanders supporters IN THIS THREAD who acknowledge that MADem Jan 2016 #286

Yes, I think UHC is more likely than a certain type of reparation (large $$ payouts to individuals) aikoaiko Jan 2016 #290

This message was self-deleted by its author Joe the Revelator Jan 2016 #198

There are no moral arguments to why its silly and asking for a 8.4% increase in payroll taxes uponit7771 Jan 2016 #212

I guess it's officialy tazkcmo Jan 2016 #204

No, it's an article Mr Coates tweeted today tishaLA Jan 2016 #209

I'll apolgze to you. tazkcmo Jan 2016 #218

I agree 100% with everything you wrote tishaLA Jan 2016 #220

Or the right thing to talk about?! Cause this aint going away, TNC brings up a damn good point... uponit7771 Jan 2016 #214

Far more questions than answers Bernin4U Jan 2016 #231

No, reparations is not like the Bush v. Gore decision and payment for scalding coffee. SunSeeker Jan 2016 #234

The fact of the matter is, Bernie Sanders is far and away the most progressive, forward-thinking Warren DeMontague Jan 2016 #238

^This^ Zorra Jan 2016 #250

While I personally do support reparations, I have to ask... Ken Burch Jan 2016 #235

Long thread...anything about reparations to Native Americans? nt elias49 Jan 2016 #247

Yes, land lease and stop building 5 carrier groups per month uponit7771 Jan 2016 #265

Ok I'm for reparations steve2470 Jan 2016 #239

Those SAME NUMBERS hasn't stopped Sanders on UHC!! Why reparations!? tia uponit7771 Jan 2016 #264

Universal health care is a much easier sell, there's minimal or no racist argument against it steve2470 Jan 2016 #355

The stupid arguments are against it, they don't have to be racist stupid ...just stupid stupid.. uponit7771 Jan 2016 #436

The arguments against reparations by non-DU'ers are RACIST stupid... steve2470 Jan 2016 #452

Ok, outside of the progressive fold who cares... inside the progressive fold he would not uponit7771 Jan 2016 #453

Mr Coates supports the status quo because ... GeorgeGist Jan 2016 #241

Proffering what is right is now "radical"!? This point is that no matter how radical Sanders uponit7771 Jan 2016 #263

Not except for reparations. How about open borders? azmom Jan 2016 #280

No one who supports HRC takes the winger like villainizing seriously, it comes across as noise... uponit7771 Jan 2016 #438

I'll echo this bigtree Jan 2016 #248

It was very interesting to read. Made me stop and think and question my own views KittyWampus Jan 2016 #252

It is divisive because the major opposition are racists Agnosticsherbet Jan 2016 #254

Yeap, ... but what people have been saying in this thread is that a good portion of the dem... uponit7771 Jan 2016 #262

If Dems are agaisnt Tax increases, then Sanders agenda is dead in the water... Agnosticsherbet Jan 2016 #377

+1, and reparations doesn't mean paying trillions to the oppressed either... college programs, home uponit7771 Jan 2016 #435

As a Hillary supporter, I give Bernie credit for opposing the stupid idea of reparations. Nye Bevan Jan 2016 #268

Yup kenfrequed Jan 2016 #346

But the point is Bernie is not against it because he disagrees, he's against it for pragmatisms stevenleser Jan 2016 #387

This is one of the more interesting aspects of this thread Chitown Kev Jan 2016 #465

Yawn. closeupready Jan 2016 #274

ah, the new anti-Bernie meme of the day. This thread is going in the trash. liberal_at_heart Jan 2016 #276

What is infuriating to me is how Bernie seems to understand the "impossibility" of getting Liberal_Stalwart71 Jan 2016 #278

Sigh... welcome to the club, L_S Number23 Jan 2016 #306

I was always anti-Hillary and only lukewarm on Bernie. I thought a few PoC's liked Liberal_Stalwart71 Jan 2016 #330

I'm a Bernie supporter and I hold Mr Coates in high esteem. myrna minx Jan 2016 #335

I appreciate your words. That idea that making things right for those who have been negatively Liberal_Stalwart71 Jan 2016 #337

The fact that Mr Coates has introduced this idea to mainstream presidential politics is very encouraging myrna minx Jan 2016 #357

Yes, thank you. Much appreciated. I explain my stance in Post #350. I think there's learning Liberal_Stalwart71 Jan 2016 #360

Thank you for being patient with folks like me who have a learning curve. myrna minx Jan 2016 #373

i love your posts in this thread tishaLA Jan 2016 #379

When we, as a nation, are witnessing the purposeful, slow poisoning of the children of Flint Michigan, myrna minx Jan 2016 #390

What a thoughtful and obviously heartfelt analysis Empowerer Jan 2016 #417

You deserve a hundred standing ovations for this post Number23 Jan 2016 #366

Thank you. I have much to learn, but I'm trying. myrna minx Jan 2016 #375

Wonderful article gwheezie Jan 2016 #281

I've learned just a bit about different models of reparations recentlyand some are definitely doable aikoaiko Jan 2016 #283

There's a lot to read, but it seems to be a reasonable argument Bradical79 Jan 2016 #301

I'm not paying one red cent for what other people did a hundred odd years ago. Kurska Jan 2016 #304

In his (very long) essay, The Case for Reparations, Mr Coates tishaLA Jan 2016 #312

So when I am going to get reparations for not being able to marry for most of my life Kurska Jan 2016 #313

I would encourage you to pursue whatever remedies possible nt tishaLA Jan 2016 #316

Discrimination is best dealt with on a case by case basis of harm Kurska Jan 2016 #317

So you don't oppose reparations per se, then, but you think we need individual plaintiffs? tishaLA Jan 2016 #319

Isn't that literally what a discrimination lawsuit is for? Kurska Jan 2016 #325

My ancestors were enslaved by the Holy Roman Empire. Nye Bevan Jan 2016 #356

Because reparations aren't radical... MellowDem Jan 2016 #309

please see my post immediately above yours tishaLA Jan 2016 #314

It's even worse... MellowDem Jan 2016 #322

Coates doesn't say they "feed structural racial inequality" tishaLA Jan 2016 #326

The courts aren't perfect... MellowDem Jan 2016 #329

folks smarter than I have proposed a number of ways to implement reparations tishaLA Jan 2016 #333

Yes. it is a good essay kenfrequed Jan 2016 #338

Good point Stimoyo Jan 2016 #363

What puke Depaysement Jan 2016 #381

You should probably familiarize yourself with Mr Coates' writings on reparations tishaLA Jan 2016 #383

I am well aware of what happened in the antebellum south and afterwards Depaysement Jan 2016 #395

Benjamin Dixon: Why isn't this being asked about Hillary or O'Malley? cui bono Jan 2016 #385

I'm guessing you missed Mr Coates on Chris Hayes tishaLA Jan 2016 #388

Sorry, but that doesn't make any sense. cui bono Jan 2016 #394

You construe it as an attack; I don't tishaLA Jan 2016 #396

But it wasn't just any white liberal. TM99 Jan 2016 #407

Yes, I do. Had he directed the same question to all candidates I would not. cui bono Jan 2016 #424

but, CB, he didnt direct the question tishaLA Jan 2016 #429

Thanks for the info. I will watch the video. n/t cui bono Jan 2016 #439

make this an OP please? eom Arazi Jan 2016 #389

I linked to the OP about this. n/t cui bono Jan 2016 #392

It really outlines the dishonesty of TNC on this. Instructive eom Arazi Jan 2016 #393

because Obviously, Hillary cannot run on the issues. Warren DeMontague Jan 2016 #398

Because its the hypocrisy, not the particular stance on the issue. Not sure why this is so hard. stevenleser Jan 2016 #466

Long thread with a lot of interesting replies.... AOR Jan 2016 #399

I kept waiting for you to address Coates points and stop with the ad-hominem against him but that stevenleser Jan 2016 #400

First post in close to a month Steven... AOR Jan 2016 #408

Nope. I was waiting as I was reading your post. Would you address any of the points Coates actually stevenleser Jan 2016 #449

As far as leftist political analysis is concerned... AOR Jan 2016 #462

There is no hypocrisy in leftism? Hmmm. I don't think that's right. nt stevenleser Jan 2016 #467

In fact, he argues precisely that reparations are THE tool because tishaLA Jan 2016 #401

Lip-service is not understanding... AOR Jan 2016 #411

the internet's great because you can find people who assert almost anything tishaLA Jan 2016 #414

The question remains... AOR Jan 2016 #433

This message was self-deleted by its author YoungDemCA Jan 2016 #450

Someone hijack your account over the years ? AOR Jan 2016 #459

Wow. That left a mark: "There are no outs here for you and Starry." Romulox Jan 2016 #460

This message was self-deleted by its author YoungDemCA Jan 2016 #461

This message was self-deleted by its author snot Jan 2016 #412

I'm voting for Bernie olddots Jan 2016 #441

Why? Because he doesn't want to alienate middle class white voters YoungDemCA Jan 2016 #451

The thing that bothered me about this discussion Blue_In_AK Jan 2016 #463

k & r lovemydog Jan 2016 #464