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2016 Postmortem
In reply to the discussion: Maddow (aka Mrs. Selective Outrage) is a LIAR [View all]kristopher
(29,798 posts)64. They are playing a part.
And since you obviously have no substance behind your denial, the weight of your snide opinion is, to say the least, minimal.
Now about Paul Krugman
Lyndon B. Johnson School of Public Affairs
The University of Texas at Austin Austin, TX 78712
February 18, 2016
To:
The Honorable Alan Krueger
The Honorable Austan Goolbee
The Honorable Christina Romer
The Honorable Laura D'Andrea Tyson
Dear Alan, Austan, Christina and Laura,
I was highly interested to see your letter of yesterday's date to Senator Sanders and Professor Gerald Friedman. I respond here as a former Executive Director of the Joint Economic Committee the congressional counterpart to the CEA.
You write that you have applied rigor to your analyses of economic proposals by Democrats and Republicans. On reading this sentence I looked to the bottom of the page, to find a reference or link to your rigorous review of Professor Friedman's study. I found nothing there.
You go on to state that Professor Friedman makes extreme claims that cannot be supported by the economic evidence. You object to the projection of huge beneficial impacts on growth rates, income and employment that exceed even the most grandiose predictions by Republicans about the impact of their tax cut proposals.
Matthew Yglesias makes an important point about your letter:
So, let's first ask whether an economic growth rate, as projected, of 5.3 percent per year is, as you claim, grandiose. There are not many ambitious experiments in economic policy with which to compare it, so let's go back to the Reagan years. What was the actual average real growth rate in 1983, 1984, and 1985, following the enactment of the Reagan tax cuts in 1981? Just under 5.4 percent. That's a point of history, like it or not.
You write that no credible economic research supports economic impacts of these magnitudes. But how did Professor Friedman make his estimates? The answer is in his paper. What Professor Friedman did, was to use the standard impact assumptions and forecasting methods of the mainstream economists and institutions. For example, Professor Friedman starts with a fiscal multiplier of 1.25, and shades it down to the range of 0.8 by the mid 2020s. Is this not credible? If that's your claim, it's an indictment of the methods of (for instance) the CBO, the OMB, and the CEA.
To be sure, skepticism about standard forecasting methods is perfectly reasonable. I'm a skeptic myself. My 2014 book The End of Normal is all about problems with mainstream forecasting.
In the specific case of this paper, one can quibble with the out-year multipliers, or with the productivity assumptions, or with the presumed impact of a higher minimum wage. One can invoke the trade deficit or the exchange rate. Professor Friedman makes all of these points himself. But those issues are well within mainstream norms.
There is no magic asterisk, no strange theory involved here. And the main effect of adjusting the assumptions, which would be a perfectly reasonable thing to do, would be to curtail the growth rate after a few years not at the beginning, when it would matter most.
It is not fair or honest to claim that Professor Friedman's methods are extreme. On the contrary, with respect to forecasting method, they are largely mainstream. Nor is it fair or honest to imply that you have given Professor Friedman's paper a rigorous review. You have not.
What you have done, is to light a fire under Paul Krugman, who is now using his high perch to airily dismiss the Friedman paper as nonsense. Paul is an immensely powerful figure, and many people rely on him for careful assessments. It seems clear that he has made no such assessment in this case.
Instead, Paul relies on you to impugn an economist with far less reach, whose work is far more careful, in point of fact, than your casual dismissal of it. He and you also imply that Professor Friedman did his work for an unprofessional motive. But let me point out, in case you missed it, that Professor Friedman is a political supporter of Secretary Clinton. His motives are, on the face of it, not political. (Emphasis added - K)
For the record, in case you're curious, I'm not tied to Professor Friedman in any way. But the powerful such as Paul and yourselves should be careful where you step.
Let's turn, finally, to the serious question. What does the Friedman paper really show? The answer is quite simple, and the exercise is while not perfect almost entirely ordinary.
What the Friedman paper shows, is that under conventional assumptions, the projected impact of Senator Sanders' proposals stems from their scale and ambition. When you dare to do big things, big results should be expected. The Sanders program is big, and when you run it through a standard model, you get a big result.
That, by the way, is the lesson of the Reagan era like it or not. It is a lesson that, among today's political leaders, only Senator Sanders has learned.
Yours, (Jamie)
James K. Galbraith
Executive Director, Joint Economic Committee, 1981-2
The University of Texas at Austin Austin, TX 78712
February 18, 2016
To:
The Honorable Alan Krueger
The Honorable Austan Goolbee
The Honorable Christina Romer
The Honorable Laura D'Andrea Tyson
Dear Alan, Austan, Christina and Laura,
I was highly interested to see your letter of yesterday's date to Senator Sanders and Professor Gerald Friedman. I respond here as a former Executive Director of the Joint Economic Committee the congressional counterpart to the CEA.
You write that you have applied rigor to your analyses of economic proposals by Democrats and Republicans. On reading this sentence I looked to the bottom of the page, to find a reference or link to your rigorous review of Professor Friedman's study. I found nothing there.
You go on to state that Professor Friedman makes extreme claims that cannot be supported by the economic evidence. You object to the projection of huge beneficial impacts on growth rates, income and employment that exceed even the most grandiose predictions by Republicans about the impact of their tax cut proposals.
Matthew Yglesias makes an important point about your letter:
It's noteworthy that the former CEA chairs criticizing Friedman didn't bother to run through a detailed explanation of their problems with the paper. To them, the 5.3 percent figure was simply absurd on its face, and it was good enough for them to say so, relying on their authority to generate media coverage.
So, let's first ask whether an economic growth rate, as projected, of 5.3 percent per year is, as you claim, grandiose. There are not many ambitious experiments in economic policy with which to compare it, so let's go back to the Reagan years. What was the actual average real growth rate in 1983, 1984, and 1985, following the enactment of the Reagan tax cuts in 1981? Just under 5.4 percent. That's a point of history, like it or not.
You write that no credible economic research supports economic impacts of these magnitudes. But how did Professor Friedman make his estimates? The answer is in his paper. What Professor Friedman did, was to use the standard impact assumptions and forecasting methods of the mainstream economists and institutions. For example, Professor Friedman starts with a fiscal multiplier of 1.25, and shades it down to the range of 0.8 by the mid 2020s. Is this not credible? If that's your claim, it's an indictment of the methods of (for instance) the CBO, the OMB, and the CEA.
To be sure, skepticism about standard forecasting methods is perfectly reasonable. I'm a skeptic myself. My 2014 book The End of Normal is all about problems with mainstream forecasting.
In the specific case of this paper, one can quibble with the out-year multipliers, or with the productivity assumptions, or with the presumed impact of a higher minimum wage. One can invoke the trade deficit or the exchange rate. Professor Friedman makes all of these points himself. But those issues are well within mainstream norms.
There is no magic asterisk, no strange theory involved here. And the main effect of adjusting the assumptions, which would be a perfectly reasonable thing to do, would be to curtail the growth rate after a few years not at the beginning, when it would matter most.
It is not fair or honest to claim that Professor Friedman's methods are extreme. On the contrary, with respect to forecasting method, they are largely mainstream. Nor is it fair or honest to imply that you have given Professor Friedman's paper a rigorous review. You have not.
What you have done, is to light a fire under Paul Krugman, who is now using his high perch to airily dismiss the Friedman paper as nonsense. Paul is an immensely powerful figure, and many people rely on him for careful assessments. It seems clear that he has made no such assessment in this case.
Instead, Paul relies on you to impugn an economist with far less reach, whose work is far more careful, in point of fact, than your casual dismissal of it. He and you also imply that Professor Friedman did his work for an unprofessional motive. But let me point out, in case you missed it, that Professor Friedman is a political supporter of Secretary Clinton. His motives are, on the face of it, not political. (Emphasis added - K)
For the record, in case you're curious, I'm not tied to Professor Friedman in any way. But the powerful such as Paul and yourselves should be careful where you step.
Let's turn, finally, to the serious question. What does the Friedman paper really show? The answer is quite simple, and the exercise is while not perfect almost entirely ordinary.
What the Friedman paper shows, is that under conventional assumptions, the projected impact of Senator Sanders' proposals stems from their scale and ambition. When you dare to do big things, big results should be expected. The Sanders program is big, and when you run it through a standard model, you get a big result.
That, by the way, is the lesson of the Reagan era like it or not. It is a lesson that, among today's political leaders, only Senator Sanders has learned.
Yours, (Jamie)
James K. Galbraith
Executive Director, Joint Economic Committee, 1981-2
Integrity - what a concept, eh?
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All those that abandoned Obama for failing to magically implement their policy wishes
Chico Man
Feb 2016
#102
No magic involved. We wanted to see him actually try, not shrug his shoulders and draw lines in
GoneFishin
Feb 2016
#121
Feel you. But he was somewhat disingenuous on climate change.. allowing SoS HRC to push fracking
cleopotrick
Feb 2016
#141
It is naive to think that presidential election can have such a monumental impact.
AlbertCat
Feb 2016
#152
The Difference Between BO And Bernie Is That Bernie Actually Means What He Says...
CorporatistNation
Feb 2016
#192
free tuition, single payer, and other rainbows and unicorns are coming their way....
AlbertCat
Feb 2016
#148
It's a conspiracy! I can't tell you the amount of people involved in this... you just
boston bean
Feb 2016
#2
The corporations own the media and the hacks dance to their tune to keep their jobs. Why do you
Skwmom
Feb 2016
#4
Exactly, and handcuff is the word for it. That juicy corp. media salary
appalachiablue
Feb 2016
#128
The gravy train is long and meandering. But all the riders are making money and don't want it to
GoneFishin
Feb 2016
#125
I heard that live. It blew me away. I never imagined I would hear words of truth like that
corkhead
Feb 2016
#50
Meh, I'd say Rachel has 15, 20 million bucks and thus any financial pressure she feels is imaginary.
Bluenorthwest
Feb 2016
#17
Yes and it's very heady to be in a clique, especially one with some of the most powerful
snagglepuss
Feb 2016
#146
To this, add the notion that all presidents since late 70s have been Reaganites.
immoderate
Feb 2016
#191
Money = political influence and power. No money = no influence and no power.
onecaliberal
Feb 2016
#204
I think a lot of people think that being a citizen means more than indentured servitude. nt
kristopher
Feb 2016
#207
"progressives" - LOL Only one of those ever did much beyond run their mouth. Look
jtuck004
Feb 2016
#37
So that's your answer to questions that I laid out? "I don't give a damn" about it?
Nyan
Feb 2016
#129
Shultz' numbers were horrible. I like him but his numbers were really bad.
stevenleser
Feb 2016
#194
Randi Rhodes has felt that way about Rachel Maddow since the Air America days.
Snotcicles
Feb 2016
#126
Damn ......thinking a white, male Senator from a racially homogenous state who voted to protect
msanthrope
Feb 2016
#13
I didn't say if agreed or disagreed. I merely noted that a white, male Senator who voted to
msanthrope
Feb 2016
#52
That was my first thought. Pretty sure she's not married, though in a long term relationship.
FailureToCommunicate
Feb 2016
#62
You really have to go deeper and deeper to find something to be outraged about, don't you?
randome
Feb 2016
#15
Or she has a different opinion than you. I mean that's at least a possibility, right?
randome
Feb 2016
#29
Not for them. They need a conspiracy because they want to save face and they want to create
stevenleser
Feb 2016
#215
Its funny because if Bernie did win the nomination he would be depending on
workinclasszero
Feb 2016
#84
He'd likely have to make some promises to bring them back to any measure of enthusiasm.
MADem
Feb 2016
#157
News flash yourself: I'm not the only perturbed that a formerly progressive network features Trump
brush
Feb 2016
#180
I didn't say right winger. You did. I said she stayed when the network shifted right . . .
brush
Feb 2016
#189
Rachael says what MSNBC wants her to say. She chooses to stay with the network. Sad really.
jalan48
Feb 2016
#86
Bernie Sanders is a politician. That's his occupation. He happens to be very good at it
geek tragedy
Feb 2016
#114
There are a handful of very smart, level headed and reasonable Sanders supporters here
stevenleser
Feb 2016
#218
So now Rachel Maddow is a right wing sellout. See how toxic this has become?
greenman3610
Feb 2016
#120
some people are fueled by hate. they don't represent a significant percentage of Bernie
geek tragedy
Feb 2016
#144
Why is she still on that network though, that has shifted hard to the right . . .
brush
Feb 2016
#168
I agree that Bernie is an experienced politician. How else would an Independent social democrat
Cleita
Feb 2016
#138
So many true progressives under that Sanders bus it can't drive no more. eom
MohRokTah
Feb 2016
#151
Well, for the record I haven't actually been one of those piling on the abuse...
Flying Squirrel
Feb 2016
#196
Bernie has been calling out the corporate media lately - YES RACHEL that includes you. And why
jillan
Feb 2016
#171
Everyone is corruptible by a paycheck. Comcast doesn't want Bernie. n/t
lumberjack_jeff
Feb 2016
#174
Rachel Maddow doesn't always say nice things about hilary, to my ears. Both sides can't win 100%..
dubyadiprecession
Feb 2016
#179
So if Hillary wins does that mean those republicans decided to vote for Hillary because she will be
jillan
Feb 2016
#186
If you had told me 6 mos ago Maddow would be shilling for a third way centrist
RiverLover
Feb 2016
#216
Perhaps job security, notoriety and living inside a bubble does that to you...
MrMickeysMom
Feb 2016
#198