2016 Postmortem

Bettie

(19,759 posts)

222. This is it

Reply to Flying Squirrel (Original post)

Wed Feb 17, 2016, 07:57 PM

Feb 2016

It’s a simple case of feeling disenfranchised, and refusing to participate in a corrupt system that screws you with one hand and expects your support with the other. It’s too insulting—too utterly demeaning—to play along.

Feeling disenfranchised: there is a lot of truth there. A lot of people do feel like the system is rigged against them and, it is. After a while, fighting against an opponent you will never beat just feels futile.

That leads to the next point: the system IS corrupt.

Those of us who are not One Percenters....well, remember P.T. Barnum? There's one born every minute. Credulous fools.

I'll vote, because I have kids.

Because I haven't totally lost hope for a better future for them.

But I do understand the frustration of being asked to support candidates who only "care" about anyone below the 1% when they want a vote.

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Why many Sanders supporters claim they won't vote for Hillary: [View all] Flying Squirrel Feb 2016 OP

Such an immature way to look at our system. Play my way or I take the ball and go home. randys1 Feb 2016 #1

Thing is... TTUBatfan2008 Feb 2016 #5

Who attacked Sanders supporters? The attacks here were against HIllary 100-1 randys1 Feb 2016 #9

Let me see here... TTUBatfan2008 Feb 2016 #11

Don't Bernie supporters get tired of lying? Nonhlanhla Feb 2016 #15

Strongly implied... TTUBatfan2008 Feb 2016 #18

No, it was NOT strongly implied Nonhlanhla Feb 2016 #29

Sold her soul? When did he say this? earthshine Feb 2016 #39

Your fellow Bernie supporter, Nonhlanhla Feb 2016 #66

It would seem we "respectfully" disagree. earthshine Feb 2016 #201

And Sanders is not a Democrat, he's a "democratic" Socialist. Beacool Feb 2016 #90

whatever he is, it's an improvement navarth Feb 2016 #109

And Hillary is not a Democrat...She is a Corporatist INdemo Feb 2016 #163

And this is exactly WHY so many Bernie supporters will never support Hillary, rhetoric like yours pinebox Feb 2016 #192

What rhetoric? Beacool Feb 2016 #196

Oh please you know EXACTLY what you're doing pinebox Feb 2016 #199

There's also this. Beacool Feb 2016 #218

What change won't he be able to deliver pinebox Feb 2016 #219

By your logic Hillary is definitely a Republican. cui bono Feb 2016 #205

Hillary, Bill, Barack - third-way democrats - not "real" democrats earthshine Feb 2016 #203

That "It was 'implied'" stuff is what they say ... 1StrongBlackMan Feb 2016 #153

That's nothing... TTUBatfan2008 Feb 2016 #42

both sides do it. nt wendylaroux Feb 2016 #40

Hear, hear!!! Beacool Feb 2016 #88

Oh, really? Art_from_Ark Feb 2016 #211

This message was self-deleted by its author noiretextatique Feb 2016 #220

When taking the ball and going home is your only power, sometimes you have to use it krawhitham Feb 2016 #53

So TeaParty tactics are OK? nt. Thor_MN Feb 2016 #59

And yet, they get offended when someone called them the Tea Party of the Left. Beacool Feb 2016 #102

To be fair, most are vastly more intelligent than your average Tea Bagger... Thor_MN Feb 2016 #108

And yet that Tea Party movement got people elected. pinebox Feb 2016 #193

You know you will not be successful shaming people into voting. That you can be sure of. In fact Ed Suspicious Feb 2016 #119

Taking the ball and going home is childish and will elect Trump. Thor_MN Feb 2016 #126

Both sides are trying to shame the other into voting for their candidate. Also threatening that..... kerry-is-my-prez Feb 2016 #195

yep! ccinamon Feb 2016 #97

No that isn't the only power mythology Feb 2016 #181

So exactly right TeddyR Feb 2016 #56

I don't really think you can say that NJCher Feb 2016 #69

I'm a bit confused TeddyR Feb 2016 #94

You misunderstand, the ball is not ours to take home. Rewarding bad behavior only perpetuates it. A Simple Game Feb 2016 #89

Rewarding bad behavior only perpetuates it. NAILED! ccinamon Feb 2016 #99

And you will have helped it! LW1977 Feb 2016 #174

I don't know if "immature" is the right word. Gore1FL Feb 2016 #101

It's up to HRC and the party establishment to actively reach out to them. Ken Burch Feb 2016 #118

I understand the thinking. Oldenuff Feb 2016 #138

+1 LW1977 Feb 2016 #169

"They feel disenfranchised" Betty Karlson Feb 2016 #202

I also have another name for them NoJacketRequired Feb 2016 #2

yep, nothing to lose. naked self interest as much as any other voter. bettyellen Feb 2016 #20

'Nothing to lose' like Hillary supporters who live in multimillion dollar manhattan condos Warren DeMontague Feb 2016 #50

Hillary has tons of low income supporters. And they have been slammed here for being ignorant bettyellen Feb 2016 #54

If you say so. Warren DeMontague Feb 2016 #55

nope, we were talking about those who will not vote in the general election. they are often viewed bettyellen Feb 2016 #73

Well I'm gonna support the nominee, I always support the nominee. Warren DeMontague Feb 2016 #167

True, was just supplying the context you omitted. bettyellen Feb 2016 #168

fair enough. Warren DeMontague Feb 2016 #176

WOW....Perfectly said! ccinamon Feb 2016 #103

Nothing to gain? How about SCOTUS appointments who are not right wing ideologes . . . brush Feb 2016 #117

Any SCOTUS appointments Sanders makes will be at least as progressive as Hillary's. Warren DeMontague Feb 2016 #166

Nope- he has only one litmus test- Citizen's United. And he deserves every bit of grief he is going bettyellen Feb 2016 #170

Saying that is a litmus test is not the same thing as saying that is his only consideration. Warren DeMontague Feb 2016 #173

It is his ONLY litmus test. That is FUCKED for women. Not acceptable. bettyellen Feb 2016 #175

You honestly are suggesting the guy with the 100% NARAL rating is gonna nominate an anti-choicer. Warren DeMontague Feb 2016 #178

Why the hell does he say ONE litmus test? I think he usually says what he means. bettyellen Feb 2016 #180

Personally, I would've appreciated it if the debates could've spent some time on reproductive choice Warren DeMontague Feb 2016 #183

Pretty sure there was an op today where Hillary actually put specific abortion bans on the table Matt_in_STL Feb 2016 #212

Try again what? brush Feb 2016 #204

Well thanks for your contribution, Mister Non Sequitur. Warren DeMontague Feb 2016 #207

I'll post wherever I want and will be voting for the dem nominee whoever it is in the GE brush Feb 2016 #208

far be it for me to suggest anything different, man. Warren DeMontague Feb 2016 #209

Are you for real??????? Beacool Feb 2016 #100

Hillary has a lot of millionaire supporters. Gore1FL Feb 2016 #105

And as quiet as it is kept ... so does Sanders. eom. 1StrongBlackMan Feb 2016 #157

Clearly. Ben Cohen and Jerry Greenfield are a notable two. Gore1FL Feb 2016 #162

This message was self-deleted by its author Warren DeMontague Feb 2016 #171

I was referring to post 100. Gore1FL Feb 2016 #182

Sorry, my bad! Warren DeMontague Feb 2016 #184

Reading Comprehension. It's not just a good idea, it's... yeah, it's a good idea. Warren DeMontague Feb 2016 #165

I've heard your stale line of reasoning over and over and over and over. Maedhros Feb 2016 #46

+1. VulgarPoet Feb 2016 #77

Further, the Democratic Party has gone out of its way to make us unwelcome in their Party. Maedhros Feb 2016 #149

I tend to think they would rather lose us than their corporate sponsors. Jackilope Feb 2016 #159

The age of loyalty oaths is over with. VulgarPoet Feb 2016 #177

Excellent! This is exactly where I am at as well! ccinamon Feb 2016 #106

I wish we still had a like button chervilant Feb 2016 #110

Exactly. jwirr Feb 2016 #111

Well, that's one way of looking at it. But from the other side... Jester Messiah Feb 2016 #80

This message was self-deleted by its author Change has come Feb 2016 #197

They have nothing to lose because all the people that keep getting elected have already given it CBGLuthier Feb 2016 #206

As a liberal Democrat who's had to hold my nose for 40 years... HooptieWagon Feb 2016 #3

Ditto n/t Bjornsdotter Feb 2016 #17

It's our turn now! Viva la revolucion! InAbLuEsTaTe Feb 2016 #22

Yep. Been waiting a long time for this. HooptieWagon Feb 2016 #23

Yes. I refuse to do it anymore. 840high Feb 2016 #35

Nearly 24 years here, and what has it gotten us? Kittycat Feb 2016 #187

If we continue to hold our noses and vote for them... HooptieWagon Feb 2016 #188

And we keep sliding further to the right. N/t Kittycat Feb 2016 #189

That is what they're paid to do. HooptieWagon Feb 2016 #190

I will vote for her if I have to, but I will be crying inside over what might have been. GreenPartyVoter Feb 2016 #4

My nose holding days for the lesser of two evils are over. Tierra_y_Libertad Feb 2016 #6

Or they see it as a choosing "tough love" over enabling Bernin4U Feb 2016 #7

Sanders supporters obviously have no problems NoJacketRequired Feb 2016 #8

Actually, we do. That's why we don't support Hillary Clinton Lorien Feb 2016 #14

Wow, from that graphic, the choice is clear... InAbLuEsTaTe Feb 2016 #24

Her supporters won't even try to deny that her policies are far right of center Lorien Feb 2016 #31

Progressive, yeah sure. SammyWinstonJack Feb 2016 #32

Can I have some of what you're smoking? NoJacketRequired Feb 2016 #33

You are obviously smoking the straw. earthshine Feb 2016 #44

At best, another Kennedy. Jester Messiah Feb 2016 #84

That graph is very troubling. Would you please post the link to the page where you found it. MerryBlooms Feb 2016 #37

Here... There's a good bit more to the site as well including a test to locate you on the chart Fumesucker Feb 2016 #60

I don't see the result of Clinton personally taking that quiz. MerryBlooms Feb 2016 #87

Yes, those quizzes are based on some very flimsy premises. Maedhros Feb 2016 #152

America won't move forward with two Right Wings. DJ13 Feb 2016 #137

I took the test! Elmer S. E. Dump Feb 2016 #140

Economic Left/Right: -7.75 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -5.49 DJ13 Feb 2016 #160

That's why I don't want Hillary. 840high Feb 2016 #36

even if her buddies hadn't been the ones who gave us Clarence Thomas, MisterP Feb 2016 #71

Hi11ary supporters chervilant Feb 2016 #116

The primaries will decide that. NoJacketRequired Feb 2016 #121

It's like people don't remember Bush's years. joshcryer Feb 2016 #10

Like the Iraq war? Fumesucker Feb 2016 #43

Well, we voted for two who voted for it. joshcryer Feb 2016 #49

we voted for them because they were the only choice obviously navarth Feb 2016 #98

Well I voted for Dean. joshcryer Feb 2016 #141

Good on ya for both navarth Feb 2016 #143

So would go door to door for Clinton? joshcryer Feb 2016 #150

that's a tough one navarth Feb 2016 #151

I don't anticipate a need. joshcryer Feb 2016 #155

Amen to that. Plus, what if she *does* bomb Iran? That will make Lorien Feb 2016 #12

It's the same reason people riot and burn down a grocery store, even though they need groceries Cheese Sandwich Feb 2016 #13

I like this. It does feel like the only time that dana_b Feb 2016 #79

Most millennials seem to think that Clinton is simply the best of all the Republicans running for Attorney in Texas Feb 2016 #16

This ought to be a factor in Hillary supporters' thinking, but it isn't. Marr Feb 2016 #19

I agree Marr monicaangela Feb 2016 #34

Welded at the hip to Wall Street and the MIC and their evil interests, hifiguy Feb 2016 #41

People who like Hillary's economic policies are closer to Jeb than to Bernie. So maybe they don't GoneFishin Feb 2016 #135

I will not vote FOR her. But I will vote against the GOP nominee. jillan Feb 2016 #21

+1 navarth Feb 2016 #107

I fear Bernie's young voters will stay home left-of-center2012 Feb 2016 #25

I don't just fear it, I'm certain of it. HooptieWagon Feb 2016 #38

They might vote for Bloomberg n/t left-of-center2012 Feb 2016 #92

Youth and lefties? No way. HooptieWagon Feb 2016 #95

The only way I'd vote for her EdwardBernays Feb 2016 #26

every Democrat since 1976 Roy Ellefson Feb 2016 #27

In 2008 I enthusiastically supported the historic nominee AlbertCat Feb 2016 #65

Standing O from a 58 year old! ccinamon Feb 2016 #114

74 years old and totally agree with you. jwirr Feb 2016 #131

we are the same age noiretextatique Feb 2016 #221

I'm over 65. How does this rationale apply to me?! nm floriduck Feb 2016 #28

If both choices in the general election have often been unpalatable to you ... Martin Eden Feb 2016 #63

I'm glad for you. floriduck Feb 2016 #68

I'm still willing to vote for the lesser "evil" Martin Eden Feb 2016 #139

I understand in a way monicaangela Feb 2016 #30

America's foreign policy is a perfect example of how voting changes nothing. Maedhros Feb 2016 #48

President Obama has made a lot of social change in this nation monicaangela Feb 2016 #81

President Obama hasn't exactly been a warrior for social change. It's more like Gene Debs Feb 2016 #123

I believe you helped make my point. Maedhros Feb 2016 #142

I would never suggest naivety BainsBane Feb 2016 #45

What reason do I have to think that campaign finance will improve in a Clinton presidency? JonLeibowitz Feb 2016 #52

Her position on the issues is clearly outlined BainsBane Feb 2016 #72

I care about record. She can say anything she wants -- I care about the evidence. JonLeibowitz Feb 2016 #76

THIS. nt navarth Feb 2016 #112

So glad to hear that Reagan had no effect on government. jeff47 Feb 2016 #58

That wasn't the point. BainsBane Feb 2016 #62

And that's how he changed the system. jeff47 Feb 2016 #67

I think they know precisely what they are doing. AlbertCat Feb 2016 #70

Are you disputing the GOP would appoint nominees BainsBane Feb 2016 #146

+1 BeanMusical Feb 2016 #147

Kids know we live in an oligarchy nadinbrzezinski Feb 2016 #47

More and more by the day krawhitham Feb 2016 #51

I'm a Bernie supporter and this is stupid Feeling the Bern Feb 2016 #57

+ 1000000000000 !!!!!!!!!!! orpupilofnature57 Feb 2016 #83

Honestly, though, when it comes down to a choice between a Republican and a Gene Debs Feb 2016 #128

Because I'd rather have a president I agree with 60% of the time than one I agree with Feeling the Bern Feb 2016 #136

You Have To Read The Article.... Billsmile Feb 2016 #61

Call it what you will Got it Feb 2016 #64

The best reason in the world is I don't want to. Mason Williams Tierra_y_Libertad Feb 2016 #74

Whom you choose to vote for is a personal decision, nyabingi Feb 2016 #75

I've yet to meet one of these people..... ghostsinthemachine Feb 2016 #78

well that's good for you and Hillary dana_b Feb 2016 #91

I'm 58 and he has me lock , stock and support !! I'd vote for Hillary but I wouldn't want to . n/t orpupilofnature57 Feb 2016 #82

HUGE K & R !!! WillyT Feb 2016 #85

HUGE Subject Title onehandle Feb 2016 #122

They are young, immature and emotional. Beacool Feb 2016 #86

"They are young, immature and emotional." Wow. How magnificently Gene Debs Feb 2016 #130

Keep on shitting on Millennials, that will help Hillary!!! Odin2005 Feb 2016 #144

Well, they are the ones acting like children. Beacool Feb 2016 #164

And as long as Bill Clinton keeps kicking dirt on Bernie's supporters ... DrBulldog Feb 2016 #93

Message auto-removed Name removed Feb 2016 #96

Same here. n/t PonyUp Feb 2016 #124

That absoulutely nails it IMO litlbilly Feb 2016 #104

I will not vote for another Clinton because SciDude Feb 2016 #113

Posting an article encouraging people not to vote for the Democratic nominee. What a disingenuous still_one Feb 2016 #115

Message auto-removed Name removed Feb 2016 #125

Because this is the DEMOCRATIC UNDERGROUND, and the TOS are NOT to post articles still_one Feb 2016 #129

Post removed Post removed Feb 2016 #133

Translation: They are rooting for President CruzTrumpRubioBush. onehandle Feb 2016 #120

Nader is an arragont asshole, who lives on his millions from his mutual funds and B.S. still_one Feb 2016 #127

You just described most of the 1%. n/t PonyUp Feb 2016 #145

That nails it. I see many posts from people trying to convince themselves it is untrue. But GoneFishin Feb 2016 #132

I keep seeing posts likening Sanders to McGovern noamnety Feb 2016 #134

SCOTUS is at stake! LW1977 Feb 2016 #179

simmer simmer simmer noamnety Feb 2016 #213

I ONLY came back to this party for Sanders basselope Feb 2016 #148

Sounds about right. VulgarPoet Feb 2016 #215

My problem with HRC is very simple. I don't believe a word she says. mikehiggins Feb 2016 #154

It's every American's right to be an idiot. Starry Messenger Feb 2016 #156

or a pro war, corporatist, NAFTA dana_b Feb 2016 #158

Or an idiot Trump serf. Your choice. Starry Messenger Feb 2016 #198

Sure, the immature Naderites feel that way. geek tragedy Feb 2016 #161

+1 I'm upset with this, didn't think Bernie would lead youth up a garden path flamingdem Feb 2016 #191

Not voting for Clinton if she wins the nomination is a GOP applegrove Feb 2016 #172

I will vote for the fiture I wish to be a part of. PowerToThePeople Feb 2016 #185

Some folks may be tired of continually being told to choose between the... Joe the Revelator Feb 2016 #186

How many times am I going to have to say this? pinebox Feb 2016 #194

And there is that IWR vote!! nt Live and Learn Feb 2016 #200

If I feel the primary is stolen from Bernie by the Hillary machine olddots Feb 2016 #210

Voted for Hillary in 2000 for senator Laughing Mirror Feb 2016 #214

oh, bullshit bigtree Feb 2016 #216

I run into them all the time. raouldukelives Feb 2016 #217

This is it Bettie Feb 2016 #222