2016 Postmortem

Dynamite Dave

(26 posts)

45. Whatever you think.

Mon Mar 21, 2016, 11:47 AM

Mar 2016

Your type of thinking is completely wrong. They neither gain or lose any votes if a voter simply decides to sit it out.

Here's your problem:

Over 40% of Americans are Independent (and it's growing rapidly)

29% of Americans identify themselves as Dems

26% of the Americans identify themselves as Reps

If no independents (Clinton currently has 5-6% of the independent support for the purpose of discussion 10%) and let's say a 1/3 of the Dems don't want her as a candidate, Clinton is guaranteed to lose in the GE.

Bernie, on the other hand, has the 1/3 of the Dem support, 90% Independent support , even 10% of the Republican support, he wins the GE. Easily.

See where I'm getting at? Even if I don't lend my vote for Clinton, she doesn't win anyway because of the lack of crossover appeal, which is key.

Edit history

Please sign in to view edit histories.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

263 replies

= new reply since forum marked as read

Highlight:

The Bernie or Bust blackmail is not going to work. [View all] DanTex Mar 2016 OP

I wouldn't call it blackmail NWCorona Mar 2016 #1

I dont think you understand- Support for Bernie is STRONGER Baobab Mar 2016 #119

Exactly nt Rebkeh Mar 2016 #133

or some "shenanigans" at the polls Merryland Mar 2016 #156

"Support for Bernie is STRONGER" by what measure? Yavin4 Mar 2016 #164

Zealotry strength. Hortensis Mar 2016 #257

Democrats would be insane to nominate Sanders Gothmog Mar 2016 #167

Sanders platform definitely ignores the last 20 years of neoliberalism, but that means its closer to Baobab Mar 2016 #192

I think he's clearly the best candidate we've had in decades Baobab Mar 2016 #195

Bernie or Bust isn't a tactic, it's a narcissistic temper tantrum nt geek tragedy Mar 2016 #2

+1 Xipe Totec Mar 2016 #3

"the best democrat you can get" will be the one that is nominated. bullimiami Mar 2016 #4

I disagree. Beowulf Mar 2016 #81

.+10 840high Mar 2016 #111

Go for it. nt Xipe Totec Mar 2016 #183

I agree, she is not a uniter. highoverheadspace Mar 2016 #193

+1000 n/t cosmicone Mar 2016 #20

Do you know what narcissistic personality disorder is? Baobab Mar 2016 #121

Zealotry in all forms is always destructive. Loki Mar 2016 #163

Then why are you supporting a chameleon? ThePhilosopher04 Mar 2016 #235

Why do you support someone who voted against the Amber Alert Bill? Loki Mar 2016 #237

And voting for Hillary is insanity coyote Mar 2016 #243

Just support people in voting their conscience/ aikoaiko Mar 2016 #5

If their consciences tell them to help elect Trump, I'm sorry, I can't support that. DanTex Mar 2016 #8

0 + 0 = 0 revbones Mar 2016 #10

Not voting for Hillary is equivalent to a half-vote for Trump. DanTex Mar 2016 #12

No, it isn't half a vote for Trump. It's the lack of a vote for Hillary. Nothing more, nothing less. cherokeeprogressive Mar 2016 #16

Mathematically, it's equivalent to half of a vote for Trump. Doing that is facilitating a Trump DanTex Mar 2016 #18

Math! Dynamite Dave Mar 2016 #37

One of two things will happen next fall, either a D or an R. DanTex Mar 2016 #40

Whatever you think. Dynamite Dave Mar 2016 #45

Mathematically, my thinking is correct. This is a winner-take-all two party DanTex Mar 2016 #57

No I am not. You are not to assign blame on us Sanders voters Dynamite Dave Mar 2016 #65

We'll have to see the outcome before any blame is assigned. In 2000, there is no doubt DanTex Mar 2016 #67

Nah, going by what you wrote, all those indenpendents who don't vote for Clinton would . . . brush Mar 2016 #66

If you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem. CajunBlazer Mar 2016 #132

Regardless of which candidate you support, this is true. For instance if Bernie were to be the Jackie Wilson Said Mar 2016 #51

Absolutely. If Bernie were the nominee and there was a Hillary or Bust movement, DanTex Mar 2016 #54

Right, and that is how liberals are. I know a liberal who hates Hillary so much Jackie Wilson Said Mar 2016 #61

Most if not all Clinton supporters will support the nominee of the party Gothmog Mar 2016 #169

Absolutely. The voting machine does NOT tabulate. . . DinahMoeHum Mar 2016 #39

why would you vote FOR someone who has no chance of winning and... CajunBlazer Mar 2016 #136

Better ask the political purity princesses that question. DinahMoeHum Mar 2016 #184

Definitely not me! CajunBlazer Mar 2016 #185

Which is quite a lot if millions of Sanders supporters carry through with not voting brush Mar 2016 #58

If all of them did that, it would be a problem. Thankfully most Sanders supporters aren't idiots. PeaceNikki Mar 2016 #63

you can justify it however you like.... Adrahil Mar 2016 #101

Wow, you might want to catch your breath after all those contortions. revbones Mar 2016 #26

Well, the math is on my side. There are two outcomes, and not voting for the D is DanTex Mar 2016 #78

Not sure about your definition of math there. revbones Mar 2016 #80

So, are you saying that no one is running for president? kcr Mar 2016 #197

I'm saying that not voting for someone is not the same as voting for the other person. revbones Mar 2016 #208

No, its a vote for another candidate. basselope Mar 2016 #74

Third party candidates have no chance of winning. They can only be spoilers. DanTex Mar 2016 #79

No, its only a vote for Trump if I vote for Trump. basselope Mar 2016 #97

It's effectively a half vote for Trump if you vote third party. DanTex Mar 2016 #103

No. basselope Mar 2016 #106

the lesser of two evils is still evil. Merryland Mar 2016 #162

I've heard it called "The evil of two lessers" basselope Mar 2016 #177

That is the Democratic Party's choice. Baobab Mar 2016 #194

Why would you vote for some third party candidate who has no chance of winning and... CajunBlazer Mar 2016 #146

Why would I vote a candidate... basselope Mar 2016 #176

So the definition of having ideals and principles is to have no brain? CajunBlazer Mar 2016 #182

So the definition of having no brain is to have ideals? basselope Mar 2016 #199

Not voting for Hillary is not voting for Hillary. A vote for Trump is a vote for Trump. ThePhilosopher04 Mar 2016 #118

I firmly believe... dchill Mar 2016 #32

I see this all the time.. one_voice Mar 2016 #216

Yes. revbones Mar 2016 #217

that's not what I said.. one_voice Mar 2016 #219

You said revbones Mar 2016 #220

Here: one_voice Mar 2016 #222

I think if you have to ask voters to vote against their consciences for HRC to win in the GE... aikoaiko Mar 2016 #11

I think there is a fundamental problem with people whose consciences tell them that DanTex Mar 2016 #13

Agreed. LGBT rights, equal pay, healthcare and abortion rights are fucking toast PeaceNikki Mar 2016 #14

Because it's never your candidate's fault, right? VulgarPoet Mar 2016 #244

You don't have to. People are going to vote the way they want to and they I suppose bkkyosemite Mar 2016 #107

There's zero difference between Trump and Hillary. They are best of friends. Everybody knows this. ThePhilosopher04 Mar 2016 #236

When the left sits it out, everybody else moves to the right. MohRokTah Mar 2016 #6

You don't want us lefties to sit out? Fine. All we ask is that you vote for Bernie. Dynamite Dave Mar 2016 #38

Not happening. MohRokTah Mar 2016 #53

Very well, then you are not a Democrat by that definition Dynamite Dave Mar 2016 #59

I am the very definition of a Democrat MohRokTah Mar 2016 #62

So you are acknowledging that Clinton has no principles or moral center Armstead Mar 2016 #122

No, I am not acknowleding anything of the sort. MohRokTah Mar 2016 #130

No if she had any beliefs, she'd make concessions and amplify those beliefs to win over voters Armstead Mar 2016 #135

She is not beholden to voters who hold their vote hostage. MohRokTah Mar 2016 #140

It's not the hardcore Bernie or Bust people she has to worry about Armstead Mar 2016 #142

ALL Presidential candidates move to the center in the GE. MohRokTah Mar 2016 #175

Pssst ..... Lil Missy Mar 2016 #196

Blackmail: If you don't vote for Hillary you will get Trump!! Tierra_y_Libertad Mar 2016 #7

Nope. eom. Rebkeh Mar 2016 #134

I guess the damning women to hell if they didn't vote for her isn't working? VulgarPoet Mar 2016 #245

Yup. Privileged, arrogant, selfish, narcissistic and fucking stupid. PeaceNikki Mar 2016 #9

Yes, yes, yes! Exactly my feelings too. brush Mar 2016 #69

It might help if people would stop acting like the primary is over Armstead Mar 2016 #123

I am not acting like the primary is over. Go lecture someone who is if that bugs you. PeaceNikki Mar 2016 #127

+1 uponit7771 Mar 2016 #179

I think the Bernie or Bust tactic is done here by gop trolls and green party voters. hrmjustin Mar 2016 #15

Same here! I know several Bernie supporters in real life, and NONE of them ... NurseJackie Mar 2016 #21

Well get working on the GE then! Why are you wasting your time with BoB people? JimDandy Mar 2016 #161

I think many of the Bernie or Bust people here Dynamite Dave Mar 2016 #41

With due respect you just got here so you are not in a position to make that judgment. hrmjustin Mar 2016 #44

Yes, Bernie is still my candidate Dynamite Dave Mar 2016 #49

Of course. hrmjustin Mar 2016 #50

Anybody pushing it sure as shit isn't a Democrat MohRokTah Mar 2016 #55

Yep! A lot of trolls trying to get Democrats not to vote Democratic. hrmjustin Mar 2016 #71

Actually it was the obnoxious Hillary supporters that convinced me... Human101948 Mar 2016 #100

And that means what? hrmjustin Mar 2016 #109

This crap post isn't going to work either whatchamacallit Mar 2016 #17

You have the right to vote for whoever you want, I'm not denying that. DanTex Mar 2016 #19

0 + 0 = 0 revbones Mar 2016 #23

You're wrong, as I've already pointed out. DanTex Mar 2016 #25

You're wrong as the math obviously shows. nt revbones Mar 2016 #27

The math is simple. Voting third party directs half as many net votes to the GOP DanTex Mar 2016 #28

0 + 0 still equals 0 revbones Mar 2016 #31

Sure, but that's a meaningless equation. I could also say 5+5=10. DanTex Mar 2016 #34

It's like this PeaceNikki Mar 2016 #36

I think the discrepancy comes from counting non-votes as if they were votes. Buns_of_Fire Mar 2016 #187

A non-vote is still a decision. DanTex Mar 2016 #188

That it is. My only point is that, statistically, non-votes don't usually count one way or the other Buns_of_Fire Mar 2016 #198

Right, it only has an effect of (-1 or -0.5) if you are typically a (D) voter. PeaceNikki Mar 2016 #29

Again, you're just making false assumptions revbones Mar 2016 #33

lolok. Justify the selfishness any way that you like. PeaceNikki Mar 2016 #35

Stomp your feet, call people names or insult them as being selfish all you want. revbones Mar 2016 #42

lolok PeaceNikki Mar 2016 #46

AFAIC supporting HRC is an extremely careless and selfish act whatchamacallit Mar 2016 #94

And if millions of BS supporters do what you suggest, there will be millions fewer votes for . . . brush Mar 2016 #75

Wow. Such willful ignorance of math is rather stunning. revbones Mar 2016 #77

It gives the Dem candidate millions of fewer votes. brush Mar 2016 #84

You make false assumptions revbones Mar 2016 #90

Ahhh . . . she's earning way more votes than Sanders in the primary process brush Mar 2016 #102

If you're concerned about Democrats not voting for Hillary revbones Mar 2016 #112

You keep twisting yourself into pretzels with the 0+0=0 formula but in actuality . . . brush Mar 2016 #141

That's absurd. revbones Mar 2016 #143

Keep twisting that dough. Trump and the repugs are quite appreciative. brush Mar 2016 #153

Whatever. revbones Mar 2016 #155

Bernie joined the party 8 months ago. He should have joined years ago and he would have gotten . . . brush Mar 2016 #168

If you're so caught up on when a person had a "D" behind their name revbones Mar 2016 #170

Don't feel sorry for me, feel sorry for Bernie as that (I) for so many years obviously hampered . . brush Mar 2016 #171

I'm proud he was an Independent revbones Mar 2016 #172

Why do you feel sorry for me? I had nothing to do with Bernie not having made the switch . . . brush Mar 2016 #174

I feel sorry for neither of you, and I have an engineering degree with a major in math.. CajunBlazer Mar 2016 #189

Oooh. Citing degrees. Too bad I'm an engineer as well. revbones Mar 2016 #190

WEAK. If you are an engineer you probably think logically CajunBlazer Mar 2016 #191

Sure, if you think saying "weak" helps your logic. revbones Mar 2016 #209

Sorry I was wrong, you don't think logically afterall. CajunBlazer Mar 2016 #224

Insulting others doesn't help your argument. revbones Mar 2016 #225

Let's talk about disingenious shall we CajunBlazer Mar 2016 #229

Ok. revbones Mar 2016 #231

Dan - If You Want To Vote - For A Member Of The 1% - A War Hawk - And A Corporatist - Go Ahead cantbeserious Mar 2016 #226

Yep +1 840high Mar 2016 #113

Since HRC is the "best candidate" Kelvin Mace Mar 2016 #22

^^ Exactly right ^^ nt revbones Mar 2016 #24

Agreed atomingai Mar 2016 #30

So what's to be said about the candidate who can't win the primary? brush Mar 2016 #105

Primaries and generals are two different things Kelvin Mace Mar 2016 #120

Yeah, but if you can't win the primary, you can't get to the general brush Mar 2016 #148

Bernie caucsed with the Dems for decades Kelvin Mace Mar 2016 #152

Caucusing with the dems with an (I) next to your name and being a self-avowed socialist . . . brush Mar 2016 #157

Well, I read the whoooooole post, aaaannnnnddddd........(drum roll please) Karma13612 Mar 2016 #200

Just to check, Kelvin Mace Mar 2016 #218

Threatening Bernie supporters with loyalty oaths doesn't work either. hobbit709 Mar 2016 #43

This is a silly OP, imho. sadoldgirl Mar 2016 #47

Par for the course. HooptieWagon Mar 2016 #52

One way loyalty oaths, what a winner Mnpaul Mar 2016 #207

I'm neither a millennial nor an Indy Merryland Mar 2016 #159

They can vote or not as they choose The Second Stone Mar 2016 #48

"Bernie or Bust" isn't going to work because "Bernie or Bust" doesn't exist brooklynite Mar 2016 #56

I've heard from many Hillary supporters Bjornsdotter Mar 2016 #60

The Bernie or Bust movement seems to be very popular on DU, judging from the number of DanTex Mar 2016 #64

No, yours is the OP Bjornsdotter Mar 2016 #68

Yes, it is an OP written in response to all the Bernie or Bust posts I've been seeing. DanTex Mar 2016 #70

Why start Bjornsdotter Mar 2016 #72

I felt like the idea was prevalent enough that it warranted its own OP. DanTex Mar 2016 #76

Still not voting for Clinton. basselope Mar 2016 #73

so you must be staying home or leaving it blank. Selfish iMHO riversedge Mar 2016 #86

No, voting 3rd party. basselope Mar 2016 #99

Voting for 3rd party when you say you are a Democrat is selfish-esp when the SC riversedge Mar 2016 #126

When did I say I was a democrat???? basselope Mar 2016 #178

Truly sorry. Have a good day riversedge Mar 2016 #181

Blah blah blah matt819 Mar 2016 #82

First, people don't like being blackmailed. Kalidurga Mar 2016 #83

This message was self-deleted by its author highprincipleswork Mar 2016 #87

How do you read this thread as blackmail? I'm simply pointing out that as a strategy for DanTex Mar 2016 #88

If you don't see it I can't explain it. It's rather like describing color to the blind. Kalidurga Mar 2016 #91

You can't explain it, so you attack me personally. DanTex Mar 2016 #93

You think that is an attack after you call Sander's supporters bullies? Kalidurga Mar 2016 #98

Umm, I didn't call Sanders' supporters bullies. I said that Bernie or Busters (which is a small DanTex Mar 2016 #104

It is not blackmail to refuse to vote for a candidate whose values you find repugnant. Kalidurga Mar 2016 #108

You mean versus the Clinton versus Trump blackmail??? highprincipleswork Mar 2016 #85

I have seen no evidence that the smart folks in power are actually smart. Kalidurga Mar 2016 #89

I don't understand what you mean by "Clinton versus Trump blackmail." DanTex Mar 2016 #92

What I mean is the arrogant assumption that people have no other choice... highprincipleswork Mar 2016 #110

It's not arrogance, it's reality. We have a winner-take-all two-party system. DanTex Mar 2016 #115

I agree on the parliamentary representation and much of what you say. And yet... highprincipleswork Mar 2016 #138

Whether I see anything wrong with what Hillary does or represents is irrelevant. DanTex Mar 2016 #147

Well, good luck to that, good luck to you, good luck to the "Democratic" Party... highprincipleswork Mar 2016 #149

They can have the title "Democrat" then. VulgarPoet Mar 2016 #246

Agree. I vote for the canidate whose interests most closely mirror my own. Katashi_itto Mar 2016 #95

Of course not MaggieD Mar 2016 #96

Bernie or bust is crazy. longship Mar 2016 #114

It's not about "pushing the party to the left." It's about pushing America to the left. If Democrats ThePhilosopher04 Mar 2016 #116

And Bernie or Bust is not going to push the country left. President Trump is not going to DanTex Mar 2016 #117

If you don't want President Trump, you need to get on board the Bernie Bus. He's our only hope. ThePhilosopher04 Mar 2016 #233

Bingo Armstead Mar 2016 #125

I'm not a Clinton supporter, still hope for a Bernie miracle, and am tired of forjusticethunders Mar 2016 #124

I won't flame you for that, I think that's completely logical. DanTex Mar 2016 #129

Meh. If it's so insignificant, just ignore it. Armstead Mar 2016 #128

Okay, let's clarify where you clearly don't understand Rebkeh Mar 2016 #131

The Bernie or bust threats will not work Gothmog Mar 2016 #137

If they don't work, the consequences will not be on them Rebkeh Mar 2016 #144

Why would you vote for someone who has no chance of winning and... CajunBlazer Mar 2016 #139

He has a chance of winning Rebkeh Mar 2016 #145

We aren't talking about Bernie here - it's a given he is going to lose CajunBlazer Mar 2016 #150

No, it is about Bernie Rebkeh Mar 2016 #173

We'll see how long you can continue to live in your dream world, and... CajunBlazer Mar 2016 #180

Sheeeeit, There are so many Republicans that will be voting for Clinton this election, seabeyond Mar 2016 #151

Still with Sanders Kittycat Mar 2016 #154

Neither is the "You have to vote for Hillary or Trump will be president" blackmail Doctor_J Mar 2016 #158

That's not blackmail, it's reality. We have a winner take all two party system. DanTex Mar 2016 #160

If we have a President Trump, you'll only have yourself to blame. You have a choice ThePhilosopher04 Mar 2016 #234

So what? Do you think that fear will work better? notadmblnd Mar 2016 #165

He is a fool who does not fear what should be feared. CajunBlazer Mar 2016 #186

Cowards live in fear. notadmblnd Mar 2016 #215

So brave man, why don't you tell us why we have nothing to fear... CajunBlazer Mar 2016 #223

I said cowards live in fear. notadmblnd Mar 2016 #241

If people refuse to vote for Clinton the prefer what Republicans will give them. Agnosticsherbet Mar 2016 #166

But Clinton2 will be just as republican as Clinton1 was, so how is this helping your family? RiverLover Mar 2016 #238

If you believe Naderite crap, then you will be happy with what the Republicans give you. Agnosticsherbet Mar 2016 #242

Lesser evil is still evil. RiverLover Mar 2016 #248

Lol EdwardBernays Mar 2016 #201

It's a good thing you are neither an undocumented immigrant, nor a woman in a red state DanTex Mar 2016 #202

fear fear fear fear fear EdwardBernays Mar 2016 #204

You seem to be pretty fearful yourself, of things like NAFTA and TPP. DanTex Mar 2016 #205

it's exceedingly simple EdwardBernays Mar 2016 #206

Well, if you won't vote for the Democratic nominee, you are not a progressive. DanTex Mar 2016 #210

Total BS EdwardBernays Mar 2016 #211

None of that matters if you're willing to sit by and let Trump become president. DanTex Mar 2016 #212

Total BS EdwardBernays Mar 2016 #213

I don't care about "thiae people"? Did you mean Thai people? Umm, whaaa? DanTex Mar 2016 #214

This is what the BernieOrBust followers are doing. riversedge Mar 2016 #203

LOL, Dan being Dan. nt Logical Mar 2016 #221

It's no blackmail AgerolanAmerican Mar 2016 #227

This post misrepresents the situation greatly revbones Mar 2016 #228

The test of leadership will occur soon, the ability of the candidates to lead their supporters Thinkingabout Mar 2016 #230

Of course it's not going to work. griffi94 Mar 2016 #232

Then why do we see these same threads that we must vote for Hillary or the "Bernie Or Bust" won't Katashi_itto Mar 2016 #239

The same reason for the multiple posts griffi94 Mar 2016 #240

Well thats great then right for you types. Plus if she a shoe in she certainly dosent need my vote Katashi_itto Mar 2016 #247

How you vote is up to you griffi94 Mar 2016 #249

Then why worry about what I say? Katashi_itto Mar 2016 #251

You replied to my post griffi94 Mar 2016 #252

Just the people that view Hillary as a corupt corporative operative who see her presidency as a slow Katashi_itto Mar 2016 #253

So far the majority of primary voters griffi94 Mar 2016 #254

A McDonalds hambeger is the is the most popular burger too Katashi_itto Mar 2016 #256

Politics is like that griffi94 Mar 2016 #258

That doesn't mean I will vote for Hillary in the slightest. After all, if more people want Trump as Katashi_itto Mar 2016 #259

As I said earlier your vote is yours griffi94 Mar 2016 #260

How long has Trump been building his? A couple of Months? Katashi_itto Mar 2016 #261

Trump isn't a democrat griffi94 Mar 2016 #262

Neither is Hillary Katashi_itto Mar 2016 #263

This message was self-deleted by its author shadowandblossom Mar 2016 #250

That threat makes them ... NurseJackie Mar 2016 #255