2016 Postmortem

Armstead

(47,803 posts)

161. No. Listen. Open things up. Stop telling people "No we can't."

Thu Feb 25, 2016, 10:50 AM

Feb 2016

It's called actual compromise. Fresh air.

If people want to sell Hillary, hey fine. Go for it. That's politics.

But disparaging the hope and enthusiasm of those who do not feel she is the best candidate by rejecting the very principles of economic liberalism and reform is bad for the General Election, the Democratic Party's future and bad for the US of A.

It's not only the young people, There are a lot of older people who are "realistic" about life who share their frustrations and hope for something better. They range from moderate liberals to more "left" progressives who have tried to keep their hope for reform alive for many years.

I've, for one, have been around the block many times and I have never felt so alienated by the Democratic Establishment than i do now. And I'm just what once would be considered a mainstream liberal.

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I'm old and jaded. I sure hate to see the enthusiasm of young people stifled instead of encouraged. [View all] Armstead Feb 2016 OP

Suppression seems to be the main theme anymore combined with divide and conquer. I don't even RKP5637 Feb 2016 #1

We Are Trying to Prevent the Election of Richard Nixon Stallion Feb 2016 #2

agreed glaeken777 Feb 2016 #35

Those three assassinations killed a spirit I can't even describe. mountain grammy Feb 2016 #80

Look at those hipsters! nt thereismore Feb 2016 #58

Here are maps of the presidential results going way back. JDPriestly Feb 2016 #90

Yes 2016 is exactly like 1968 and 1972.....and 1952 and 1864 Armstead Feb 2016 #105

No one would have beaten Nixon in 1972. JackRiddler Feb 2016 #141

By "stifling" you seem to mean "not getting THEIR candidate nominated..." brooklynite Feb 2016 #3

It's actually farleftlib Feb 2016 #5

You are incorrect that "the sum at the end of the game is zero for the one who loses." Vattel Feb 2016 #67

That's OK farleftlib Feb 2016 #77

+1 Yet, no issues with stifling young Hillary supporters. grossproffit Feb 2016 #6

Your comment would make sense if the slamming of young voters did not happen in advance of any Bluenorthwest Feb 2016 #102

No I'm experienced enough and smart enough to know the difference between... Armstead Feb 2016 #103

All those young people have to do is workinclasszero Feb 2016 #4

Maybe if the caucus wouldn't have been such chaos he would have prevailed. Amazing how they REFUSED Skwmom Feb 2016 #13

Hey I dont like the caucus style voting either workinclasszero Feb 2016 #17

Point to any instance where "chaos" kept someone who supported Sanders from voting... brooklynite Feb 2016 #54

Sure! Right here. Bubzer Feb 2016 #73

If I were a young Hillary supporter I wouldn't feel very welcome on this forum. grossproffit Feb 2016 #7

I have zero sympathy workinclasszero Feb 2016 #10

+1 I dislike all the complaining and excuses treestar Feb 2016 #60

Right workinclasszero Feb 2016 #97

With Sec Clinton's War Support tazkcmo Feb 2016 #153

Amen. VulgarPoet Feb 2016 #160

In the 3 primaries/caucuses we've had so far jeff47 Feb 2016 #11

If you were a young Hillary supporter, you would be advocating the final sale of our democracy FiveGoodMen Feb 2016 #45

Well you would certainly feel uncomfortable with me, then Trajan Feb 2016 #76

Well, now... chervilant Feb 2016 #83

There's always the Hillary Group Art_from_Ark Feb 2016 #147

I agree. Though if you give up you let them win. n/t Skwmom Feb 2016 #8

I don't think they will be stifled farleftlib Feb 2016 #9

I hope not -- But it is depressing and angering to see the attempt to do it Armstead Feb 2016 #15

Yes farleftlib Feb 2016 #21

And, hopefully, the voice will get louder. Duval Feb 2016 #85

Democratic Leaders are destroying the future of the Democratic Party Dems to Win Feb 2016 #12

Me, too. chervilant Feb 2016 #86

Are flags the same as iris's? My Mom loved them also. nt Duval Feb 2016 #89

Yes, chervilant Feb 2016 #91

seems to me that should be a two-way street DrDan Feb 2016 #14

If they are told to "Give up and support the Meh candidate of the status quo.." Armstead Feb 2016 #16

so we should give credence to threats of staying home if their candidate is not nominated? DrDan Feb 2016 #20

Yes, you should. Lizzie Poppet Feb 2016 #40

That doesn't work treestar Feb 2016 #61

If my state looks to be in play (unlikely)... Lizzie Poppet Feb 2016 #99

well then - they can stay home - its their future as well DrDan Feb 2016 #72

What?!? chervilant Feb 2016 #88

To me his attitude seems to be to look at the situation in the general election logically mythology Feb 2016 #106

"You" are not being threatened. Maedhros Feb 2016 #132

I never tell anyone to give up. lovemydog Feb 2016 #140

I think the "everyone is corrupt/ establishment except for Bernie" thing is stifling the vote. bettyellen Feb 2016 #18

What drum do you think Trump is going to beat? Skwmom Feb 2016 #25

He is beating the "we're all going to make money" drum pretty loudly, and it's working. bettyellen Feb 2016 #27

"everyone is corrupt/ establishment except for Bernie" AlbertCat Feb 2016 #53

Oh please, casting shade on Planned Parenthood, the CBC, and most every other person who has bettyellen Feb 2016 #57

and dismissing them all was stupid. AlbertCat Feb 2016 #64

Sanders did dismiss PP after they endorsed Clinton. Foolish to have sour grapes like that. bettyellen Feb 2016 #98

Bernie's observations are not unique. They are just resonating with.... Armstead Feb 2016 #108

I think a lot of people miss the nuances, and have fallen for the "all the same" crap... bettyellen Feb 2016 #118

We've had a "frame" for three decades that ignores core problems Armstead Feb 2016 #119

I agree with you there. Im still trying to figure out what Trump is playing at. Best I can think of bettyellen Feb 2016 #125

I think it's simply the ultimate fulfillment of his ego. Armstead Feb 2016 #126

I had resisted listening to anything but sound bites, and after seeing him last night.... bettyellen Feb 2016 #135

A familiar dance: 1) shit on young voters, 2) shit on their dreams, 3) bitch about their low turnout Attorney in Texas Feb 2016 #19

This is how young people see it: TheLogicalSong Feb 2016 #22

That farleftlib Feb 2016 #24

lol panader0 Feb 2016 #26

Priceless! haikugal Feb 2016 #39

+1,000,000 TIME TO PANIC Feb 2016 #43

"We'll show those whipper-snappers who to vote for!" FailureToCommunicate Feb 2016 #49

New screen saver!!! PassingFair Feb 2016 #68

That should get some kind of prize. I mean it. nt Zorra Feb 2016 #104

Priceless Armstead Feb 2016 #124

Priceless! jillan Feb 2016 #145

Right Click: Set as Desktop Background Yuugal Feb 2016 #146

I hear you, but... MaggieD Feb 2016 #23

Maggie if we all did what Bernie said and were to pressure those that are supposed bkkyosemite Feb 2016 #31

But republicans in gerrymandered districts do not agree MaggieD Feb 2016 #37

Not asking for utopia. Duval Feb 2016 #82

All Dems agree with increasing taxes on corporations MaggieD Feb 2016 #96

There are many things pivotal leaders promised but couldn't deliver on Kittycat Feb 2016 #34

Ask kids today what they think of Obama MaggieD Feb 2016 #38

Ask me what I think today Kittycat Feb 2016 #42

I like Obama a lot MaggieD Feb 2016 #44

"This is the day we stopped the rise of the oceans" PeterGM Feb 2016 #47

a bunch of stuff he can never deliver. AlbertCat Feb 2016 #56

Well so far the turnout has been less than Obama's MaggieD Feb 2016 #69

So apparently the revolution isn't that compelling. AlbertCat Feb 2016 #71

She will win MaggieD Feb 2016 #74

+1 treestar Feb 2016 #62

I think it is quite possible to encourage realism without discouraging hope Armstead Feb 2016 #110

Did you ask them what other candidates and issues they were supporting? LisaM Feb 2016 #143

That's exactly what they want. For all of us to give up and stop being enthusiastic. liberal_at_heart Feb 2016 #28

Local politics. lovemydog Feb 2016 #29

I have not given up and I did not do anything to cause the corruption, bkkyosemite Feb 2016 #30

Better than McGovern redux. But I basically agree with you. Growing up is not easy. Hoyt Feb 2016 #32

Well I feel like half a grown up and half still a punk kid Armstead Feb 2016 #121

nobody is stifling anything. JI7 Feb 2016 #33

I don't know if you saw this post but it's a good one and on topic. haikugal Feb 2016 #36

Thank you, haikugal. I'm sorry I missed that one. Enthusiast Feb 2016 #75

Hey guy!! haikugal Feb 2016 #81

Hi Enthusiast Feb 2016 #148

Yeah, what a compassionate conservative Christian..... haikugal Feb 2016 #155

Jaded now in a political revolution will turn around and bite you dr60omg Feb 2016 #41

It's Clinton's only path to victory. PeterGM Feb 2016 #46

This message was self-deleted by its author Corruption Inc Feb 2016 #100

Whereas I hate seeing people being given false hopes. Donald Ian Rankin Feb 2016 #48

perfect case in point of stifling those who have ideals and principles. bbgrunt Feb 2016 #52

You couldn't be more wrong if you tried. Enthusiast Feb 2016 #79

We've been "holding our ground since the 80's" and look what it has gotten us Armstead Feb 2016 #117

On campus today I saw more kids come over marlakay Feb 2016 #50

How is it being stifled? treestar Feb 2016 #51

Maybe We Can Give them all a Yellow Participation Ribbon Stallion Feb 2016 #55

Express and be told "No we can't" and... Armstead Feb 2016 #115

They don't have to listen to it treestar Feb 2016 #156

I can't stifle anyone. If I could I'd tell Trump to shut up and play golf. Armstead Feb 2016 #158

your description is unfair treestar Feb 2016 #159

If Reagan and the GOP could set off a Revolution why can't the Democrats? Armstead Feb 2016 #162

I'm Gen x. fuck that shit PatrynXX Feb 2016 #59

I'm an older guy probably like you . . . Gamecock Lefty Feb 2016 #63

I am not trying to be disrespectful but your definition of neoliberalism is incorrect dr60omg Feb 2016 #78

The Shock Doctrine is one of the most important books I've read mountain grammy Feb 2016 #87

Yes I know and now people can read the book for free and watch the movie for free dr60omg Feb 2016 #109

I'm a Gen X-er for Hillary. fun n serious Feb 2016 #84

Noboidy is trying to stifle. "Squash 'em like a bug." Armstead Feb 2016 #114

Take heart Rebkeh Feb 2016 #65

HUGE K & R !!! - THANK YOU !!! WillyT Feb 2016 #66

I'm in my late 60s so way back in the 60s it was actually much worse lunatica Feb 2016 #70

I agree with you so much... SoapBox Feb 2016 #92

Young Progressives Blew the 1968 Election Stallion Feb 2016 #93

1968 -- 2016 ....How many years and how many changes between them? Armstead Feb 2016 #111

Oh Democrats Who Were Perceived as Too Liberal Have Blown A Bunch More Stallion Feb 2016 #133

You don't think Clinton and Obama were perceived as liberal? Armstead Feb 2016 #134

Definitely Not Clinton Stallion Feb 2016 #138

His image was as a liberal change from the Reagan/Bush years Armstead Feb 2016 #139

Clinton Was a 5 Term Southern Governor and President of the DLC Stallion Feb 2016 #144

I don't want to see it stifled either. Which is why I am not fond of candidates pushing for things Lucinda Feb 2016 #94

We all are going to die which makes life meaningless. Nihilism is objective truth. Armstead Feb 2016 #112

Sanders wants a revolution. Goblinmonger Feb 2016 #116

What is he doing to help elect other Dems to office? The ones he will need to make changes? Lucinda Feb 2016 #120

He is going to get a fuckload of really liberal progressive youth out to vote for one. Goblinmonger Feb 2016 #122

He hasn't yet. When is that massive turnout going to start? n/t Lucinda Feb 2016 #128

Kind of a double edged sword Goblinmonger Feb 2016 #131

It will certainly be interesting to see the breakdowns over the next week. Lucinda Feb 2016 #142

Why don;t you listen to what he says? Armstead Feb 2016 #123

If he isnt even trying to help people get elected, how do you think they will work for him Lucinda Feb 2016 #127

Is Clinton getting record turnout? And Sanders got many more votes than Trump in NH Armstead Feb 2016 #129

Clinton will do fine in the GE. Thats when Dems turnout. About twice as many DEMS voted in the 08 Lucinda Feb 2016 #130

It's also important for young voters to learn that we live in a representative democracy. Trust Buster Feb 2016 #95

Yeah that'll encourage young citizens to get involved. Armstead Feb 2016 #101

They are aware: surprise! dr60omg Feb 2016 #113

What's really strange is they don't know that already treestar Feb 2016 #157

Again, Bernie is not saying he has a magic wand. Just the opposite Armstead Feb 2016 #164

I don't think his followers are getting it treestar Feb 2016 #165

That's the case with all candidates and many voters Armstead Feb 2016 #166

"Hindsight is pain, and it smarts." Jezza Feb 2016 #107

I think the mistake that many current Democrats make is to assume that there is some inherent value Maedhros Feb 2016 #136

I think you're right...My loyalty is primarily residual for what it used to stand for Armstead Feb 2016 #137

Bingo. Kentonio Feb 2016 #150

Exactly. Down here in Florida - being admonished to support the "D" no matter what, djean111 Feb 2016 #151

They may rescue us! loyalsister Feb 2016 #149

So many of these young people expect the *they* will get free college. That's why they support SBS lunamagica Feb 2016 #152

And the only way to encourage young people is to let them have their own way? brooklynite Feb 2016 #154

No. Listen. Open things up. Stop telling people "No we can't." Armstead Feb 2016 #161

Those darn Republicans stifling our enthusiasm for Bernie. Oh wait...nt MadDAsHell Feb 2016 #163