2016 Postmortem

DanTex

(20,709 posts)

113. The whole thing?

Tue Jan 26, 2016, 09:44 AM

Jan 2016

So far, the only excuse I've seen for Bernie's dismissal of reparations is "Hillary doesn't want them either." Which, first of all, it's pretty odd for Bernie fans who dislike most everything about Hillary to be using Hillary of all people to justify Bernie's stance. But it also totally misses the point. Hillary isn't running on the assumption that she will have universal fiat. She is running a pragmatic platform. I happen to agree with her on this -- ignoring political reality, pretending there is no house, senate or supreme court, is not a wise thing to do.

But I get that people might disagree, call me cynical, etc. What I don't get is why people who insist that a candidate's proposals should reflect ideals as opposed to realism, are opposed to including reparations under those ideals. What's different between reparations and single payer?

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The reason Bernie's dismissal of reparations matters. [View all] DanTex Jan 2016 OP

total bullshit, dan restorefreedom Jan 2016 #1

This is the level of response I expected. I wonder if anyone can come up with something rational? DanTex Jan 2016 #3

what response is that? restorefreedom Jan 2016 #9

Ad hominem, ignoring the question. DanTex Jan 2016 #11

so which issue would you like to discuss? restorefreedom Jan 2016 #21

Well, you can start by reading the OP. DanTex Jan 2016 #24

This! pandr32 Jan 2016 #30

i did read the op and your basic premise is incorrcect restorefreedom Jan 2016 #33

You seriously think that single payer doesn't have "many logistical difficulties"? DanTex Jan 2016 #41

krugman has sold his soul to the devil of greed and capitalism. restorefreedom Jan 2016 #58

Obviously, under the bus goes Krugman. DanTex Jan 2016 #64

hillary has a much bigger staff restorefreedom Jan 2016 #68

Exactly! Empowerer Jan 2016 #89

Good point. riversedge Jan 2016 #53

Funny angrychair Jan 2016 #83

Well that was fun. Rewriting the OP, because as written it was too difficult to respond to. DanTex Jan 2016 #84

Not really angrychair Jan 2016 #87

no one running supports reparations so until EVERYONE gets the same slams and roguevalley Jan 2016 #88

Your desperation is palpable. Motown_Johnny Jan 2016 #2

Meh, ad hominem. How about a coherent response to the question I raised? DanTex Jan 2016 #4

Your question is stupid. Motown_Johnny Jan 2016 #6

OK, so you are opposed to reparations in principle, not for political reasons. DanTex Jan 2016 #13

No, because it is a logistical impossibility. Motown_Johnny Jan 2016 #15

Well, many, many people disagree with you about that. But fair enough. DanTex Jan 2016 #17

You claim it is about priorities. Hillary's priorities are relevant, Motown_Johnny Jan 2016 #26

Hillary's priorities are getting things accomplished. DanTex Jan 2016 #27

You are backward. Motown_Johnny Jan 2016 #51

So Bernie's been against reparations for 40 years? I didn't know that. DanTex Jan 2016 #57

I am not aware of him ever being asked that question before. Motown_Johnny Jan 2016 #75

That in itself is interesting: he's never even thought about it before. DanTex Jan 2016 #76

Will you please answer my question? I answered yours. Motown_Johnny Jan 2016 #78

I already did. Clinton is not in favor of reparations, consistent with her overall pragmatism. DanTex Jan 2016 #80

That was not my question. Motown_Johnny Jan 2016 #82

You complain that Hillary says single payer Can't get done-and Here YOU are saying the Same. riversedge Jan 2016 #61

No I am not. Single payer CAN be done. Motown_Johnny Jan 2016 #77

It's not a logistical impossibility but it is difficult and complicated Empowerer Jan 2016 #90

Logistics is different than logical Motown_Johnny Jan 2016 #93

It was a typo - I'll correct it. Empowerer Jan 2016 #98

Did you read my post beyond the heading? Empowerer Jan 2016 #99

"opposed to reparations in principle"? thomservo Jan 2016 #18

You don't know any of that. joshcryer Jan 2016 #16

How would you determine who is deserving of reparations? Motown_Johnny Jan 2016 #43

You study it? joshcryer Jan 2016 #54

DNA can't tell you when your ancestor came to America. Motown_Johnny Jan 2016 #81

Still hypocrisy unless you can explain a pragmatic candidate's mmonk Jan 2016 #5

Dan could give a fuck about reparations or black people he's using reparations as bludgeoning JRLeft Jan 2016 #7

Another ad-hominem. I'm starting to think nobody has a cogent answer. DanTex Jan 2016 #10

I'm black and I can tell when someone is using my people. JRLeft Jan 2016 #12

game, set, match. nt restorefreedom Jan 2016 #23

If he cared about reparations he would have explained why it's the moral thing to do JRLeft Jan 2016 #28

interesting, isn't it? nt restorefreedom Jan 2016 #36

Post removed Post removed Jan 2016 #38

but if we call bs, its ad hominem. alrighty. nt restorefreedom Jan 2016 #47

Of course it is. JRLeft Jan 2016 #72

That's quite an accusation. How about keeping the ad hominem out of this? DanTex Jan 2016 #29

It's not ad hominem when it's true. JRLeft Jan 2016 #31

Well, it's not true. But even if it were, it would still be ad hominem -- attacking me and not DanTex Jan 2016 #32

Do you support reparations? JRLeft Jan 2016 #34

Yes. Of course, they'd be difficult in practice, but morally I don't see the argument against them. DanTex Jan 2016 #50

Why? JRLeft Jan 2016 #62

Oh I do, I also realize the only people who will help black people JRLeft Jan 2016 #63

I believe it is morally required to compensate victims of slavery and their descendants. DanTex Jan 2016 #65

Read the post above. JRLeft Jan 2016 #67

OK. Fair enough. DanTex Jan 2016 #71

+1, next they'll call you poopy head and that's when you know the meltdown is comin uponit7771 Jan 2016 #94

The dangerous one, scary man! appalachiablue Jan 2016 #39

Aren't you just repeating what Coates said, basically? Kentonio Jan 2016 #8

What you don't get is that Bernie IS pragmatic and never claimed to be otherwise virtualobserver Jan 2016 #14

Thank you. A plausible response. DanTex Jan 2016 #20

the only cynical element at work is Team Hillary with this kind of attack virtualobserver Jan 2016 #49

and that's ok given our situation in congress.. Sanders popularity is built off of these unicorns uponit7771 Jan 2016 #96

One day Bernie is a right-winger [see guns] the next he's radical leftist ram2008 Jan 2016 #19

I totally support reparations in principle. Bonobo Jan 2016 #22

The reason his stance on reparations matters is... HerbChestnut Jan 2016 #25

"When it comes to reparations, it's difficult to make a moral argument Jarqui Jan 2016 #35

Conflating reparations with single payer is disingenuous to start. OP fails. elias49 Jan 2016 #37

Used reparations as a cover to go after Bernie. JRLeft Jan 2016 #42

It's not conflation, it's drawing a contrast and point out a severe double standard. DanTex Jan 2016 #46

Who's using a double-standard? elias49 Jan 2016 #52

Read the OP again. It's not about Clinton. Why is this so confusing? DanTex Jan 2016 #73

IRONY AWARD! Bonobo Jan 2016 #69

All caps and substance free. The standard Bernie fan response. DanTex Jan 2016 #74

Perhaps this helps fredamae Jan 2016 #40

Since when do Bernie fans restrict them to policies that Obama wants? Is Bernie pro-TPP now? DanTex Jan 2016 #44

Huh? n/t fredamae Jan 2016 #45

Yes, that was my response. Maybe you replied to the wrong OP. DanTex Jan 2016 #48

lol, well..no fredamae Jan 2016 #59

K&R. nt ecstatic Jan 2016 #55

REC. Sanders dodged the question yesterday. Even silly Chuck Todd noted the dodge and asked riversedge Jan 2016 #56

So, Clinton is ready to grant reparations then? I didn't know that. berni_mccoy Jan 2016 #60

Sanders was the best senator in my opinion Thenewire Jan 2016 #66

rather then speaking about money payments, I wish he would mention actual land and homes 'stolen' Sunlei Jan 2016 #70

OP is bullshit. Shameful even. Bread and Circus Jan 2016 #79

Because I can use it to try and discredit him.. Fumesucker Jan 2016 #85

Because single payer is for everyone and is uniting and reparations aren't and are divisive. highprincipleswork Jan 2016 #86

So, unless EVERYONE benefits from it, is divisive? Empowerer Jan 2016 #91

I confess that I don't understand. Free college at certain colleges and $15./hr minimum wage... highprincipleswork Jan 2016 #105

Lots of people can't get into college for various reasons, including structural discrimination Empowerer Jan 2016 #108

Thank you so much for this. Wonderful answer. highprincipleswork Jan 2016 #121

Thank you for asking thoughtful questions Empowerer Jan 2016 #122

Be honest, it only matters because it gives you something to latch onto Matariki Jan 2016 #92

A nerve has been hit, notice the amount of adhoms, red herrings and strawmen in response uponit7771 Jan 2016 #95

Please define reparations. Please give the criteria for reparations. Please give the libdem4life Jan 2016 #97

Those are all issues to be studied and discussed Empowerer Jan 2016 #100

Then I guess I'd ask the same question...especially PBO but HRC as well...why should libdem4life Jan 2016 #102

Which says something about our corrupt political system. Tierra_y_Libertad Jan 2016 #101

1. Because Clinton supporters are desperate. mhatrw Jan 2016 #103

Equity and fairness are important values, except to Clinton surrogates who mhatrw Jan 2016 #104

Please tell me a Hillary supporter isn't race baiting. Fearless Jan 2016 #106

Such a desperate attack from a failing campaign jfern Jan 2016 #107

This is divisive identity politics BS. Odin2005 Jan 2016 #109

Why does your argument only apply to Bernie? Vinca Jan 2016 #110

Did you read the OP? DanTex Jan 2016 #111

Yes. Vinca Jan 2016 #112

The whole thing? DanTex Jan 2016 #113

My point is that the manufactured brouhaha over Bernie and reparations is, rather obviously, Vinca Jan 2016 #116

Wow, so now Ta-Nehisi Coates is a Hillary apparatchik also. I wonder who gets smeared next? DanTex Jan 2016 #117

I believe he did acknowledge he was a Hillary supporter . . . so why wasn't she included? Vinca Jan 2016 #118

Smear away. I explained the difference between Hillary and Bernie. Most people outside the DanTex Jan 2016 #119

The problem with the piece is that if, during an election season, you are going to address Vinca Jan 2016 #120

Bernie never promised to right all the wrongs of the past. Live and Learn Jan 2016 #114

Your basic premise is -- as usual -- wrong Armstead Jan 2016 #115