2016 Postmortem

oberliner

(58,724 posts)

82. Are you a fan of Noam Chomsky?

Reply to Art_from_Ark (Reply #79)

Fri Feb 12, 2016, 01:43 AM

Feb 2016

If so, I would encourage you to check out what he has written about Churchill.

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Sanders names Winston Churchill as someone he admires? [View all] oberliner Feb 2016 OP

at least Churchill isn't around still to "advise" him, unlike Kissinger/Hillary. nt m-lekktor Feb 2016 #1

True - but it seemed like an odd choice oberliner Feb 2016 #5

Churchill gave comfort and encouragement to his fellow Brits Art_from_Ark Feb 2016 #38

Kissinger won the Nobel Peace Prize for negotiating the end of the Vietnam War oberliner Feb 2016 #45

And just a few months after Kissinger won the Nobel Peace Prize, Art_from_Ark Feb 2016 #49

And right after WWII, Churchill started culling the population of India oberliner Feb 2016 #50

Right after WW2, Churchill was voted out muriel_volestrangler Feb 2016 #212

In 1943, some 3 million brown-skinned subjects of the Raj died in the Bengal famine oberliner Feb 2016 #213

"Some negatives" AgingAmerican Feb 2016 #95

Both in equal measure oberliner Feb 2016 #97

List the war crimes Churchill is accused of AgingAmerican Feb 2016 #99

Maybe start with Dresden? oberliner Feb 2016 #105

Dresden was a joint USA/UK military action AgingAmerican Feb 2016 #111

Yes, indeed it was oberliner Feb 2016 #117

Where there's smoke AgingAmerican Feb 2016 #119

I always heard the Queen Elizabeth and her mother gave the Brits hella comfort. bettyellen Feb 2016 #51

Not so much? Art_from_Ark Feb 2016 #55

Are you aware of the source you are using? oberliner Feb 2016 #69

Well, I had wanted to refer to the August 1965 National Geographic article Art_from_Ark Feb 2016 #79

Are you a fan of Noam Chomsky? oberliner Feb 2016 #82

OK, I'll check it out when I have some time. Art_from_Ark Feb 2016 #85

OK oberliner Feb 2016 #88

Somehow the taint of colonialism stuck to him for many, and it was the first thing I thought of... bettyellen Feb 2016 #75

Indeed. Aerows Feb 2016 #63

What about Churchill's exploits in India and Kenya? oberliner Feb 2016 #84

Churchill was only involved in ww2? gwheezie Feb 2016 #114

Well, that's a stretch. TDale313 Feb 2016 #2

Except Churchill was the first to propose their NHS universal health care ErikJ Feb 2016 #101

The op's attack, I meant. TDale313 Feb 2016 #106

There is no attack oberliner Feb 2016 #109

!I know! Contrast that with Hillary admiring Nelson Mandela n/t lunamagica Feb 2016 #3

Mandela seemed like the obvious answer oberliner Feb 2016 #8

agree, I understood the question to mean who unapatriciated Feb 2016 #28

Exactly oberliner Feb 2016 #32

Yes I think they both misunderstood the question. unapatriciated Feb 2016 #41

Nice to see Hillary UglyGreed Feb 2016 #66

Bernie names the leader of the UK Conservative Party and Hillary names a Socialist oberliner Feb 2016 #72

Well maybe he stole UglyGreed Feb 2016 #78

Yeah that was a cheap move on her part oberliner Feb 2016 #81

IMO it was planned UglyGreed Feb 2016 #83

Probably oberliner Feb 2016 #87

For cripes sake, she was running against him when he was a wet behind the ears senator. Not Fla Dem Feb 2016 #153

True - but it did get pretty nasty oberliner Feb 2016 #170

She worked closely with him for 4 years as SoS. She barely knew him in 2007 when she Fla Dem Feb 2016 #192

Those comments are not actually all that glowing oberliner Feb 2016 #194

As I said people evolve, so yes there is definitely a difference from when she was Fla Dem Feb 2016 #197

You noticed she dropped his name and didn't go into why? Does she really know, a pander to AA, both? TheBlackAdder Feb 2016 #131

Mandela seems like the most obvious answer to the question oberliner Feb 2016 #151

Domestic, my favorite politician: Shirley Chisholm; Foreign a toss up between Mandela and Churchill. TheBlackAdder Feb 2016 #159

Churchill was a racist, imperialist who led the overthrow of the leader of Iran oberliner Feb 2016 #162

I believe SBS quantified it to his rallying of countrymen to adversity. nt TheBlackAdder Feb 2016 #203

Yep. DURHAM D Feb 2016 #4

What would've been the response if Hillary had named Churchill? oberliner Feb 2016 #24

I admit. I would have jumped on her for that. Ed Suspicious Feb 2016 #56

Thank you for your honesty oberliner Feb 2016 #59

It was not the best moment of the debate for him, IMO. femmedem Feb 2016 #185

He held Britain together Bjornsdotter Feb 2016 #6

Kissinger won the Nobel Peace Prize oberliner Feb 2016 #89

Good luck with that. Fearless Feb 2016 #7

Not a huge deal - just an observation oberliner Feb 2016 #11

Good luck with this strategy. Fearless Feb 2016 #13

Sowing seeds. nt Snotcicles Feb 2016 #22

There is no strategy oberliner Feb 2016 #25

Churchill didnt take any shit from Hitler. Warren DeMontague Feb 2016 #9

He deliberately targeted German civilians in bombing campaigns oberliner Feb 2016 #19

Of course the Germans were so kind. 840high Feb 2016 #23

Deliberately killing civilians is wrong oberliner Feb 2016 #30

I find many things in US foreign policy worthy of second guessing in the past 100 years Warren DeMontague Feb 2016 #33

Yes, they are all culpable for deliberately killing innocent civilians oberliner Feb 2016 #39

Given the magnitude of the threat posed by Fascism in WWII, I don't find it surprising at all. Warren DeMontague Feb 2016 #42

So Germans didn't kill civilians? 840high Feb 2016 #96

Of course they did oberliner Feb 2016 #108

If you want to try and compare Kissinger to Churchill, go ahead and run with that. Warren DeMontague Feb 2016 #31

I just thought it was an odd choice oberliner Feb 2016 #34

No, becuase Sanders has close relatives who were victims of the Holocaust. Warren DeMontague Feb 2016 #40

Stalin would be at the top of the list oberliner Feb 2016 #90

you should have this conversation with Senator Sanders, then. Warren DeMontague Feb 2016 #204

This is a discussion forum where people talk about what the candidates say and do oberliner Feb 2016 #207

^This^ Zorra Feb 2016 #199

Stalin had a much stronger stance against the Nazis than Churchill did oberliner Feb 2016 #211

Exactly TubbersUK Feb 2016 #139

No world leader did more to fight the Nazis than Stalin oberliner Feb 2016 #143

Yes, I'm aware of all of that - and probably more TubbersUK Feb 2016 #155

It's definitely not meant to be a "talking point for Hillary's campaign" oberliner Feb 2016 #164

So did FDR, Hitler, Stalin, Mussolini, and Hirohito. jeff47 Feb 2016 #43

Understood oberliner Feb 2016 #74

Re: Odd Choice Donkees Feb 2016 #160

But the question was specifically about foreign policy advice oberliner Feb 2016 #161

'He took the English language and sent it into battle.' Donkees Feb 2016 #178

Are you aware of the source you are using? oberliner Feb 2016 #181

There are plenty of things to hold Churchill accountable for Kentonio Feb 2016 #156

Fair enough oberliner Feb 2016 #179

Who in the hell dropped the atom bomb? B Calm Feb 2016 #167

Sanders didn't cite Truman as a role model for his foreign policy oberliner Feb 2016 #169

I disagree that it's a moot point. B Calm Feb 2016 #210

OK - not entirely moot oberliner Feb 2016 #218

He stated he didn't support his politics, just how he was able to rally people against Hitler. n/t Skwmom Feb 2016 #10

Do you remember what the question was? oberliner Feb 2016 #14

What leaders, one Foreign and one domestic, do you draw inspiration from. Warren DeMontague Feb 2016 #36

Only in terms of his wartime effort to unite nations for a purpose. Gregorian Feb 2016 #12

He said he disagreed with Winston Churchill, but admired him for bringing the people of England Snotcicles Feb 2016 #15

NO NO NO - HE said - very different from Sanders SoLeftIAmRight Feb 2016 #16

The question was to name a foreign leader who would influence policy decisions oberliner Feb 2016 #134

Churchill was an effective and inspiring leader during WWII, The Velveteen Ocelot Feb 2016 #17

He was? oberliner Feb 2016 #26

Bernie said he disagreed with the man politically Glamrock Feb 2016 #53

Hilary tried to make a similar distinction about Kissinger oberliner Feb 2016 #58

I'll concede Glamrock Feb 2016 #68

Fair enough oberliner Feb 2016 #71

USA = Dresden, Tokyo, Hiroshima, Nagasaki. n/t Admiral Loinpresser Feb 2016 #102

Churchill also helped usher in Nationalized Health Care... AzDar Feb 2016 #18

Thought that was Attlee Wig Master Feb 2016 #27

Um, sort of... JackRiddler Feb 2016 #48

Churchill abandoned socialism by the age of 30 DesertRat Feb 2016 #20

To be fair... Krytan11c Feb 2016 #76

It's understandable noretreatnosurrender Feb 2016 #21

Churchill was a bastard fighting for the right cause. joshcryer Feb 2016 #29

Not in India and Kenya oberliner Feb 2016 #92

True point, but did Kissinger ever fight on the right side? joshcryer Feb 2016 #120

Paris Peace Accords? oberliner Feb 2016 #123

You can thank the American people, and Eugene McCarthy, for that. joshcryer Feb 2016 #126

No argument here oberliner Feb 2016 #127

Fair enough. joshcryer Feb 2016 #128

My only point is that Churchill was a strange choice oberliner Feb 2016 #130

Yes, I don't agree with the choice. joshcryer Feb 2016 #133

Kissinger was no Churchill! longship Feb 2016 #35

Kissinger won the Nobel Peace Prize oberliner Feb 2016 #47

What are Dr. Strangelove's redeeming qualities? n/t Admiral Loinpresser Feb 2016 #107

Kissinger and Churchill are/were similar in their support for imperialism oberliner Feb 2016 #129

I never heard of anything good Kissinger did. Admiral Loinpresser Feb 2016 #216

Negotiating the SALT treaty with the USSR? oberliner Feb 2016 #217

I spoke out of hatred for Kissinger. Admiral Loinpresser Feb 2016 #220

I once told some youngsters in Dublin 5 years ago.. Bohemianwriter Feb 2016 #37

ofy he did. & Hillary didn't even answer the question, she just went negative uhnope Feb 2016 #44

She mentioned Mandela oberliner Feb 2016 #46

Churchill was probably the only foreign leader he could think of pandr32 Feb 2016 #52

They were both men of their time. Today Churchill would applegrove Feb 2016 #54

Today Churchill would not be imperialist? oberliner Feb 2016 #196

Nobody in Britain today is an imperialist. If Churchill were a politician today he would not be an applegrove Feb 2016 #200

Are you serious? Tony Blair and George W Bush aren't imperiliast? oberliner Feb 2016 #205

They thought they were going to be nation building, they were not planning applegrove Feb 2016 #208

OK oberliner Feb 2016 #214

On foreign policy jfern Feb 2016 #57

Are you aware of his foreign policy with respect to India and Kenya? oberliner Feb 2016 #61

I think you'll find very few people in this country from the Greatest Generation who disliked Ed Suspicious Feb 2016 #62

Because they didn't really ever learn much about the dark side of the British empire oberliner Feb 2016 #112

Are we really at the point where admiring Churchill is supposed to be controversial? melman Feb 2016 #60

Pretty sure no one in India or Africa admires him oberliner Feb 2016 #64

I was thinking the same thing. He was like a rock it seemed in a time of war. madfloridian Feb 2016 #86

Did you watch the debate? oberliner Feb 2016 #116

And Churchill now equals Kissinger. Le Taz Hot Feb 2016 #184

What is your opinion about the coup that overthrew Mossadegh? oberliner Feb 2016 #198

Because of Nazis silenttigersong Feb 2016 #65

The Soviet Union did the most to defeat the Nazis oberliner Feb 2016 #67

Well, lets compare... mikehiggins Feb 2016 #70

Are you serious? oberliner Feb 2016 #80

Kick! nt Bonobo Feb 2016 #73

Yea, what a shame, navigating defeat of hitler such an imperialist. elleng Feb 2016 #77

Stalin did the most to defeat Hitler oberliner Feb 2016 #93

Kissinger is a war criminal AgingAmerican Feb 2016 #91

Churchill unquestionably was a war criminal as well oberliner Feb 2016 #94

For what crimes against humanity? AgingAmerican Feb 2016 #98

British bombing raids killed a thousand German civilians a day oberliner Feb 2016 #100

Which country is leveling charges? AgingAmerican Feb 2016 #110

His war crimes predate the existence of the ICC oberliner Feb 2016 #115

If Churchill hadn't been Prime Minister in 1940... Spider Jerusalem Feb 2016 #103

Don't forget King Abdullah of Jordan BainsBane Feb 2016 #104

Hilary would have gotten a lot of crap for choosing Churchill: a right-wing, imperialist, racist oberliner Feb 2016 #113

Churchill was a white supremacist racist imperialist oligarch pompous asshole. nt Zorra Feb 2016 #118

Well, to lots of people who came to this country from Ireland, all Brits are. nt mikehiggins Feb 2016 #122

There were, and are, many lovely English folks who are horrified at what the Zorra Feb 2016 #152

I wonder if Sanders ever read this Churchill quote. Beacool Feb 2016 #121

Sanders isn't a Socialist AgingAmerican Feb 2016 #132

Sanders: "I am a socialist and everyone knows that" oberliner Feb 2016 #145

We're gonna need a new word for this Waiting For Everyman Feb 2016 #124

What do you mean? oberliner Feb 2016 #125

he said he didn't agree with everything Churchill retrowire Feb 2016 #135

He called him "a leader that I admire very much" oberliner Feb 2016 #137

Bernie said he didn't agree with everything. retrowire Feb 2016 #138

Here's what he said exactly oberliner Feb 2016 #140

keep ignoring this part retrowire Feb 2016 #144

I posted that line along with the entire quote oberliner Feb 2016 #147

of course there are other world leaders. nt retrowire Feb 2016 #149

That was a weird choice...maybe Bernie doesn't have a good grasp of that history Sancho Feb 2016 #136

Some background on Churchill, for those who grew up on media whitewash: Tanuki Feb 2016 #141

Apparently, Bernie Sanders is in some pretty good company in his admiration of Winston Churchill. cherokeeprogressive Feb 2016 #142

JFK names Harvard Professor Henry Kissinger special advisor oberliner Feb 2016 #150

They put him on the spot by giving him that question first speaktruthtopower Feb 2016 #146

He's never thought about it before? oberliner Feb 2016 #148

It is only recently that the truth about Churchill has become Zorra Feb 2016 #158

That is definitely not true oberliner Feb 2016 #163

Lame. That question gets asked often of political candidates. riversedge Feb 2016 #154

Churchill was an extremely complex person -- Kissinger is a straight-forward war criminal nichomachus Feb 2016 #157

Kissinger was complex too. You don't need to cartoonify someone just cause you disapprove of them Bucky Feb 2016 #171

Ridiculous comment oberliner Feb 2016 #176

Churchill beat fascists. If Trump gets nominated, Winston will be a useful role model Bucky Feb 2016 #165

So did Stalin oberliner Feb 2016 #174

Bernie said it, not me. I assume he meant it. Bucky Feb 2016 #180

I think upon reflection he would change his answer oberliner Feb 2016 #189

Earlier this morning, I'd thought I'd found a post illustrative of the lowest common denominator... LanternWaste Feb 2016 #166

What do you mean? oberliner Feb 2016 #173

He was pointing out the destabilization of Cambodia and the rise of Pol Pot because Motown_Johnny Feb 2016 #168

The overthrow of Mossadegh was led by Churchill oberliner Feb 2016 #172

It didn't leave the power vacuum that occurred due to the Iraq war Motown_Johnny Feb 2016 #175

I don't understand what your point is oberliner Feb 2016 #177

Bernie is not an ideologue on foreign policy. Motown_Johnny Feb 2016 #182

So you think Churchill was a good answer to that question? oberliner Feb 2016 #187

I understand why he went with Churchill and no, I would not blame Hillary Motown_Johnny Feb 2016 #190

OK oberliner Feb 2016 #193

You make a reasonable point. Motown_Johnny Feb 2016 #195

And Jefferson was a slave holder Le Taz Hot Feb 2016 #183

Do you think Churchill was a good answer to that question? oberliner Feb 2016 #186

Seriously, you're wasting everyone's time with this Le Taz Hot Feb 2016 #188

I've found it to be a really interesting discussion oberliner Feb 2016 #191

Better than Kissinger. alarimer Feb 2016 #201

Churchill: I am strongly in favour of using poisoned gas against uncivilised tribes. oberliner Feb 2016 #206

I know - I picked up on that too. LisaM Feb 2016 #202

How about Mary Robinson? oberliner Feb 2016 #209

Which puts him in company of diverse people of the left such as George Galloway and Mo Mowlam muriel_volestrangler Feb 2016 #215

George Galloway? oberliner Feb 2016 #219