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AOR

(692 posts)
93. What are your views on capitalist social relations ?
Mon Feb 15, 2016, 12:58 PM
Feb 2016

What is your political affiliation. Leftist politics is about power and resources and who controls them. Sanders is not a Marxist or a Leftist (anti-capitalist). Bernie Sanders is a capitalist reformer (a somewhat radical one) who believes that a ruling class of private capital can remain in place. No Marxists or anti-capitalist Leftists believe that. Billionaires are but a symptom of capitalist social relations. Marxists believe the system of social arrangements must be replaced. Expropriation without representation of the ruling class. Not the ruling class "paying their fair share." These terms you're throwing around very loosely matter in context.

Institutionalized racism is a symptom and a by-product that arose from capitalist social relations and the capitalist modes of mass commodity production. Capitalism didn't arise out of institutionalized racism. Institutionalized racism arose from capitalism.


How Poor Black Lives Matter to U.S. Capitalism Today: Reflections on “The New Jim Crow”

--by Paul Street

(Snip)

King Cotton

"Black lives have always mattered to white America primarily as a source of economic exploitation. And white American authorities have never been particularly squeamish about killing and maiming Black Americans in defense and advance of that exploitation. Untold millions of Black slaves were tortured and murdered so that Southern tobacco, rice, sugar and cotton planters could extract vast quantities of surplus value from them. As the historian Edward Baptist has recently shown, the violence that was systematically inflicted on Blacks in the forced labor camps of U.S. cotton slavery generated much of the economic surplus that drove the United States’ emergence as a modern capitalist and industrial state before the U.S. Civil War."

(Snip)

"Still, Black lives mattered to northern white capitalists and authorities mainly as a source of cheap, super-exploited labor. Blacks were kept at the bottom of the northern industrial proletariat by their branded status as racial inferiors. Black workers were concentrated in northern industry’s dirtiest, hottest, most unpleasant, worst-paid and least secure jobs. (In Chicago’s slaughtering and meatpacking industry – a major destination for southern Black migrants from WWI through the 1940s – Black employees’ time-cards were specially marked to make sure that they were the first fired and last re-hired during and after seasonal layoffs and economic downturns.) The northern Black population was penned up in inferior and overcrowded ghetto neighborhoods. “Northern blacks,” historian Thomas Sugrue notes, “lived as second-class citizens, unencumbered by the most blatant of southern-style Jim Crow laws but still trapped in an economic, political, and legal regime that seldom recognized them as equals. In nearly every arena, blacks and whites lived separate, unequal lives.” This de facto racial separatism and disparity was sustained and enforced by violence. The agents of white northern repression included street gangs, property associations, city police, and, when deemed necessary – as during the race riots of 1919 (Chicago), 1943 (Detroit), and the 1960s (across urban America) – the National Guard and the U.S. military."

(Snip)

"Becoming the Raw Material

Today, as across the long neoliberal era that began in the mid-1970s, millions of Black working- and lower- class lives still matter to the U.S. power and profits system primarily as subjects for economic exploitation. The exploitation still relies heavily on violence and repression – violence that all too commonly turns lethal, as with the killings of Mike Brown, Eric Garner, Freddie Gray and the hundreds of other Black Americans (usually but not always young and male) who are killed each year by mostly white police officers in the U.S. But there’s a key difference now. Black lives have been largely torn asunder (along, of course, with many white, Latino, and other U.S. lives) from direct engagement in surplus value-generating productive labor."

(Snip)

"Disturbing Parallels

"The resulting giant army of Black prisoners and “ex-offenders” constitutes a criminalized “underclass” that cycles back and forth between the nation’s worst-off jobless and high-poverty ghetto zip-codes and a sprawling archipelago of high-tech mass confinement holding pens that are mainly located in predominantly white and rural parts of the nation. The prison construction and operation boom – fed by the rising “market” of Black drug criminals – has been a significant source of jobs, tax dollars, and associated local economic “multipliers” for mostly rural (“downstate” in Illinois, “upstate” in New York and Michigan) prison towns. As the distinguished criminologist Todd Clear noted nearly 20 years ago, “Each prisoner represents an economic asset that has been removed from that community and placed elsewhere … represents as much as $25,000 in income for the community in which the prison is located, not to mention the value of constructing the prison facility in the first place. This can be a massive transfer of value: A young male worth a few thousand dollars of support to children and local purchases is transformed into a $25,000 financial asset to a rural prison community.”


Full article at link...

http://www.blackagendareport.com/poor_black_lives_matter_to_capitalism_new_jim_crow

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

If you want to be taken serious try ending the red baiting. libtodeath Feb 2016 #1
There was no red baiting at all cosmicone Feb 2016 #6
This message was self-deleted by its author Xipe Totec Feb 2016 #10
Reading comprehension (heck, reading *period*) is your friend. kath Feb 2016 #28
comrade Bernie ? pangaia Feb 2016 #37
This message was self-deleted by its author cannabis_flower Feb 2016 #103
Quasi-Marxist isn't red-baiting? cannabis_flower Feb 2016 #104
I literally got to that comment and stopped reading the rest. RichVRichV Feb 2016 #127
You're loss - good points made CajunBlazer Feb 2016 #137
Even then...The "Bernie is a one track candidate" is such a false non-starter from the campaign. merrily Feb 2016 #152
I got as far as "comrade Bernie" n/t TubbersUK Feb 2016 #2
wow Merryland Feb 2016 #3
DU REC! bravenak Feb 2016 #4
Of course, that is what the Rev. King believed also. kristopher Feb 2016 #117
Now you're for redbaiting ?! Arazi Feb 2016 #133
Yeah yeah yeah bravenak Feb 2016 #134
This message was self-deleted by its author cosmicone Feb 2016 #5
Kicked and highly recommended n/t cosmicone Feb 2016 #7
Carefully considered post...a heart K & R Sheepshank Feb 2016 #97
thanks for the heart and the K&R kennetha Feb 2016 #107
Blah.Blah. Bernie bad. Hilly good. Blah blah blah cali Feb 2016 #8
+1. nt nc4bo Feb 2016 #9
Yep, My parents knew a lot of filthy-rich people (Father was a surgeon) BlueJazz Feb 2016 #22
I guess that balances out your Blah.Blah. Hilly bad. Bernie good. Blah blah blah. JTFrog Feb 2016 #39
Super intellegent comment CajunBlazer Feb 2016 #138
Some music for a thread about hammers Fumesucker Feb 2016 #11
Always liked Seeger. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Feb 2016 #79
Sanders makes it seem like DURHAM D Feb 2016 #12
Very astute observation ProgressiveEconomist Feb 2016 #147
So what you're saying is you like Ronald Reagan? Gregorian Feb 2016 #13
Wow kennetha Feb 2016 #14
Sorry, I garnered that by reading between the incomplete sentences.. Gregorian Feb 2016 #15
What do you mean wow. Your OP sounds like it was written by a conservative republican. nt m-lekktor Feb 2016 #18
I don't think you can read kennetha Feb 2016 #20
IMO 99Forever Feb 2016 #100
So how do you account for Rev.King believing the same thing as Sanders? kristopher Feb 2016 #119
I got from this that its better to keep minorities poor than to give them jobs or pay them more. RiverLover Feb 2016 #17
Glaring non-sequitur of kennetha Feb 2016 #21
You have now used 'non-sequitor' twice, at least. pangaia Feb 2016 #42
Reagan started this, more or less Recursion Feb 2016 #19
And in the Twitter Era that's sadly what it takes to win Recursion Feb 2016 #16
And another similarity - Assurances that they will fix everything CajunBlazer Feb 2016 #139
Wrong, Bernie Sanders continues to remind us Karma13612 Feb 2016 #145
I feel so sorry for the poor, downtrodden, billionaires being attacked by "comrade" Bernie. Tierra_y_Libertad Feb 2016 #23
Who said billionaires are downtrodden? kennetha Feb 2016 #25
Wouild "Picked on"? Balamed? Scorned? Attacked? Defamed? be more apt. Tierra_y_Libertad Feb 2016 #32
the question is whether billionaires are responsible for kennetha Feb 2016 #38
Which is like asking if the Mafia is responsible for all our ills. Tierra_y_Libertad Feb 2016 #47
Hillary supporters. Nails that see hammers everywhere raised against them. hobbit709 Feb 2016 #24
you seem incapable kennetha Feb 2016 #26
Have you looked in the mirror. hobbit709 Feb 2016 #29
Try responding to something I actually said with a thought of substance kennetha Feb 2016 #31
What substance have you actually provided? hobbit709 Feb 2016 #33
you can't read obviously. kennetha Feb 2016 #35
And you won't. hobbit709 Feb 2016 #41
And, sicles. Don't forget the sickles, comrade. Tierra_y_Libertad Feb 2016 #36
Comrade? let me put forth my biggest randys1 Feb 2016 #27
The billionaire class is absolutely responsible for the decay, My Good Babushka Feb 2016 #30
What about racism and xenophobia kennetha Feb 2016 #34
Maybe this attitude had something to do with it hobbit709 Feb 2016 #40
Right that's the marxist and quasi-marxist line that I was talking about. kennetha Feb 2016 #44
Jay Gould spouting Marxist lines-that IS the funniest thing I've come to in your posts yet. hobbit709 Feb 2016 #46
All Marxists are economic determinists kennetha Feb 2016 #49
Do you even know who Jay Gould was? hobbit709 Feb 2016 #51
yeah. kennetha Feb 2016 #54
So your argument is what? OrwellwasRight Feb 2016 #57
Jeepers. kennetha Feb 2016 #61
Actually I don't. OrwellwasRight Feb 2016 #62
Unfortunately, not many historical examples. Chile might have been floppyboo Feb 2016 #70
What do you believe then? kristopher Feb 2016 #122
Actually keeping the masses from uniting together keeps the elitists in power OrwellwasRight Feb 2016 #53
the question is does it go the other way round. kennetha Feb 2016 #55
Who do you think promoted that? OrwellwasRight Feb 2016 #58
They sure think they do. kennetha Feb 2016 #66
Wrong, wrong, wrong. OrwellwasRight Feb 2016 #68
They immigrant or the black guy kennetha Feb 2016 #71
Um, yes, they are working, for less. OrwellwasRight Feb 2016 #76
yes I know all that kennetha Feb 2016 #80
Again, willful blindness. OrwellwasRight Feb 2016 #85
Ad hominem insults kennetha Feb 2016 #86
Do you even know what ad hominem is? OrwellwasRight Feb 2016 #87
willful blindness kennetha Feb 2016 #90
Uh, no. OrwellwasRight Feb 2016 #91
You are condescending to ProgressiveEconomist Feb 2016 #101
I very much appreciate the fact that you find other posters OrwellwasRight Feb 2016 #114
This sounds like stubborn ProgressiveEconomist Feb 2016 #115
WTF are you talking about? OrwellwasRight Feb 2016 #116
Did you really read and savor every ProgressiveEconomist Feb 2016 #121
It's not that I didn't read it. OrwellwasRight Feb 2016 #128
None so blind ... ProgressiveEconomist Feb 2016 #131
Look in the mirror. OrwellwasRight Feb 2016 #135
Follow your own advice ProgressiveEconomist Feb 2016 #142
You too. OrwellwasRight Feb 2016 #146
You don't think slave-owning was all about money? Erich Bloodaxe BSN Feb 2016 #84
Final Exam Question kennetha Feb 2016 #88
For many reasons. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Feb 2016 #92
I think that's partially right. kennetha Feb 2016 #94
Is Nestle working little white children to death in the cocoa fields? My Good Babushka Feb 2016 #110
Are they responsible for racism or xenophobia? PatrickforO Feb 2016 #154
Are you REALLY this naive? pangaia Feb 2016 #43
naive? kennetha Feb 2016 #45
NOPE, he knows EXACTLY what he is doing. hobbit709 Feb 2016 #50
Sanders is right to see class warfare at the bottom of most of our ills. Orsino Feb 2016 #48
You and I disagree, I think on one thing. kennetha Feb 2016 #52
Economic inequality is linked to racial inequality. Orsino Feb 2016 #56
Definitely in one way you are right. kennetha Feb 2016 #60
Yeah. There's no need to decide which issue must be handled first... Orsino Feb 2016 #72
a meeting of the minds! kennetha Feb 2016 #73
So much work... TL;DR whatchamacallit Feb 2016 #59
short version: Kennetha can read Bernie's mind, Erich Bloodaxe BSN Feb 2016 #78
Yeah, kinda got the gist from the title whatchamacallit Feb 2016 #89
A huge K&R - GREAT Post - darn, I am out of hearts CajunBlazer Feb 2016 #140
Dissent will NOT be tolerated. The revolution must proceed. Resistance is futile. Persondem Feb 2016 #63
We need a man with a hammer and nails. It's time to build some wealth Autumn Feb 2016 #64
Kennetha, you wrote: "They have to draw workers from somewhere. floppyboo Feb 2016 #65
What helps the billionaires is a fearful and alienated society. Ron Green Feb 2016 #67
Why don't we have this already? kennetha Feb 2016 #69
"the billionaire class has almost not say in the management of local schools"? OrwellwasRight Feb 2016 #74
I'd be interested to know your age and experience in matters of Ron Green Feb 2016 #77
I'm an old black guy, father born in the depths of Jim Crow segregation, dirt poor sharecropper. kennetha Feb 2016 #82
OK - I'm an old white guy, grew up in a county 40% black (my first playmates Ron Green Feb 2016 #112
"Moving into post-racial society"? ProgressiveEconomist Feb 2016 #99
See my reply #112. Ron Green Feb 2016 #113
And Hillary is a woman who has a hammer but doesn't believe in using it, Erich Bloodaxe BSN Feb 2016 #75
Actually she wants to use the claw end to help pry up the nails. hobbit709 Feb 2016 #83
Yes, because of the world's oldest profession. Festivito Feb 2016 #81
What are your views on capitalist social relations ? AOR Feb 2016 #93
Good stuff. kennetha Feb 2016 #95
Kick and recommend. oasis Feb 2016 #96
BRILLIANT post! Scapegoating ProgressiveEconomist Feb 2016 #98
"He's just a man with a hammer who sees nails everywhere." workinclasszero Feb 2016 #102
"Money trumps peace" azmom Feb 2016 #105
Well at least he doesn't see dollar signs everywhere he looks. n/t nichomachus Feb 2016 #106
Yep, nails everywhere... TCJ70 Feb 2016 #108
Billions are being made on our broken immigration azmom Feb 2016 #109
The US is not a single issue nation Gothmog Feb 2016 #111
Racism thrives in the absence of class solidarity. lumberjack_jeff Feb 2016 #118
So in other words UglyGreed Feb 2016 #120
See, you support the candidate who attacked my basic rights on the basis that her Bible is a hammer Bluenorthwest Feb 2016 #123
Great essay, thanks for posting it. Beacool Feb 2016 #124
Another rare post in ProgressiveEconomist Feb 2016 #125
Thanks for the link. Beacool Feb 2016 #129
Agreed. Jensen downplayed ProgressiveEconomist Feb 2016 #132
True... Beacool Feb 2016 #136
I think paid family leave ProgressiveEconomist Feb 2016 #141
Yes, I like Pete Seeger. Beacool Feb 2016 #149
That analogy is used to explain people (like Hillary) who always use the military option when Motown_Johnny Feb 2016 #126
How American Thinker of you... stunning imagery. Ellipsis Feb 2016 #130
TL;DR. Stopped at "Comrade Bernie" because the derp started to splash over the rim of the bowl. Warren DeMontague Feb 2016 #143
Otherwise known as having a coherent message eridani Feb 2016 #144
breaking down all the barriers kennetha Feb 2016 #148
There is nothing in there about what she proposes to do about any of that. n/t eridani Feb 2016 #150
Comrade Sanders? Desperate much? merrily Feb 2016 #151
Quasi-Marxist, is it? PatrickforO Feb 2016 #153
Excellent post. lovemydog Feb 2016 #155
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