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Jefferson23

(30,099 posts)
137. Krugman and the Gang of 4 Need to Apologize for Smearing Gerald Friedman
Tue Mar 29, 2016, 09:11 AM
Mar 2016

Posted on February 21, 2016

William K. Black
February 21, 2016 Bloomington, MN

If you depend for your news on the New York Times you have been subjected to a drumbeat of article attacking Bernie Sanders – and the conclusion of everyone “serious” that his economics are daft. In particular, you would “know” that four prior Chairs of the President’s Council of Economic Advisers (CEA) (the Gang of 4) have signed an open letter to Bernie that delivered a death blow to his proposals. Further, you would know that anyone who dared to disagree with these four illustrious economists was so deranged that he or she was acting like a Republican in denial of global climate change. The open letter set its sights on a far less famous economist, Gerald Friedman, of U. Mass at Amherst. It unleashed a personalized dismissal of his competence and integrity. Four of the Nation’s top economists against one non-famous economists – at a school that studies heterodox economics. That sounds like a fight that the referee should stop in the first round before Friedman is pummeled to death. But why did Paul Krugman need to “tag in” to try to save the Gang of 4 from being routed?

Krugman proclaimed that the Gang of 4 had crushed Friedman in a TKO. Tellingly, Krugman claimed that anyone who disagreed with the Gang of 4 must be beyond the pale (like Friedman and Bernie). Indeed, Krugman was so eager to fend off any analysis of the Group of 4’s attacks that he competed with himself rhetorically as to what inner circle of Hell any supporter of Friedman should be consigned. In the 10:44 a.m. variant, Krugman dismissed Bernie as “not ready for prime time” and decreed that it was illegitimate to critique the Gang of 4’s critique.

In Sanders’s case, I don’t think it’s ideology as much as being not ready for prime time — and also of not being willing to face up to the reality that the kind of drastic changes he’s proposing, no matter how desirable, would produce a lot of losers as well as winners.

And if your response to these concerns is that they’re all corrupt, all looking for jobs with Hillary, you are very much part of the problem.

The implicit message is that four famous economists had to be correct, therefore anyone who disagreed with them must be a conspiracy theorist who is “very much part of the problem.” Paul doesn’t explain what “the problem” is, but he sure makes it sound awful. Logically, “the problem” has to be progressives supporting Bernie.

Two hours later, Paul decided that his poisoned pen had not been toxic enough, he now denounced Sanders as a traitor to the progressives who was on his way “to making Donald Trump president.” To point out the problems in the Gang of 4’s attack on Friedman was to treat them “as right-wing enemies.” Why was Krugman so fervid in its efforts to smear Friedman and prevent any critique of the Gang of 4’s smear that he revised his article within two hours and amped up his rhetoric to a shrill cry of pain? Well, the second piece admits that Gang of 4’s smear of Friedman “didn’t get into specifics” and that progressives were already rising in disgust at Paul’s arrogance and eagerness to sign onto a smear that claimed “rigor” but actually “didn’t get into specifics” while denouncing a scholar. Paul, falsely, portrayed Friedman as a Bernie supporter. Like Krugman, Friedman is actually a Hillary supporter.

Sanders needs to disassociate himself from this kind of fantasy economics right now. If his campaign responds instead by lashing out — well, a campaign that treats Alan Krueger, Christy Romer, and Laura Tyson as right-wing enemies is well on its way to making Donald Trump president.

If we combine both of Paul’s screeds we see that the only way to disagree with a prominent economist is to demonize them as either “corrupt” or “enemies.” They are apparently inerrant. Paul was eager to use “authority” raised to the second power (the Gang of 4 plus both barrels – two hours apart – The “Full Krugman”) to prevent anyone actually looking at the Gang of 4’s letter and Friedman’s study. Indeed, as I was finishing this first article in a series on their smear I found that Krugman has tripled down on his smear of Friedman with a Sunday column.

Jamie Galbraith Scores a One-Two Punch KO on the Gang of 4 and Krugman

Alas, Krugman ran into Jamie Galbraith, who is not susceptible to Paul’s edicts of intimidation. Jamie’s piece is wonderfully concise and should be savored in its entirety. But here are the two key takeaways. Jamie destroyed the Gang of 4 and Krugman. Jamie made two simple points. First, Friedman is a supporter of Hillary Clinton, not Bernie. That means there is every reason to believe he did not engage in “voodoo” economics as Krugman charged in order to help Bernie. It also means that Paul’s demand: “Sanders needs to disassociate himself from this kind of fantasy economics right now” is bizarre. Why would Sanders need to disassociate himself from a Hillary supporter?

Second, Friedman’s study is utterly conventional in terms of the macro models that Krugman has been praising for years in his column. The results he calculates, that Krugman dismisses as “fantasy” and “voodoo” are in fact the normal product of the normal models Krugman and the Gang of 4 rely on. Friedman, Jamie, and I all have many doubts about those models, but not Krugman and the Gang of 4. Why does the standard model generate such powerful results for employment and growth? It does so because Bernie’s plan to spur the economy is far larger than current policies or anything program to spur the economy supported by Hillary. As Jamie phrases it:

What the Friedman paper shows, is that under conventional assumptions, the projected impact of Senator Sanders’ proposals stems from their scale and ambition. When you dare to do big things, big results should be expected. The Sanders program is big, and when you run it through a standard model, you get a big result. That, by the way, is the lesson of the Reagan era – like it or not. It is a lesson that, among today’s political leaders, only Senator Sanders has learned.

Give the conventionality of Friedman’s study, using a methodology that the Gang of 4 and Paul all embrace, what accounts for the mocking, dismissive tone of the Gang of 4’s letter and Krugman’s rhetorical race to the bottom with himself to demonize Friedman and Bernie? One might assume that Friedman had made a glaring error and that the Gang of 4 had discovered the error in the course of their rigorous review of his modelling of Bernie’s proposals.

We are concerned to see the Sanders campaign citing extreme claims by Gerald Friedman about the effect of Senator Sanders’s economic plan—claims that cannot be supported by the economic evidence. Friedman asserts that your plan will have huge beneficial impacts on growth rates, income and employment that exceed even the most grandiose predictions by Republicans about the impact of their tax cut proposals.

That’s how the Gang of 4 leads, and those two sentences are an enormous “tell” in the sense that word is used in poker. They are not attacking him for the model he used, they are not attacking him for his inputs, and they are not attacking him for a computation error. They are attacking him because their own models predict that Bernie’s plan would produce “huge beneficial impacts.” To state what should be obvious to any economist, much less the Gang of 4 and Krugman, that is not a logical criticism of Friedman or Bernie. The Gang of 4 and Paul’s criticisms are historical. When modest economic measures are taken to spur growth we observe only modest impacts on growth. That is not a logical argument against Friedman modelling Bernie’s proposals.

Again, I’m perfectly open to a critique that says the standard models are so badly flawed that such a projection should not be relied upon, but that is not what the Gang of 4 and Krugman do. They love the flawed models.

The Myths Economists Tell That Friedman’s Modeling of Bernie’s Plan Exposes

Orthodox economists just hate the results of Friedman’s model, for the results support Bernie, rather than Hillary. Worse, they show that orthodox economists’ claims that the government can do little good is a myth. They set out to kill the messenger, Friedman, even though Friedman shares their support for Hillary. The Gang of 4 and Krugman’s reaction to Friedman’s use of their own models has an odd, disturbing parallel made famous by my colleague Randy Wray.

[In] an interview Nobel winner Paul Samuelson gave to Mark Blaug (in his film on Keynes, “John Maynard Keynes: Life/Ideas/Legacy 1995”). Samuelson said:

“I think there is an element of truth in the view that the superstition that the budget must be balanced at all times [is necessary]. Once it is debunked [that] takes away one of the bulwarks that every society must have against expenditure out of control. There must be discipline in the allocation of resources or you will have anarchistic chaos and inefficiency. And one of the functions of old fashioned religion was to scare people by sometimes what might be regarded as myths into behaving in a way that the long-run civilized life requires. We have taken away a belief in the intrinsic necessity of balancing the budget if not in every year, [then] in every short period of time. If Prime Minister Gladstone came back to life he would say “uh, oh what you have done” and James Buchanan argues in those terms. I have to say that I see merit in that view.”

Orthodox economists are appalled by federal government deficits and stand in terror at the possibility that the public might ever understand how much the government could accomplish for the benefit of the American people if it got over the myths that a government with a sovereign currency is really just like a regular household and cannot run persistent deficits. Friedman’s modeling of Bernie’s plan is so terrifying to the Gang of 4 and Krugman because it shows – under the orthodox economic models – that the government can be a powerful engine of producing “huge beneficial impacts.” What is required is that our President has the nerve to junk the orthodox economic myths. As Jamie Galbraith wrote, “When you dare to do big things, big results should be expected.”

The Gang of 4 then evince another tell. They decry the fact that the standard models predict “huge beneficial impacts” from Bernie’s plan because the use of standard models “undermines our reputation as the party of responsible arithmetic.” The concept of “responsible arithmetic” is wondrous. Notice that they do not claim that Friedman’s “arithmetic” is inaccurate in the sense of making a computational or data input error. Nor do they attack his use of the conventional models they embrace. No, their criticism is that they hate the results of Friedman’s accurate arithmetic. They point out no errors in Friedman’s arithmetic. There is no indication that they ever checked out the accuracy of how he modeled the impacts of Bernie’s plans.

This means, as Jamie Galbraith observes, that the Gang of 4 and Krugman have smeared Friedman and Bernie. Here is the Gang of 4’s claim:

We have applied the same rigor to proposals by Democrats, and worked to ensure that forecasts of the effects of proposed economic policies, from investment in infrastructure, to education and training, to health care reforms, are grounded in economic evidence.

I certainly hope that statement is a knowing lie, for otherwise they owe an enormous apology to the Republicans. The Gang of 4 claims that they apply “the same rigor” to modeling policy proposals by Democrats as they do in their modeling of proposals by Republicans. Their claim is that that “rigor” has exposed Friedman to be someone who is gaming the arithmetic in a shockingly dishonest manner to help Bernie. I’ve already noted the embarrassing failure to reveal to their readers that Friedman supports Hillary, not Bernie. But what grievous errors of arithmetic did Friedman commit that were disclosed by the Gang of 4’s “rigor[ous]” review of his modeling? The Gang of 4, and Krugman, present no errors, and no analysis of Friedman’s study. They present no evidence that they conducted any review, much less a “rigor[ous]” review of Friedman’s modeling that disclosed any arithmetic errors. They literally simply hate the results of their own “standard” models because they show that Bernie’s plan produces “huge beneficial impacts.”

The Gang of 4 and Krugman Should Retract and Apologize to Friedman

Jamie Galbraith called the Gang of 4 and Paul out on their smear and their disgusting effort to substitute “authority” for logic, integrity, and intellectual honesty. The effort to use authority to destroy Friedman’s reputation, with no identification of a single arithmetic mistake in using their own models is reprehensible. The Gang of 4 and Krugman should retract their letter and blogs and personally apologize to Friedman. It is despicable to abuse authority and status.

Krugman’s Smear of Laura Tyson and Ode to the (All Male) Economics “Pecking Order”

Paul is famous for his arrogance and his dismissal of the work of economists he considers to be lesser in status. This makes his imperious demand that no one critique the Gang of 4’s smear of Friedman all the more ironic, because Laura D’Andrea Tyson is a member of the gang. Perhaps Paul has forgotten his smear of Ms. Tyson when, in 1993, she was the first woman appointed to chair the President’s Council of Economic Advisers.

The chairman of the Council of Economic Advisers has generally overshadowed the two other members, working directly with the President while the others have stayed in the background, their names almost unknown to the public. But as a macro-economist, Mr. Blinder is likely to play a prominent role on the council, since he is considered more suited than Ms. Tyson to performing a crucial task of the council: assessing the impact of proposed policies.

“I will be vastly reassured if Alan Blinder is named to the Council of Economic Advisers,” said Paul R. Krugman, a macroeconomist at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology who had himself been a candidate for the chairmanship. “He would provide the necessary analytical skills that Laura Tyson lacks.”

Mr. Krugman and many other macroeconomists, particularly those in academia, have come to consider the three-member Council of Economic Advisers as their “embassy” in Washington. Because they view the council as their chief means of influencing Administration policy, they urged Mr. Clinton to appoint a top macroeconomist who would properly practice their skills and represent their views.

Her appointment also raised the issue of rankings within the profession. Mr. Krugman and other economists argued that after 12 years of Republican Administrations, the chairmanship of the council should go to one of the Democrats among the ranks of the top macroeconomists.

“Despite what people say about economists always disagreeing with each other, there is agreement on rankings within the profession,” Mr. Krugman said.

“There is a pecking order,” he continued, citing Nobel laureates in economics like Paul Samuelson, Robert M. Solow and James Tobin as those at the pinnacle in the over-65 generation. All are Democrats. Mr. Blinder, Mr. Lawrence and Mr. Krugman, also Democrats, are ranked among the top 20 or so in the younger generation.

There is in fact “a pecking order” that has closed off Krugman to many important advances for decades because the advances were not made by people he considers to be sufficiently exalted in his “pecking order.” I am sure, however, that Ms. Tyson feels the irony that Krugman has now elevated her so high in his pecking order that no one is permitted to critique the Gang of 4’s smear of Friedman. Note that Krugman’s dismissal of Tyson was based on the fact that she had no expertise in macroeconomic modelling – precisely the skill necessary to critique Friedman’s modelling of Bernie’s economic proposals. Paul can’t even maintain logical consistency in his smears.

Ms. Tyson may wish to reflect on Krugman’s earlier sexist smear of her, based on status. I hope doing so will prompt introspection about her own role in smearing Friedman.

But you will learn none of these things in the New York Times, where the Upshot column, without any analysis, treats the smears of Friedman as revealed truth. Upshot does not mention Jamie Galbraith’s destruction of the Gang of 4 and Krugman. The stories inaccurately portray Friedman as a Bernie rather than a Hillary supporter. The column inaccurately claims that Friedman has made extreme assumptions. The results do not flow from idiosyncratic assumptions by Friedman. The “huge beneficial impacts” flow from the standard models and the far larger magnitude of Bernie’s plans to revive the economy. Yes, the Davos Democrats that Krugman once routinely reviled in Washington, D.C. do often roll their eyes at Bernie. The Davos Democrats, as Krugman once aptly pointed out, have been wrong about a vast range of economic issues. They are not “rigorous,” they are arrogant, errant, and represent the Wall Street wing of the Democratic Party. A considerable number of Americans have figured that out. Read Tom Frank’s new book (Listen, Liberal) if you want the revolting details.

http://neweconomicperspectives.org/2016/02/krugman-gang-4-need-apologize-smearing-gerald-friedman.html

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

"21"? daleanime Mar 2016 #1
42 JustABozoOnThisBus Mar 2016 #129
Why does the other founder of the American Prospect... GeorgiaPeanuts Mar 2016 #2
He is looking for a better job, Sanders is his only hope. Hoyt Mar 2016 #61
And this is why Single Payer failed in Vermont. DanTex Mar 2016 #3
This is why he shouldn't be President. geek tragedy Mar 2016 #4
But... but... but... cui bono Mar 2016 #6
So am I. I still find his campaigning dishonest Recursion Mar 2016 #31
Examples? cui bono Mar 2016 #98
"We spend twice as much per capita on health care as any other nation on earth" Recursion Mar 2016 #107
Actually, we do spend twice as much, and sometimes more SheilaT Mar 2016 #152
We spend twice the OECD average, but not "twice as much as any other industrialized country" Recursion Mar 2016 #165
No you aren't. kristopher Mar 2016 #120
He gets my vote and my money; what else do you want? Recursion Mar 2016 #121
5thC kristopher Mar 2016 #127
Uhh, the cost doesn't matter scscholar Mar 2016 #27
on planet earth, the cost always matters. That's why we pay taxes nt geek tragedy Mar 2016 #32
So if we don't raise taxes, who will be paying for health care? DemocracyDirect Mar 2016 #111
Except of course when it comes to war, then the wars pay for themselves Fumesucker Mar 2016 #119
Is that how you rationalize the privatization of Social Security? And ending food stamps? rhett o rick Mar 2016 #48
LOL, been in a supermarket line lately? ucrdem Mar 2016 #55
Neither of those things will happen with Hillary. With the Republicans-probably redstateblues Mar 2016 #66
On Kenneth Thorpe’s Analysis of Senator Sanders’ Single-Payer Reform Plan think Mar 2016 #63
Please reread the part of the OP in bold and tell me geek tragedy Mar 2016 #67
Where did Dylan Matthews get these numbers? I can't find them anywhere other than in these think Mar 2016 #109
Matthews article geek tragedy Mar 2016 #112
So now you claim Freidman is a quack? You're entitled to your opinion but in case you haven't notice think Mar 2016 #113
You think it's just wonderful that people failed to notice that their current premiums would-- eridani Mar 2016 #5
You think he's a Democrat? HERVEPA Mar 2016 #7
He's far closer to Dem party platform positions thqn his opponent eridani Mar 2016 #10
Not talking about Bernie. Check the last line of your previous post. HERVEPA Mar 2016 #17
Is math a personality thing or a policy thing? nt geek tragedy Mar 2016 #18
It just changes if you are getting the right kickback maybe? Tiggeroshii Mar 2016 #110
That is not what they said. geek tragedy Mar 2016 #9
The price tag was lower than the total cost of health insurance premiums n/t eridani Mar 2016 #11
Why did it fail in Vermont? geek tragedy Mar 2016 #15
So I take it kaleckim Mar 2016 #68
It can work if done right, but to do it right you have to do the math right. geek tragedy Mar 2016 #73
Give me a break kaleckim Mar 2016 #87
Which country did an overnight transition from a system like ours geek tragedy Mar 2016 #88
Again, you say "overnight" kaleckim Mar 2016 #91
I agree it will take a long time. geek tragedy Mar 2016 #93
Nonsense kaleckim Mar 2016 #95
So what is he planning to do in office, hold teach-ins? nt geek tragedy Mar 2016 #97
What is your argument? kaleckim Mar 2016 #101
Presidents aren't protest leaders. geek tragedy Mar 2016 #102
They can lead by inspiring the public using the bully pulpit n/t eridani Mar 2016 #116
bully pulpit doesn't work in a polarized country geek tragedy Mar 2016 #149
The country isn't polarized on the issues kaleckim Mar 2016 #155
Everything wrong with your party kaleckim Mar 2016 #147
So you hate Democrats, okay I don't care what you think then Bye nt geek tragedy Mar 2016 #148
No, I hate your argument, mindset... kaleckim Mar 2016 #151
Taiwan and South Korea n/t eridani Mar 2016 #115
Yes, by about 10 percent at the most... that's not enough savings to tear shit up uponit7771 Mar 2016 #16
The savings grow over time--especially for the 55-65 age demographic eridani Mar 2016 #24
Unnnn, still not worth tearin shit up... that's what the national SP plan would do too. uponit7771 Mar 2016 #29
Tearing shit up gets rid of useless parasitic insurance companies eridani Mar 2016 #33
and keeps the the overtly parasitic doctors, pharma and hospital corporations. So instead of paying uponit7771 Mar 2016 #38
Insurance companies don't provide health care. Doctors do. End of story. eridani Mar 2016 #43
Too many coulds and ACA would be ended by inertia uponit7771 Mar 2016 #51
It will not end until replaced by something better n/t eridani Mar 2016 #59
Where is it that you got that $200...out of thin air? Sheepshank Mar 2016 #70
From an estimate by a couple of UW professors on the Washington Health Security Trust n/t eridani Mar 2016 #114
which differs significantly from the article in the op Sheepshank Mar 2016 #141
You want a copy of the Fox Report for WA State? eridani Mar 2016 #167
I just wanted to read the details of the info you had and where it came from Sheepshank Mar 2016 #171
I'll post a couple of items from my slide show eridani Mar 2016 #174
Horse shit. phleshdef Mar 2016 #21
None of those excuses make any sense. DanTex Mar 2016 #128
Other entire countries have pulled it off phleshdef Mar 2016 #159
Those countries have much higher taxes than what Bernie is proposing. DanTex Mar 2016 #161
More economic diversity typically means more incomes to pull from. phleshdef Mar 2016 #163
You guys rationalize why Goldman-Sachs should rip us off and dare pretend that you care. rhett o rick Mar 2016 #22
he knows he isn't going to win the nomination JI7 Mar 2016 #8
he is saying the opposite nt geek tragedy Mar 2016 #13
+1, Magic asterisks, conciliatory GOP congress's, ponies, unicorns and podium bird.. uponit7771 Mar 2016 #12
Dust sprinkled by the Indictment Fairy nt geek tragedy Mar 2016 #14
This is the reason I think he's staying in, Tad Devine has a Reddit account and someones convinced uponit7771 Mar 2016 #19
They really are Clinton in 2008. geek tragedy Mar 2016 #20
+1, they're even winning nearly the same constituency Hillary lost with in 2008... lol on "whitey uponit7771 Mar 2016 #23
Nothing, other than objective reality kaleckim Mar 2016 #77
I disagree with your first statement IE the Sanders camp discontent with Obama. Overnight is relativ uponit7771 Mar 2016 #142
Sure, they may want it within 8 years kaleckim Mar 2016 #150
And you are willing to turn your backs on the 16,000,000 American children living in poverty. rhett o rick Mar 2016 #25
Let's first use honest math. RandySF Mar 2016 #28
Don't pretend you care about honesty. You side with those that want money over everything. rhett o rick Mar 2016 #36
Oh, you can reads minds now? RandySF Mar 2016 #45
Those that bow before the golden calf are easy to read. Greed uber alles. nm rhett o rick Mar 2016 #52
Why do you think she has to bust her ass raising more millions? ucrdem Mar 2016 #46
She pockets a lot of it. $150,000,000 while pretending she cares about the peons. I guess you rhett o rick Mar 2016 #50
According to Alex Jones or HA Goodman? ucrdem Mar 2016 #53
How do you rationalize siding with those that would kill SS and other safety nets. rhett o rick Mar 2016 #56
I answered above. Go to any supermarket and observe. nt ucrdem Mar 2016 #58
BSS propaganda-Those things will only happen if the Republicans win redstateblues Mar 2016 #75
You are mistaken if you think the Class War is between Democrats and Republicons. rhett o rick Mar 2016 #164
$230 billion to $541 billion dollars over the next decade. k8conant Mar 2016 #47
It's the damn bird, it's his MATH source, not good....n/t blueintelligentsia Mar 2016 #26
PNHP math is quite good, actually eridani Mar 2016 #30
I know, they are, such a good source. Those Sander cultists... blueintelligentsia Mar 2016 #34
What is sad is your rationaliziations to give all our resources to the wealthy and the hell with rhett o rick Mar 2016 #54
They cite Thorpe's study nt geek tragedy Mar 2016 #35
Former Clinton senior advisor Paul Starr has issues with Sanders' plan? opiate69 Mar 2016 #37
Did he force Sanders to lie about the prescription drug savings? geek tragedy Mar 2016 #41
Apparently, neither Mr. Starr, nor yourself, are familiar with the concept of "forecasting". opiate69 Mar 2016 #60
No, what happened was that Sanders claimed he could save $325 billion per year geek tragedy Mar 2016 #65
It is 100% possible to save that much. The actual savings will of course depent on-- eridani Mar 2016 #124
Yes, but he does it well, and the general electorate seems to like that Recursion Mar 2016 #39
lying about the numbers always catches up with them in the end though geek tragedy Mar 2016 #42
My question is...why don't Sanders and Clinton compromise with the public option? JonLeibowitz Mar 2016 #57
Because nobody really believes providers would accept it Recursion Mar 2016 #62
Sigh...so single/multi payer (where the math doesn't currently add up) is the only option? JonLeibowitz Mar 2016 #64
Structurally our system is similar to the Netherlands' and Germany's already Recursion Mar 2016 #72
Great post, thanks. I'm reading into the SGR now. JonLeibowitz Mar 2016 #90
I'm afraid you're exactly right about the independent board Recursion Mar 2016 #92
Clinton's plan includes the public option. geek tragedy Mar 2016 #69
No, it does not. Prove it to me. JonLeibowitz Mar 2016 #71
From her campaign website: geek tragedy Mar 2016 #76
How long term? She's not campaigning on it, she mentions protecting/expanding ACA JonLeibowitz Mar 2016 #82
That is why she has a backup plan in case Congress does not cooperate. geek tragedy Mar 2016 #86
Yes, but the candidate has to campaign on that! Sanders would no doubt fall back to what she wants JonLeibowitz Mar 2016 #89
It's on her website, but she sure the hell isn't campaigning on it eridani Mar 2016 #117
Any one of these guys could "cost out" eg. the Canadian single payer plan. delrem Mar 2016 #40
We pay twice what most other developed countries pay n/t eridani Mar 2016 #44
A shitload of Dems agree with Hillary Clinton. For profit private insurance is forever. delrem Mar 2016 #49
Nobody worries about money for the military, cluster bombs etc. Rosa Luxemburg Mar 2016 #74
Plenty of people worry about the Pentagon costing too much. geek tragedy Mar 2016 #79
It's not the first untruth BS campaign has touted. Sheepshank Mar 2016 #78
Wrong on many significant levels: Jefferson23 Mar 2016 #80
I didn't see anywhere in there support for the claim that geek tragedy Mar 2016 #83
Then by all means, carry on with your hit piece. n/t Jefferson23 Mar 2016 #85
that cost $305 Billion..... AlbertCat Mar 2016 #143
!applauds! Warren Stupidity Mar 2016 #132
Thank you, the OP is such a dishonest and terrible representation of Bernie's plan. n/t Jefferson23 Mar 2016 #133
Sorry that you think everyone outside the Bernie Bubble geek tragedy Mar 2016 #136
I'm not the one looking at partisan critics and relying on them. Jefferson23 Mar 2016 #140
they cite the Thorpe study nt geek tragedy Mar 2016 #146
When I put in the numbers for me it told me that I would pay more in taxes. LiberalFighter Mar 2016 #81
This election season Aerows Mar 2016 #84
KNR Thank you! Lucinda Mar 2016 #94
Tad Devine wants that money coming in cosmicone Mar 2016 #96
One question: how do all those other countries do it? dchill Mar 2016 #99
They built their systems over decades without ever relying on employers to provide geek tragedy Mar 2016 #100
OK. So, it's too late for that here? dchill Mar 2016 #103
Taiwan implemented single payer in about a year n/t eridani Mar 2016 #118
Taiwan's not strictly single payer (there are copays), but we should emulate their system Recursion Mar 2016 #122
Copays or no copays have nothing to do with whether a system is single payer or not eridani Mar 2016 #123
Well, except that a system with copays has multiple payers Recursion Mar 2016 #125
OK--verbal technicality. n/t eridani Mar 2016 #126
What did Taiwan have in place before that? nt geek tragedy Mar 2016 #138
Brief history at link eridani Mar 2016 #166
Paying for Hillary's Tax-Credit-Palooza TheDormouse Mar 2016 #104
Hillary panders with unrealistic tax promises TheDormouse Mar 2016 #105
Hillary's tax credit sweepstakes--there's one for u & u & u ... TheDormouse Mar 2016 #106
Clinton is being up front about how much her proposals would cost. geek tragedy Mar 2016 #108
"free" is the wrong word to use treestar Mar 2016 #130
Krugman- Sanders health plan looks a little bit like a standard Republican tax-cut plan Gothmog Mar 2016 #131
Article is old and debunked. thesquanderer Mar 2016 #134
Friedman is a quack. geek tragedy Mar 2016 #135
Krugman and the Gang of 4 Need to Apologize for Smearing Gerald Friedman Jefferson23 Mar 2016 #137
Romer and Romer eviscerated Friedman's nonsense. geek tragedy Mar 2016 #139
James Galbraith Describes Major Forecast Failure in Model Used by Romers to Attack Friedman on Sande Jefferson23 Mar 2016 #144
That's gibberish from Galbraith geek tragedy Mar 2016 #145
Gibberish? Galbraith is one of the leading experts on income inequality. Jefferson23 Mar 2016 #158
Galbraith breezily ignored the substance of Romer's critique geek tragedy Mar 2016 #160
PNHP disputes it and Starr's wiki page doesn't change a thing, anyone Jefferson23 Mar 2016 #162
Sad day when so called liberals are supporting arguments AGAINST single payer. Jackie Wilson Said Mar 2016 #153
I am not attacking single payer, rather saying that the math has to work geek tragedy Mar 2016 #154
Yeah but he didnt fudge the numbers, at least not on purpose. Figuring out how to do it Jackie Wilson Said Mar 2016 #156
yes, but he had to have the math worked out right in order geek tragedy Mar 2016 #157
Really interesting discussion, even though Demnorth Mar 2016 #168
A cost increase of 7% per year over 3 years is not an unreasonable estimate. baldguy Mar 2016 #169
Ha ha! Did you see the post of the 179 top economists who endorsed Bernie's plan? pdsimdars Mar 2016 #170
''When Wall Street firms lie about their finances, the legal term that applies is 'fraud.''' Octafish Mar 2016 #172
After being elected Bernie and his team can work out the details- there will be time andym Mar 2016 #173
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