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2016 Postmortem
In reply to the discussion: Regarding today's meme about Sarandon. Here's what she was really saying (IMO) [View all]Gothmog
(174,136 posts)73. Your analysis is wrong as normal
The issue on this thread is that Sanders has promised a revolution with millions and millions of new voters who will enable Sanders to deliver on his unpopular and expensive platform. Without these millions and millions of new voters, then Sander will be unable to keep his promises. Sanders' plans for adopting his proposals depend on these new voters. Here is how Sanders thinks that he will be able to force the GOP to be reasonable http://www.dailykos.com/stories/2016/2/21/1483791/-Imagine-Bernie-Sanders-wins-the-White-House-Then-what
Bernie Sanders has made some very big promises when it comes to his legislative priorities: He says hell make college free, pass a constitutional amendment to overturn Citizens United, and institute a generous single-payer national health insurance program. And when hes asked how hell turn these promises into reality, he says that he and his supporters will help bring about a political revolution.
Thats a phrase Sanders uses often, but what does he mean by it? Sanders has said that if he wins the presidency, his victory will be accompanied by a huge increase in voter turnoutone that he thinks might end Republican control of Congress. But Sanders acknowledges that the House and Senate could, in spite of his best efforts, remain in GOP hands come next January.
Given that likelihood, Sanders offers an alternate means for achieving his political revolution. He says he knows that a Democratic president cant simply sit down and negotiate with Republican leaders and forge a series of compromises. Anyone who's observed the GOPs behavior over the course of Barack Obamas presidency would not dispute that, and in any event, no compromise with Republicans would ever lead to single-payer anyway.
So what then? How would a President Sanders get Mitch McConnell and Paul Ryan to pass any of his big-ticket items? This is the model he proposes:
Thats a phrase Sanders uses often, but what does he mean by it? Sanders has said that if he wins the presidency, his victory will be accompanied by a huge increase in voter turnoutone that he thinks might end Republican control of Congress. But Sanders acknowledges that the House and Senate could, in spite of his best efforts, remain in GOP hands come next January.
Given that likelihood, Sanders offers an alternate means for achieving his political revolution. He says he knows that a Democratic president cant simply sit down and negotiate with Republican leaders and forge a series of compromises. Anyone who's observed the GOPs behavior over the course of Barack Obamas presidency would not dispute that, and in any event, no compromise with Republicans would ever lead to single-payer anyway.
So what then? How would a President Sanders get Mitch McConnell and Paul Ryan to pass any of his big-ticket items? This is the model he proposes:
What we do is you put an issue before Congress, lets just use free tuition at public colleges and universities, and that vote is going to take place on November 8 ... whatever it may be. We tell millions and millions of people, young people and their parents, there is going to be a vote ... half the people dont know whats going on ... but we tell them when the vote is, maybe we welcome a million young people to Washington, D.C. to say hello to their members of Congress. Maybe we have the telephones and the e-mails flying all over the place so that everybody in America will know how their representative is voting. [...]
And then Republicans are going to have to make a decision. Then theyre going to have to make a decision. You know, when thousands of young people in their district are saying, You vote against this, youre out of your job, because we know whats going on. So this gets back to what a political revolution is about, is bringing people in touch with the Congress, not having that huge wall. Thats how you bring about change.
The rest of the DK article debunks that concept that Paul Ryan or Mitch McConnell could be influenced by these new voters but we never get to this issue and Sanders himself admits that he will not bet elected without this revolution. So far we are not seeing any evidence of this revolution. Again, Sanders's whole campaign is based on this revolution and so it is appropriate to ask where these new voters are?
It is hard for me to take Sanders' proposals seriously including the ones you want to talk about unless and until we see some evidence of this revolution.
Again, where are these millions and millions of new voters?
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Regarding today's meme about Sarandon. Here's what she was really saying (IMO) [View all]
Armstead
Mar 2016
OP
Before the inevitable "Saying you aren't sure if you're voting for Clinton is voting for Trump"
JonLeibowitz
Mar 2016
#1
True, saying you're "not sure about voting for Clinton" is not the same thing as voting for Trump.
DanTex
Mar 2016
#7
Trump, on the other hand, would be compelled to nominate Right wing Supreme Court Justices.
Trust Buster
Mar 2016
#2
If Trump were to replace Scalia and Ginsburg, a 6-3 right leaning Court would exist for 25 years.
Trust Buster
Mar 2016
#69
Sorry, Bernie Sanders. There is zero evidence of your ‘political revolution’ yet
Gothmog
Mar 2016
#3
Without these millions and millions of new voters, then Sanders campaign cannot deliver on platform
Gothmog
Mar 2016
#72
Susan Sarandon never said she agreed. She was just echoing what she has seen out in the country.
JonLeibowitz
Mar 2016
#21
If you think things are fine and think they should continue as they have been, fine
Armstead
Mar 2016
#24
Again, the premise of your thread and the Sanders campaign requires millions and millions of voters
Gothmog
Mar 2016
#27
But in a democracy, the majority vote wins and Clinton has 2.5 million more votes
Gothmog
Mar 2016
#35
You are wrong in that you are missing the fact that Sanders' revolution is a flop
Gothmog
Mar 2016
#51
When did she say "that is not a desirable outcome"- Chris tried to get her to disagree....
bettyellen
Mar 2016
#12
That's fine if that's your opinion...but I think the reasons for her opinion should be....
Armstead
Mar 2016
#23
the corruption has always been there, which is why one man alone cannot fix it.
bettyellen
Mar 2016
#49
Maybe they kick Hillary instead of themselves for being so very wrong? I see that happen in the
bettyellen
Mar 2016
#52
Corruption was rampant before Citizens United. I agree about a Constitutional amendment
Armstead
Mar 2016
#57
I agree that Vietnam was horrible, but I don't think we can sum up LBJ's entire legacy based
StevieM
Mar 2016
#79
Congress did all of those good things--though obviously he played a role in it.
geek tragedy
Mar 2016
#80
I agree about Vietnam. But LBJ was a legendary vote getter. And I don't think Congress would have
StevieM
Mar 2016
#81
I've been hearing "It has to get worse before it gets better" for at least 50 years
eridani
Mar 2016
#68
The frustration underlying that cliche still exists...Things keep getting worse
Armstead
Mar 2016
#71