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2016 Postmortem
In reply to the discussion: Hillary advocating suing gun manufacturers for shootings is ridiculous. If a person buys a gun [View all]Lizzie Poppet
(10,164 posts)95. Gee, nice refutation of my several points. /smh
Okay, I'll just drop the practice killing stuff, since you apparently don't want to actually defend your claim...no worries. It's not like either of us is likely to relent...this is the internet, after all. So let's address that last point:
Yet you could... much more easily than me kill a person unlawfully on purpose or by accident. Your guns make the world less safe for me. So why should I risk hurt because of you?
You sure about that? My competition rifles come out of the (very good) gun safe when I'm headed out to practice or to a match. The chances of them ever posing a threat to any living thing are so remote that I have no problem whatsoever dismissing them. I don't worry about being hit by a meteor, either. The handguns are also never out of the safe unless they are on my person, or at least (in the house) within my reach, at night...I probably don't need a "home defense" pistol at all where I live now (not ground floor, locked, secure building in downtown Portland), but I already owned it, and it was a gift. It's no threat to anyone outside my house or possibly at the range if I commit some catastrophic gun safety error (damned unlikely, let me assure you).
Really the only firearm of mine an innocent person has even a minutely probable chance of being harmed by is my carry pistol....because it's actually regularly outside the gun safe, loaded, and on my person. But how high is that probability, really? While I suppose there's a chance I might shoot someone illegally, given that the worst thing on my record is a traffic citation, I passed a background check for my permit, and am a member of a group (CCW holders) with a lower rate of violent crime than average argues strongly against that. I've never had a negligent discharge (I hate the term "accidental discharge" - there's no such thing...it's negligence). So again, possible, but highly unlikely, particularly as I'm not a "gun flasher" who takes their weapon out in public unless I need to use it. And I think open carry is for idiots...
Okay, that still leaves me at a higher chance of killing a person, illegally or accidentally, since you have no guns...but let's look into other comparisons between us on that matter. How big and strong are you? I'm a 5'3", 112lb female. About the only people I'd be capable of illegally killing with my bare hands are children. And while it's occasionally tempting, I can't see that happening. What I'm not physically capable of is beating most any adult to death in a fight. How about you?
Do you drive a lot? I don't drive much at all (not a car commuter). Mostly just trips out of the city. If you drive more than I do, you have a greater chance of killing someone accidentally in that manner than I do, assuming similar driving skills (one accident in my life, other driver's fault...but I'm not any Lewis Hamilton).
Etc., if you see the point I'm trying to make. Neither of us is probably a significant threat to innocent life...certainly not to the point of worrying about it. That's true of an absolutely overwhelming majority of the 80-90 million gun owners in the US. If the overall statistical probability of harm from gun owners were anything other than very, very small, we really would have the "blood in the streets" scenario some of the more...strident...gun control advocates continually predict. If my guns - or those of those of all but a tiny fraction of one percent of all US gun owners - make the world less safe for you, it is by such an infinitesimally small amount that you'll have to excuse me if I dismiss anything more than a passing thought about it as silly.
It's that tiny fraction you (and I) have to worry about...and keeping those folk from owning guns is why I actually support a good bit of additional gun regulation.
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Hillary advocating suing gun manufacturers for shootings is ridiculous. If a person buys a gun [View all]
JRLeft
Mar 2016
OP
Precisely. This is why Secretary Clinton is on the wrong side of this issue. n/t
Stand and Fight
Mar 2016
#59
It is my opinion that a lot of gun violence will go away with improved quality of life.
JRLeft
Mar 2016
#15
You are entitled to your opinion but the notion of banning all guns is frightening to me.
AgadorSparticus
Mar 2016
#202
You are probably right. It bugs me, though and I am not even a gun owner.
AgadorSparticus
Mar 2016
#212
A lot of gun deaths are from illegal guns. States like California and Illinois have very strict
JRLeft
Mar 2016
#213
The gun laws are there to make people feel better. If someone wants a gun bad enough it's not hard
JRLeft
Mar 2016
#219
Exactly. I think addressing education, economics, mental health, gang violence
AgadorSparticus
Mar 2016
#221
It's the only thing she can cling to in a Dem debate, because she is significantly
Svafa
Mar 2016
#16
A machete is not designed to kill but as a tool for jobs like clearing brush. ...
spin
Mar 2016
#227
Hillary's campaign looks to start making a big deal out of Bernie's vote on this.
Lizzie Poppet
Mar 2016
#11
The lawsuit has no merit and she knows it. She is supporting it to score political points.
Vattel
Mar 2016
#17
She should continue to advocate this. It will go over well in many of the western states
Autumn
Mar 2016
#21
Exactly, the fact she could advocate for repeal gives me a reason not to vote for her.
JRLeft
Mar 2016
#25
Agree and though I support the 2nd amendment I do believe their are better ways to regulate guns.
Bread and Circus
Mar 2016
#33
Then put a speed governor on every car so that no one can drive more than 25 miles per hour.
Bread and Circus
Mar 2016
#30
Nobody that owns a gun for self-defense will trust a fingerprint reading gun.
krispos42
Mar 2016
#190
Guns have no other purpose besides killing animals and practice killing (ie shooting paper targets
MillennialDem
Mar 2016
#41
They will be less likely to kill others. This has been evidenced by homicide studies in
MillennialDem
Mar 2016
#46
Canadians have a lot of gun owners too and they don't have nearly the gun deaths
JRLeft
Mar 2016
#50
There are OTHER factors of course. When did I say guns were the only factor?
MillennialDem
Mar 2016
#63
Not claiming you did. Just pointing out an interesting difference in those comparative rates.
Lizzie Poppet
Mar 2016
#77
Yes guns are about practice killing. And I don't carry a gun and I've never hurt another human
MillennialDem
Mar 2016
#73
You assume I'm a believer in the law. I'm not. Guns must be destroyed for the
MillennialDem
Mar 2016
#78
The law is only a tool to enact it. I would utilize other ways if they were more practical.
MillennialDem
Mar 2016
#84
Sounds like meeting the gun nuts where they would meet us anyway, which means
MillennialDem
Mar 2016
#199
Not true, a gun's purpose for many is self defense. That is the purpose. It does this through
Bread and Circus
Mar 2016
#149
I'm amused by all of the highly progressive folks in this thread who are soft/conservative on guns.
LonePirate
Mar 2016
#32
And that is perfectly fine so long as you realize that is not the progressive stance on the issue.
LonePirate
Mar 2016
#38
So Dems should only run on positions that are popular and not what's best for America?
LonePirate
Mar 2016
#94
Hillary should stop shilling for Wall Street and actually help people. She only gives a damn about
JRLeft
Mar 2016
#109
Just to be clear: are you suggesting that "progressive" means trusting the police
jonno99
Mar 2016
#99
I think there's a difference between Democratic stance and progressive stance.
Bread and Circus
Mar 2016
#152
Handing over a monopoly on the projection of armed power to a racist oligarchy is "progressive"?
Marengo
Mar 2016
#215
So if I support Bernie on practically every issue except for guns, then I should not support him?
LonePirate
Mar 2016
#49
You found my avatar amusing in the context of me essentially saying Bernie is soft on guns.
LonePirate
Mar 2016
#66
I find what you think you are communicating amusing and that is from a holistic
Kalidurga
Mar 2016
#76
True progressives brought us a whole host of amendments: 13th, 17th, 19th, 26th, et al.
LonePirate
Mar 2016
#68
"Ending the gun industry's legal immunity is an important step in tackling the epidemic of gun
ecstatic
Mar 2016
#48
Yep - Japan has a much higher rate of suicide than the US - and WAY fewer fire-arms...nt
jonno99
Mar 2016
#123
Well lets see -- manufacturers run ads that appeal to yahoos' baser instincts, support racist
Hoyt
Mar 2016
#108
Let me know when you're in favor of banning hip-hop. Or do you support cop-killing and misogyny?
jonno99
Mar 2016
#124
But I hardly think we can wonder at how much our legal system can be opened up to lawsuits
kcr
Mar 2016
#163
Yeap, Wall Street and coporations bad ........... except for MIC corps and gun manufacturers
YCHDT
Mar 2016
#238
In the 1990s, the Commerce Department shut down the "ring of fire" gunmakers
Recursion
Mar 2016
#204
If only cigarette manufacturers convinced Republicans to pass soch a law.
Agnosticsherbet
Mar 2016
#205
It is used to protect the profits of large corporations who make a living over dead innocents.
Agnosticsherbet
Mar 2016
#220
Really, homie I'm from Oakland, CA my city and state has strict gun laws, last year my friend
JRLeft
Mar 2016
#232
Her whole campaign is based on two or three Sanders votes over a thirty year period.
AgingAmerican
Mar 2016
#224
I'm torn on the issue. While I don't feel the gun manufacturers are at fault.
raouldukelives
Mar 2016
#229
The whole thing is about giving an entire industry blanket immunity.
DemocratSinceBirth
Mar 2016
#233