2016 Postmortem

Bohemianwriter

(978 posts)

18. Still a better choice...

Sun Feb 14, 2016, 10:18 AM

Feb 2016

than "we came, we bombed, they drowned" Hillary who still have not made any wise decisions on foreign policy. Especially regarding wars..

What you don't seem to realize is that when you focus on Hillary's ego as something to be admired, Bernie relies on the people.

Your whole narrative and reasons for not supporting the liberal Jew is based on false premisses, where you fail to put all your premises up against Hillary's track record....

I don't see any good reason why Hillary should be endorsed except for the notion from the other side is that she is somehow entitled to the post.

You don't solve a problem by using the same methods that has never worked before.

Hillary is a part of the problem. Not the solution to it, and she is not a super human who can do it all by herself. But when she speaks, she seems to think that the world either is revolving around her, trying to make herself look like some victim while having her cohorts go out in a Karl Rove mode. Not a very endearing trait.

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My detailed take on why NOT Bernie Sanders [View all] uponit7771 Feb 2016 OP

I would rather have an honest progressive fighting for real change, so I will vote Bernie. peacebird Feb 2016 #1

Hillary Clinton isn't a perfect honest person ... neither is Bernie Sanders. uponit7771 Feb 2016 #30

Hillary has been caught in multiple flat out lies. Bernie? No. peacebird Feb 2016 #34

Hillary is not Lucifers daughter either... She's honest ENOUGH... not a glaring recommendation uponit7771 Feb 2016 #59

why did you conflate a smear of Bernie in your original post? saying neither was totally honest? peacebird Feb 2016 #64

It was a big post, could you point that out for me? tia uponit7771 Feb 2016 #83

30. Hillary Clinton isn't a perfect honest person ... neither is Bernie Sanders. peacebird Feb 2016 #109

uponit: It is my opinion when you befriend/mentor/vacation with roguevalley Feb 2016 #113

Could you show evidence of her doing this? Also, can the same be said about Sanders relationship uponit7771 Feb 2016 #115

here you go roguevalley Feb 2016 #174

That doesn't look good... can you saynthe same for biiga and west? tia uponit7771 Feb 2016 #190

I have no idea what they/that are/is. roguevalley Feb 2016 #221

> Emelio Zappata says it all for me and Bernie-- geologic Feb 2016 #169

Did you actually just say "She's honest ENOUGH"? Bubzer Feb 2016 #133

Yeap, to some that's stupid to people who are expecting adequte she'll work. Sanders gets uponit7771 Feb 2016 #146

"She's honest enough"? Another 'backhanded compliment', LOL John Poet Feb 2016 #226

"She's honest ENOUGH." SheilaT Feb 2016 #142

Good question, no it is... I'm not expecting Obama out of Clinton and Clinton is not Bush... uponit7771 Feb 2016 #149

She screwed up a whole lot more than the sniper fire thing, SheilaT Feb 2016 #159

she is not honest at all Duckhunter935 Feb 2016 #56

George Bush lied when the truth served him better, I don't think Hillary is on that level uponit7771 Feb 2016 #60

I go into more detail but then I'd have to dodge "SNIPER FIRE" :) azurnoir Feb 2016 #63

lol Duckhunter935 Feb 2016 #69

You're right, she's dead on screwed up with some crap before ... she's still not a consistent uponit7771 Feb 2016 #76

'scuse me? who is the "abhorrent liar" who is the worst of "us"? azurnoir Feb 2016 #121

Bush, ... Hillary's not.... and honest enough to believe that she's down for progressive causes ... uponit7771 Feb 2016 #124

I've never considered Bush to be one of "us" and Hillary she's only "down" with progressive causes azurnoir Feb 2016 #129

Sanders isn't? You do understand his take on why reparations isn't part of the revolution right? uponit7771 Feb 2016 #157

yes I do understand, do you? also do you understand Obama's take on reparations? azurnoir Feb 2016 #160

so you really think she is looking in to it? Duckhunter935 Feb 2016 #71

No, I don't think Sanders had JUST some "criticisms" either uponit7771 Feb 2016 #77

George Bush lied.... Hillary is on that level AlbertCat Feb 2016 #144

No she's not... (said with exasperation) ... damn, stop that .. Bush lied when the truth would uponit7771 Feb 2016 #153

So far this week end.... in this DEMOCRATIC primary... AlbertCat Feb 2016 #161

Me too. Besides, Doctors will basically have the same pay after Medicare For All. Enthusiast Feb 2016 #48

Which does nothing to pair the high cost of HC in America, that takes care of low hanging fruit wher uponit7771 Feb 2016 #61

In my area some doctors have converted to LibDemAlways Feb 2016 #102

Not having office staff dealing with a dizzying array of private insurance companies would probably AlbertCat Feb 2016 #155

There's A LOT Of That In My Area and There's Also... ChiciB1 Feb 2016 #212

then there won't be anything like the cost savings he is saying there would be dsc Feb 2016 #147

+1, Doctors and Pharma would have to take massive cuts too... his revolution has too uponit7771 Feb 2016 #151

You're talking doctor's "officies" and "clinics". You're talking "hospitals". Enthusiast Feb 2016 #166

what do you think the biggest part of a doctor's office is dsc Feb 2016 #168

How do all those other countrys manage? Enthusiast Feb 2016 #177

caps on doctors pay for specialist... uponit7771 Feb 2016 #198

hearty kick and recommend! boston bean Feb 2016 #2

Wow, what a well written and thought out piece. At least for me it is a lot to think about still_one Feb 2016 #3

thx uponit7771 Feb 2016 #62

My take? 99Forever Feb 2016 #4

Who cares? n/t JTFrog Feb 2016 #40

Apparently the OP, since he asked. 99Forever Feb 2016 #51

LOL! n/t JTFrog Feb 2016 #52

Huge +1! Enthusiast Feb 2016 #49

Soooooooo, what you mostly have is ad homs which are an indicator of weak arguments? tia uponit7771 Feb 2016 #80

Uh no. 99Forever Feb 2016 #128

Predictable, fearful and not even worth commenting on cali Feb 2016 #5

It obviously was worth commenting on, because you did Empowerer Feb 2016 #24

I should have said not worth parsing or dismantling. cali Feb 2016 #26

No you haven't Cali, pick a small section and lets go at then... you're not... uponit7771 Feb 2016 #28

With savage glee, my dear upaloosa. cali Feb 2016 #42

1. Strawman, no one said he hasn't been fighting for minority causes he's just not going uponit7771 Feb 2016 #55

Lol. You need to learn what a strawman is. You certainly use armies of them, upa cali Feb 2016 #97

Cali, stop calling me upa... I don't know who that person is and now your arguments are flailing to uponit7771 Feb 2016 #120

Ok. But sorry, I dismantled you false claims. cali Feb 2016 #181

Ad homs are an indicator of a weak position or weak retort uponit7771 Feb 2016 #27

And I smashed your false claims. Admittedly, it's child's play. cali Feb 2016 #99

No you didn't, your overt strawman is an attempt at deffection... you can't proffer something as uponit7771 Feb 2016 #123

As opposed to a lot of the tripe that you post incessantly? Beacool Feb 2016 #167

Yum, yum: tripe... geologic Feb 2016 #170

I agree with you but his supporters think he can walk on water doc03 Feb 2016 #6

2008 called. They want their stupid meme back. nt Bonobo Feb 2016 #9

"The skies will open..." worked so well last time around though. frylock Feb 2016 #65

Not at all. He's represented me for decades and I am cali Feb 2016 #10

No but, I would rather drink a glass of water with Bernie than a flute of champagne with Hillary. Hiraeth Feb 2016 #58

I can sum up your detailed take in five words tularetom Feb 2016 #7

... not only that but he used some really screwed up racialied bomb throwers to do it in front uponit7771 Feb 2016 #156

My take is Bernie needs your help cause he ain't superman. Sorry that push button Democracy Kip Humphrey Feb 2016 #8

Duck!!! In coming. eom 1StrongBlackMan Feb 2016 #11

This juxtaposition of free edcation with our bloated military... stone space Feb 2016 #12

Hard to say.. speaktruthtopower Feb 2016 #13

Cutting out private HCI would be about 200 billion, that's in his own proposals... thx for uponit7771 Feb 2016 #90

Looks like the regular spin of the usual falsehoods. Katashi_itto Feb 2016 #14

Like Sanders campaign these retorts begs the question; "Where's the beef!?!!?" uponit7771 Feb 2016 #57

All true, but it doesn't matter frazzled Feb 2016 #15

This /nt. Nonhlanhla Feb 2016 #31

Sanders and Trump selling anger" -- yup: In simple phrases, Hortensis Feb 2016 #32

YES... they're angry, mostly at having to cede power to the others uponit7771 Feb 2016 #37

Yeah, that's why people are angry. frylock Feb 2016 #68

The great Centrist revolution was a failure noiretextatique Feb 2016 #217

+1 n/t JTFrog Feb 2016 #41

.... a well written piece of defeatist propaganda. I don't agree with a word of it. nt ladjf Feb 2016 #16

Good analysis mainstreetonce Feb 2016 #17

Still a better choice... Bohemianwriter Feb 2016 #18

Sanders hasn't focused people towards these revolutions in the past why in the world would anyone uponit7771 Feb 2016 #92

A revolution is never planned behind closed doors... Bohemianwriter Feb 2016 #186

ummm. yes it is... uponit7771 Feb 2016 #199

So an uprising is carefully crafted by the elites towards themselves? Bohemianwriter Feb 2016 #213

I appreciate your taking the time and effiort to explain so comprehensively Armstead Feb 2016 #19

you sound like all the other TV talking heads SoLeftIAmRight Feb 2016 #20

Good... so you understand why some are voting for Hillary? uponit7771 Feb 2016 #192

Kicked and highly recommended n/t cosmicone Feb 2016 #21

4 words to support Sanders- A more perfect union. Gregorian Feb 2016 #22

Amen. n/t vaberella Feb 2016 #23

I'm a progressive fighting for real change - so I'm voting for Hllary. OhZone Feb 2016 #25

Yes! peggysue2 Feb 2016 #98

Intresting ejbr Feb 2016 #29

guns?!...I fimd his well documented support of them hurtful uponit7771 Feb 2016 #194

He's not perfect, ejbr Feb 2016 #215

sorry, but you lost me at "lacks any practicality" tk2kewl Feb 2016 #33

...then they spell check you... then you...... uponit7771 Feb 2016 #126

sorry phone auto complete tk2kewl Feb 2016 #140

FDR colsohlibgal Feb 2016 #35

FDR had 80% and 70% dem congress's throughout his term(S) as president..... YES, it would've uponit7771 Feb 2016 #36

Does that explain why Obama allowed Goldman Sachs and the big banks Tiggeroshii Feb 2016 #130

HELL YES!!! K, do you think Obama would go lighter on them if his congress was 80% dem? uponit7771 Feb 2016 #195

I like how you wrote a lot of words and yet avoided hitting anything of substance. Kalidurga Feb 2016 #38

You linked to the Ron Paul Institute? Fuck Ron Paul. JTFrog Feb 2016 #43

Is that video of Bernie or someone else named Ron Paul? Kalidurga Feb 2016 #44

Why would you drive traffic with click bait to Ron Paul's website? JTFrog Feb 2016 #45

If you want another source all you have to do is ask nicely. Kalidurga Feb 2016 #46

Another? JTFrog Feb 2016 #47

It's good to know that hate puts blinders on people Kalidurga Feb 2016 #50

Oh I know the source doesn't matter to you. JTFrog Feb 2016 #54

sorce-rer... geologic Feb 2016 #163

The problem with a self imposed bubble of PC sources LiberalLovinLug Feb 2016 #183

I miss the old DU so much. JTFrog Feb 2016 #185

Well I just think we have to stop this purity test...if a source actually HELPS us. LiberalLovinLug Feb 2016 #189

I wouldn't even bother reasoning with this poster -- the video is clearly from Bernie's YT channel JonLeibowitz Feb 2016 #227

This is false on its face... I'll get back to you in a second. Come now let us reason together uponit7771 Feb 2016 #73

You would have to have wrote something of reason. Kalidurga Feb 2016 #104

So what that he's talked about it... that's where it ends, he's not proffered a workable plan to get uponit7771 Feb 2016 #138

I find it odd you set the bar so high for Bernie and literally no one else. Kalidurga Feb 2016 #145

Sanders bashes Hillary for taken money from wall street, HE set the high bar on her so uponit7771 Feb 2016 #235

Huge difference between being beholden to the party and being beholden to the 1%. Kalidurga Feb 2016 #237

Cause the party is full of working class folk right?! REALLY?! uponit7771 Feb 2016 #239

No it isn't false. He is correct pinebox Feb 2016 #106

Thoughtful essay mcar Feb 2016 #39

thx! uponit7771 Feb 2016 #204

Spreading Ever More Establishment FUD - So Predictable cantbeserious Feb 2016 #53

Ad homs are an indicator of a weak position uponit7771 Feb 2016 #95

No Ad Hominem - Though Sloppy Posting Of Establishment FUD cantbeserious Feb 2016 #116

More ad homs suggest a weak position uponit7771 Feb 2016 #125

Posting Establishment FUD Represents A Weak Position cantbeserious Feb 2016 #127

Excellent! I agree with this message! BooScout Feb 2016 #66

Thx, hopefully I don't get the dreaded "This Message has been hidden..." uponit7771 Feb 2016 #96

Point by point... jeff47 Feb 2016 #67

good job-- you nailed it Fast Walker 52 Feb 2016 #78

:hattip: jeff47 Feb 2016 #87

Thx, I will get back to this reply in a sec... come now, let us reason together... regards uponit7771 Feb 2016 #86

nice summary Locrian Feb 2016 #131

I wish I had included one other thing. jeff47 Feb 2016 #139

yes Locrian Feb 2016 #175

Well done! pberq Feb 2016 #141

Very good post. rec. MerryBlooms Feb 2016 #143

How shocking that your very detailed post has not received a substantive reply from the OP. JonLeibowitz Feb 2016 #228

Yes utterly shocking. I would have never expected they'd fail to respond. jeff47 Feb 2016 #232

My parents house burned down this weekend, it was the house in KC that was on FAUX news... uponit7771 Feb 2016 #234

I am so sorry n/t wildeyed Feb 2016 #240

Point by point back uponit7771 Feb 2016 #236

In one word... risky. DCBob Feb 2016 #70

funny that is how Hillary is for me Duckhunter935 Feb 2016 #72

Funny.. not surprised you would feel that way. DCBob Feb 2016 #79

Hillary is just as risky, and is less liberal Fast Walker 52 Feb 2016 #81

Nah.. she will beat any Republican like drum just like she did in the Benghazi interrogations. DCBob Feb 2016 #84

elections are different and a presidential election is a whole other ballgame Fast Walker 52 Feb 2016 #89

And you think running for office in Vermont prepares Bernie for a cut-throat Presidential campaign? DCBob Feb 2016 #93

Wall of words. Can you excerpt the part where you explain why LGBT should support a candidate who Bluenorthwest Feb 2016 #74

Sanders only legislated against LGBT rights for a second... My argument isn't Clinton is ... uponit7771 Feb 2016 #100

Sanders never so legislated. Jon Capehart, is that you? Love the glasses. Bluenorthwest Feb 2016 #178

he's a teller of hard truths, and he's correct on all the major issues Fast Walker 52 Feb 2016 #75

Bernie Sanders got an amendment passed to the ACA letting states choose Single Payer. Eric J in MN Feb 2016 #82

Very good point in this context, something to think about in his support. I'm talking about uponit7771 Feb 2016 #110

In answer to your Highly skewed Question " Where was Sanders ass was at when the left needed his Rev orpupilofnature57 Feb 2016 #85

I have very nuanced and well thought out wildeyed Feb 2016 #88

Excellent analysis pandr32 Feb 2016 #91

YES.. YES and YES... That blood bath would give the GOP another half generation of gerrymandering uponit7771 Feb 2016 #101

Thanks for your input pandr32 Feb 2016 #118

Sanders was interested enough to read the Iraq intelligence report Qutzupalotl Feb 2016 #94

But not interested enough to read how gun manufacture immunity was going to hurt communities uponit7771 Feb 2016 #103

Liability doesn't make sense, nor does your stone throwing. Qutzupalotl Feb 2016 #111

Oh, come on. Bernie knows what's best for people of color. It's not his fault that WE don't know Empowerer Feb 2016 #112

I noticed you changed the subject Qutzupalotl Feb 2016 #148

they always do n/t dana_b Feb 2016 #211

This was interesting mac2766 Feb 2016 #105

Sorry, Bernie Sanders. There is zero evidence of your ‘political revolution’ yet Gothmog Feb 2016 #107

+1, something empirical to add... he could add votes later but it needs to be better than Obama uponit7771 Feb 2016 #114

Then you agree that the revolution is not happening yet Gothmog Feb 2016 #224

LOL, are you clueless? What about the fundraising records he has broke? Denial is not a fact. You... Logical Feb 2016 #132

Where are the million and millions of new voters? Gothmog Feb 2016 #223

Bernie is bringing up important issues One of the 99 Feb 2016 #108

Stopped reading after 1). Fearless Feb 2016 #117

typical cut and run no? uponit7771 Feb 2016 #200

I am not obligated to sit through stupid bullshit. Fearless Feb 2016 #229

Nobody cares about your reason to NOT vote for Bernie. A Simple Game Feb 2016 #119

This is false on its face uponit7771 Feb 2016 #201

You probably aren't very old. It used to be common to have someone you could vote FOR, A Simple Game Feb 2016 #214

You speak for me, uponit7771. nt SunSeeker Feb 2016 #122

Wonderful analysis, Uponit! lunamagica Feb 2016 #134

Incremental progress works. HassleCat Feb 2016 #135

My take? #FeelTheBern and welcome to reality. pinebox Feb 2016 #136

"Foreign policy" is usually shorthand for "Who shall we bomb next?" Jester Messiah Feb 2016 #137

When I see post Marty McGraw Feb 2016 #150

i have been throughout this thread... care to dabble....? tia uponit7771 Feb 2016 #202

( ._.) Marty McGraw Feb 2016 #220

so you accept Clinton's lie about the CFMA? amborin Feb 2016 #152

So Sanders didn't vote for the CFMA?!?! Really, you now his votes are public right? tia uponit7771 Feb 2016 #158

And yet this pinebox Feb 2016 #162

irelevant... Sanders voted for it...Clinton already has poor jusgement by his standards uponit7771 Feb 2016 #207

NOPE, Sanders didn't; there were 2 versions, did you read the blurb? amborin Feb 2016 #165

so yes he did?! both versions were bad uponit7771 Feb 2016 #203

Not Accurate in My View aintitfunny Feb 2016 #154

Thank you, well written essay. Beacool Feb 2016 #164

Me too... geologic Feb 2016 #172

Sorry, but I think that you miss the point.... seekthetruth Feb 2016 #171

...and Sanders hands are NOT CLEAN on that EITHER!!! I think Sanders folk miss the point that if he' uponit7771 Feb 2016 #176

Reason #1: he's being used to take out a Dem frontrunner with a 110% chance of winning the GE. ucrdem Feb 2016 #173

Clinton has no path to victory. basselope Feb 2016 #180

Bill won twice, Barack won twice, and every Dem who has ever won anything will make sure she wins. ucrdem Feb 2016 #182

Bill and Obama both came off disastrous GOP administrations. basselope Feb 2016 #187

Horseshit, Hillary is a loser, especiually if she's going against Trump. Odin2005 Feb 2016 #193

Trump won't win any more than Romney won. Hill just has to keep the Obama coaltion together ucrdem Feb 2016 #219

Flat out not true. wildeyed Feb 2016 #222

Some answers... basselope Feb 2016 #179

posted for return...thx for reply we''l discuss uponit7771 Feb 2016 #206

Everything you say is wrong AgingAmerican Feb 2016 #184

Ad homs are an indicator of a weak position uponit7771 Feb 2016 #188

This "NO WE CAN'T" BS is getting old. Odin2005 Feb 2016 #191

less sad than selling unicorns for good feelings uponit7771 Feb 2016 #196

Thanks for proving my point. Odin2005 Feb 2016 #197

that most of the retort on this thread is ad homs? uponit7771 Feb 2016 #205

More like you are refusing to listen to Bernie supporters... Odin2005 Feb 2016 #210

Unnnnn, noooo... I've responded to people who have outlined objetions. I'm talking about uponit7771 Feb 2016 #225

Stay the course...incrementalism, etc noiretextatique Feb 2016 #218

more of the same old bullshit...no wonder this country is so fucked up bowens43 Feb 2016 #208

Its simple for me. I'm a minority and dont trust him. Lots of us. nt LexVegas Feb 2016 #209

It Would Be Nice IF People Would Take Some Time To Actually ChiciB1 Feb 2016 #216

Excellent OP. K and r. oasis Feb 2016 #230

Kick and Rec! DesertRat Feb 2016 #231

thx uponit7771 Feb 2016 #233

The Pragmatic Case for Bernie Sanders aintitfunny Feb 2016 #238

The case for pragmatism could be made if there were workable plan or a history of his uponit7771 Feb 2016 #241

If you look at Iowa, NH aintitfunny Feb 2016 #242

Excellent points...all. Jitter65 Mar 2016 #243

Kick and unrec. N/t Dawgs Mar 2016 #244