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2016 Postmortem
In reply to the discussion: Hey DNC, we are big enough to be a third party... [View all]pinebox
(5,761 posts)241. Quit denying reality
Hillary has awful judgement. All it takes is one single Google or YouTube search. From Iraq to Saudi weapon deals to emails to running 3am racist ads against Obama to Honduras to Syria. You can push your agenda all you want for the 1% and the corporate candidate that Hillary is and bring up stuff which is downright hilarious but it doesn't change the fact of the things below.
So let's debunk you right this second.
Gun control.
Are you aware that Hillary flip flopped on the issue and ran to the right of Obama on the issue and catered to the NRA and it's voters? Of course you aren't. And while you sit here and praise your candidate and slam Bernie, your candidate is holding fundraisers with NRA lobbyists https://theintercept.com/2016/03/01/nra-lobbyist-will-co-host-clinton-fundraiser/ So please don't give us that shit about gun control.




Are you aware that Hillary flip flopped on the issue and ran to the right of Obama on the issue and catered to the NRA and it's voters? Of course you aren't. And while you sit here and praise your candidate and slam Bernie, your candidate is holding fundraisers with NRA lobbyists https://theintercept.com/2016/03/01/nra-lobbyist-will-co-host-clinton-fundraiser/ So please don't give us that shit about gun control.




Bailout.
Can you tell us please what exactly you are talking about because your talking point here has been debunked a million times. Keep up! http://www.vpr.net/news_detail/83206/leahy-sanders-reluctantly-support-auto-industry-re/
Clinton and Sanders were both in the Senate at the time, and contrary to what Clinton implied Sunday, both supported the idea of an auto bailout.
Sanders argued that letting the auto industry go under was too big of a risk for middle-class workers -- it could lower wages across all sectors of the economy and have a ripple effect on states like Vermont that were fairly far removed from the auto industry. He was quoted by Vermont Public Radio at the time as saying:
The problem is if you don't act in the midst of a growing recession, what does it mean to create a situation where millions of more people become unemployed? And that could spread, and I have serious concerns about that. I think it would be a terrible idea to add millions more to the unemployment rolls.
But Sanders was vehemently against the larger $700 billion bailout to prop up the banks. (As evidenced by his presidential campaign, Sanders is no fan of Wall Street.) So he voted against the bank bailout.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/03/07/the-hillary-clinton-bernie-sanders-debate-over-the-auto-bailout-explained/
Clinton and Sanders were both in the Senate at the time, and contrary to what Clinton implied Sunday, both supported the idea of an auto bailout.
Sanders argued that letting the auto industry go under was too big of a risk for middle-class workers -- it could lower wages across all sectors of the economy and have a ripple effect on states like Vermont that were fairly far removed from the auto industry. He was quoted by Vermont Public Radio at the time as saying:
The problem is if you don't act in the midst of a growing recession, what does it mean to create a situation where millions of more people become unemployed? And that could spread, and I have serious concerns about that. I think it would be a terrible idea to add millions more to the unemployment rolls.
But Sanders was vehemently against the larger $700 billion bailout to prop up the banks. (As evidenced by his presidential campaign, Sanders is no fan of Wall Street.) So he voted against the bank bailout.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/03/07/the-hillary-clinton-bernie-sanders-debate-over-the-auto-bailout-explained/
Crime bill.
You mean that very crime bill that Bill Clinton passed and Hillary paraded around like a piece of meat in front if Lion's in the Serengeti? Ohhhhhh that crime bill!
Hillary Clinton and the Tragic Politics of Crime
The criminal-justice policies she now denounces once helped her husband capture the White House.
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/05/the-tragic-politics-of-crime/392114/
To those who see Hillarys new crime agenda as a flip-flop, her campaign has a rejoinder: Different policies make sense at different times. As Clinton spokesperson Jesse Ferguson tweeted, HRC policy on internet might also be different than WJC policy in 1994. Not b/c he was wrong but b/c times change.
The problem with this argument is that many of the crime policies the Clintons supported in the 1990s were probably wrong even back then. Yes, the crime bill did some good: It put more cops on the street and increased penalties for sex crimes. But it also helped spawn the very era of mass incarceration that Hillary now denounces. Its not just that the bill allocated almost $10 billion in federal-prison construction money. It only allocated it to states that adopted truth-in-sentencing laws that dramatically increased the amount of time criminals served. As NYU Law Schools Brennan Center has noted, the number of states with such laws rose from five when the bill was signed to 29 by Clintons last year in office. Over the course of Clintons presidency, the number of Americans in prison rose almost 60 percent.
Hillary Clinton and the Tragic Politics of Crime
The criminal-justice policies she now denounces once helped her husband capture the White House.
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/05/the-tragic-politics-of-crime/392114/
To those who see Hillarys new crime agenda as a flip-flop, her campaign has a rejoinder: Different policies make sense at different times. As Clinton spokesperson Jesse Ferguson tweeted, HRC policy on internet might also be different than WJC policy in 1994. Not b/c he was wrong but b/c times change.
The problem with this argument is that many of the crime policies the Clintons supported in the 1990s were probably wrong even back then. Yes, the crime bill did some good: It put more cops on the street and increased penalties for sex crimes. But it also helped spawn the very era of mass incarceration that Hillary now denounces. Its not just that the bill allocated almost $10 billion in federal-prison construction money. It only allocated it to states that adopted truth-in-sentencing laws that dramatically increased the amount of time criminals served. As NYU Law Schools Brennan Center has noted, the number of states with such laws rose from five when the bill was signed to 29 by Clintons last year in office. Over the course of Clintons presidency, the number of Americans in prison rose almost 60 percent.
I can write you out a laundry list of how Hillary has bad judgement.
You say Bernie is out of his league but tell us, who's currently under 2 investigations? WHo doesn't support a living wage? Who acts like a Neocon at AIPAC when they give us speeches? Who think the Reagan's were awesome in AIDS research and who was against DOMA and supported KXL, TPP, DADT and who has sold fracking around the world and supported arctic drilling?
Nope that wasn't Bernie. That was your candidate, Hillary.
It is what it is and you can't defend it other than "It's Hillary's turn!"
You're being made a mark and manipulated. Wake up.

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No Sanders is not that popular: He appeals to be people that want free college!
lewebley3
Mar 2016
#16
Yes, and the Clinton's did deliver on all helping people colleges: pell grants etc
lewebley3
Mar 2016
#271
You need to go the lib: and look up the Clinton budgets they helped the middle class:
lewebley3
Mar 2016
#282
And what kind of dickhead would deny them this simple wish? I mean, besides Republicans?
DisgustipatedinCA
Apr 2016
#287
Its not a simple wish at all: that is why Sanders is a fraud: He is an empty suit
lewebley3
Apr 2016
#292
You really have no idea what you are talking about. Nobody says free, because
Jackie Wilson Said
Apr 2016
#302
Wolf Bitzer; Quoted Sanders at the Debate: he promised everyone free college
lewebley3
Apr 2016
#307
NO, tuition free which means it is paid for thru taxes like other civilized nations.
Jackie Wilson Said
Apr 2016
#308
Spelling actually does count in posts about higher education. I'm standing by that one.
DisgustipatedinCA
Apr 2016
#288
The "free stuff" right wing meme lives on here at DU. Thanks for dumping on college students.
think
Mar 2016
#60
Free? You mean like the protection mega corporations get from the US military all around the world?
think
Mar 2016
#197
Yes. And over 8% of vets are currently homeless. We don't do enough for our vets. If we're willing
think
Mar 2016
#206
IT IS NOT FREE. WE VETS GAVE UP LIFE, LIMB AND OUR TIME TO SERVE. IT WAS NEVER FREE.
Katashi_itto
Mar 2016
#232
You made no points civilian. Your time for service in exchange of for college is in essence barter.
Katashi_itto
Mar 2016
#269
Would it burst your bubble if I said I have $0 college debt and yet want Sander's tuition-free
JonLeibowitz
Mar 2016
#67
Yep. I actually never had college debt so as a millenial "bernie bro" I throw a real wrench
JonLeibowitz
Mar 2016
#152
Me too. It's a Republican right wing philosophy to think that everything in life should be
GoneFishin
Mar 2016
#216
They always, and I mean fucking always have more money for weapons, but they make up
GoneFishin
Mar 2016
#217
Where do you live? I lived all my life in CA and our public colleges and Universities were free!
bkkyosemite
Mar 2016
#82
Oh, you mean free college like we had before and like many advanced nations have?
pdsimdars
Mar 2016
#74
Yes, we understand how taxes work. We're saying free at the time of study.
JonLeibowitz
Mar 2016
#153
Sanders has received more votes from voters under 30 than Clinton and Trump combined.
obamneycare
Mar 2016
#81
No, it is not a hallmark of Clinton's: Its only a hallmark to left wing tea baggers:
lewebley3
Mar 2016
#285
Obama worked for deal that was best for the counrty: Obama won somethings too!
lewebley3
Mar 2016
#264
No, likes debt: but Sanders making false promises that he cannot deliver of free college:
lewebley3
Apr 2016
#295
Doesn't matter, you spout off RW talking points. Maybe you "evolved" like Hillary.
pinebox
Mar 2016
#256
Got any more Freeper talking points for us? How much more WAR and CLIMATE CHANGE do you want
Lorien
Mar 2016
#166
The Democrats helped put him where he is today. They may as well own it out right.
TalkingDog
Mar 2016
#71
Keep in mind there are also a lot of people trying decide BETWEEN Bernie and Trump.
basselope
Mar 2016
#165
They obviously need new members...your membership would be welcome, I'm sure.
Surya Gayatri
Mar 2016
#50
Social Democrats, Democrats, Republicans, Conservative Republicans (Trump's camp?)
blueintelligentsia
Mar 2016
#176
Wrong: Dem party is getting strong: and more liberal things are going to get done
lewebley3
Mar 2016
#22
Also, I wasn't claiming to be looking for "political discourse" in that comment,
revbones
Mar 2016
#122
Yeah, learned my lesson about responding to posts that aren't worth more than that... nt
revbones
Mar 2016
#148
No, they have not shot themselves in the foot: Only Sanders people think that nonsense
lewebley3
Mar 2016
#284
Same to you and your party of aging, increasingly out of touch, zombies
whatchamacallit
Mar 2016
#20
Fortunately, for the DU splinter group, an alternate infrastructure is ALREADY in existence...
Surya Gayatri
Mar 2016
#91
I think we will see that, in my lifetime. Nature abhors a vacuum, a vacuum has been created
Autumn
Mar 2016
#18
Bernie poll-tested all his platforms, to make sure they were popular among Millennials.
CalvinballPro
Mar 2016
#73
Jill Stein is better than Bernie and she can't get any traction. Even Bernie knew he needed to run
seaglass
Mar 2016
#75
Hillary is losing up to 85% of all millenials, the dnc, thirdwayers etc, are all but fking dead.
litlbilly
Mar 2016
#188
And the fact that none of the Hill Shills can or wont see that is just amazing to me.
litlbilly
Mar 2016
#189
That is too bad. It appears they aren't voting in big numbers. That doesn't bode well
seaglass
Mar 2016
#200
really? look at all the caucus states. they are showing up in record numbers.
litlbilly
Mar 2016
#203
Now, if only you can figure out how to get to the polls, we might be afraid
brooklynite
Mar 2016
#78
It will be a coalition of the entire left, in solidarity with Greens and other progressive parties
Zorra
Mar 2016
#116
If they can't get that site off the ground ... I don't see much hope for their new party.
JoePhilly
Mar 2016
#104
Just send money! They can use Bernie's data bases to find their donors...! LOL!
Surya Gayatri
Mar 2016
#109
Well, if memory serves, JPR was meant to do that after the Sanders campaign.
VulgarPoet
Mar 2016
#237
I don't think JPR = the progressive movement inside the democratic party
HereSince1628
Mar 2016
#238
Do not do this if you live in a state that has closed primaries. Indies can't vote in primaries.
jillan
Mar 2016
#170
You can blame the DNC & party elites & the media for pushing a purchased corporate Dem on US. /nt
RiverLover
Mar 2016
#223
So, The Revolution (™) is going to run the entire Government with Bernie Sanders?
brooklynite
Mar 2016
#227
Ok this post yesterday got me thinking about something I remembered reading about the New Deal.
vintx
Mar 2016
#228
The Democratic Party stopped representing its former political base long ago
AZ Progressive
Mar 2016
#245
They don't care. They don't need liberal retards. They'll rely on 'sane' republicans to vote for her
haikugal
Mar 2016
#276
I support Bernie Sanders. If he loses the nomination and goes third party, I will turn my back on...
marble falls
Apr 2016
#299