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Carolina

(6,960 posts)
153. Wishful thinking
Mon Apr 18, 2016, 03:42 PM
Apr 2016

plunder, pillage, lie and cheat... then unite.

Guess what? No fucking way. And it's not just millennials; it's people like me who are HRC's peers who will also never vote for her. Her record is disaster after disaster.

She rode Bill's coat tails to power. He had the intellect (Georgetown Univ, Rhodes Scholar, Yale Law), charisma, gift of gab, and natural ability to connect with people. She was smart, too (Wellesley, Yale Law). After law school, she went to DC to work on the Nixon impeachment committee, but her stint there did not last long because, among other reasons, she did not pass the DC bar. She tells the story that she went to work for the Children's Defense Fund (CDF) founded by Marian Wright Edelman as evidence of her advocacy for children and that's true... some 20 plus years ago. But recall that Marian’s husband, Peter Edelman who became Bill Clinton’s Assistant Secretary of Health and Human Services, resigned in protest over the 1996 Personal Responsibility and Work Opportunity Act better known as Welfare Reform because of the dire effects it would have on the poor, especially women and children. HRC supported Bill and the bill; but Peter Edelman was right.

So after leaving DC, what did HRC do? She ran off to Arkansas! Yes, this dynamo of feminism whom so many women say could have done anything, been anything on her own… did not go back to her native Chicago, did not go back to New England (MA, CT) where she was educated. No, she ran off to Arkansas. She chased after Bill because she recognized his rising star. He had the talent to go along with the intellect. He had held leadership positions nearly all his life: high school (Boy’s State) and college (class president for 2 years, etc.). He became Governor, chaired the National Governors’ Association and finally became POTUS. It was only through him that she was introduced to the nation and even then, it was rocky because of her abrasive, snarky remarks about baking cookies.

When she ran for POTUS in 2008, she cited her 20 years of experience. Really? First Lady of AK for 12 years and FLOTUS for 8 years. Oh, and she was a corporate lawyer at the Rose Law Firm where her client was Walmart – that champion of poor people – and where she relied heavily on the counsel of Vince Foster.

She could never have carpet bagged her way to the NY Senate seat had she not been FLOTUS. And once in the Senate, what did she DO? What legislation or amendments to legislation illustrate her initiative or activism on behalf of the people. The aye votes for IWR, the Patriot Acts 1 & 2 and Bush's Bankruptcy bill sure were a big help to us all

And let's talk about that IWR vote in depth because there was, and remains, no excuse or justification for it and here's why

Reason 1: Iraq did not attack the US; fifteen of the nineteen hijackers were Saudis while the other four were from the UAE, Egypt, Yemen. They learned to fly here in the States (Florida, Arizona). Bin Laden was also Saudi!

Reason 2: Iraq had been under horrific UN sanctions since the first Bush war on Iraq in 1991; so how could it have morphed into an imminent threat to the US in 2002 when IWR was being peddled

Reason 3: W's administration introduced IWR and demanded a vote on it right before the 2002 midterm elections. Wise men and women questioned the timing and the rush, but not those who voted aye... they had their eyes on being POTUS and cast calculating votes that reeked of political and moral cowardice.

Reason 4: Anyone who was paying attention knew about PNAC and therefore knew how the Bush cabal and Carlyle group had their eyes on carving up Iraq's oil fields. Clinton sure knew because the signers of PNAC policy papers wrote Bill seeking pre-emptive action while he was POTUS.

Reason 5: the Bush cabal STOLE the White House in 2000 because they had their PNAC plans. Then, they ignored all the warnings/chatter leading up to 9/11 including the August 6th PDB. They allege they were blindsided and could not have foreseen such an attack. But that flies in the face of the fact that the airspace had to be closed around the G-8 summit in Genoa, Italy in July 2001 precisely because of terrorists' threats to fly planes into buildings! So therefore, why would any sentient 'leader' of the opposition party trust or "have good faith" in ANYTHING proposed by W

Reason 6: Anyone who knew history, knew that Reagan sold WMDs to Saddam/Iraq during the Iran-Iraq war (recall the photo of Rumsfeld shaking Saddam's hand). So when Cheney took to the airwaves in 2002 talking about WMDs and said he knew where they were and how they'd been used against the Kurds, he was telling the truth... about 1988. He was using his dirty past to foment a new war for oil

Reason 7: the Bush cabal withdrew the weapons inspectors because they were not finding anything. Scott Ritter (who was smeared) and his fellow inspectors' findings would not/did not conform to the desired Bush narrative, so Colin Bowel sold his soul and did his 'tube' presentation to the UN

Reason 8: Citing the Tet Offensive during the Vietnam War, Robert Byrd gave an eloquent and passionate speech about lies that lead to war, about the waste of war, about the unintended consequences of war... and he challenged the rush to war. Bob Graham (who actually read the documents available to Congress) and Ted Kennedy spoke as well. Why didn't HRC listen to them rather than Bush or Cheney? No, she gave Bush bipartisan cover with her aye vote, and so she has blood on her hands, too!

Clearly the rationale for IWR was all a LIE, and if millions of citizens could see all this THEN, why not Clinton?! She voted aye, ran for POTUS and lost in large measure because of that vote. Votes have consequences and there is no apology large enough to cover a cowardly, finger-in-the-wind vote that has caused so much death, debt, destruction and destabilization (ISIS)!

Back to the narrative. Then there was her abysmal management and nasty conduct during the 2008 primary campaign. She had the money, she had the name, she was entitled, she was "in it to win it" and so arrogant that she claimed it would be over by Super Tuesday. But when it wasn't and she was losing, she resorted to the gutter. She praised McCain and derided Obama as someone who only gave pretty speeches. And when the Party urged her to bow out gracefully, she said that she was going to stay in the race through the CA primary because "you never know... remember Bobby Kennedy..." Her insinuation (a veiled wish?) that Obama might be assassinated like RFK was beyond classless and tasteless. It was evil (google Keith Olbermann on that atrocity). And when she finally, gracelessly bowed out, she did so on condition that the Obama organization and DNC pay off her campaign debt. Some management skills, just like her Wall Street benefactors who f--- things up, then expect others to pay for the disaster they created.

On to SOS, where Obama selected her because he'd been inspired by Lincoln's team of rivals and wanted to keep her busy and away so she couldn't be a quasi-backbencher sniping at him. Or more likely, some sort of deal was struck. In the end, she was also terrible in that position. Her Honduras regime change led many men, women and children, some alone, to flee the disaster that nation subsequently became. Same with Libya and Syria. HRC, the consummate pro-MIC corporatist, never saw a war she didn't like. And last I checked, war is not good for women, children or men! Also at State, she sold weapons to Saudi Arabia (home of bin laden and most of Sept 11th hijackers) while the Saudis donated to that slush fund known as the Clinton Foundation.

She is also part of the Clinton legacy (the two for one, the 8 years of reflected experience derived from Bill). She helped found the DLC and fully supported: NAFTA, the Telecommunications Bill of 1996, Welfare Reform (not), and overturning Glass-Steagall. She and Bill kept Alan Greenspan at the Fed, placed the then Mr. Goldman Sucks himself Robert Reuben as head of Treasury and hired as financial advisor that abominable Wall Streeter Larry Summers (who lost a $1.8 billion from Harvard's endowment!). This Clinton triumvirate wrecked the economy for main street, but saved Wall Street, especially Goldman-Sachs which has subsequently paid her handsomely. And as DUer tularetom once said: "They didn't pay her that kind of money because of her oratorical skills, her charismatic personality or her insight into current events. She has none of the first two and very little of the third."



We, the people, reaped the whirlwind of that 1999 Glass-Steagall reversal for which every repuke in the Senate voted AYE while every Dem -- save one -- voted NAY. Bill signed it into law anyway, paying no heed to the canary-in-the-mine Dems who said that this dastardly new law would lead to disaster 10 years hence. Sure enough it did, harming families throughout the land. And Wall Street, Hillary's BFF, continues to be such a benefactor for the people

This is HRC's history. And I haven't even touched on fracking and the TPP. She has DONE nothing that is positive or constructive. She's in it for herself, she plays sexist gender politics, she lies about her awful record, she changes her mind with the political winds, she panders, she pads her pockets, and she is a triangulator to her core.





So you think they will prefer Trump or Cruz? nt onehandle Apr 2016 #1
Trump, definitely. peacebird Apr 2016 #3
That makes no sense. They'd go from a man that condemns Islamophobia to one that embraces it? grossproffit Apr 2016 #7
No, some would go to Hillary, some would go to Jill Stein, some would stay home, and some would go Attorney in Texas Apr 2016 #48
and some will leave prez blank and vote downticket floppyboo Apr 2016 #129
This is what I plan on doing. Nedsdag Apr 2016 #182
So Millennials are for Trump. onehandle Apr 2016 #8
No, but given the establishment Powers are against Trump, then in a Trump or Cruz world I can see peacebird Apr 2016 #15
Sanders: Clinton On Her Worst Day Is An 'Infinitely Better Candidate' Than Any GOPer oberliner Apr 2016 #28
I support Bernie, but respectfully disagree with him on that peacebird Apr 2016 #34
Do you think there is a GOPer who would make a better POTUS than Hillary? oberliner Apr 2016 #43
You do know it's not an "either/or" choice, right? Fawke Em Apr 2016 #50
The poster said they disagreed with Bernie's quote oberliner Apr 2016 #57
Except when you do that, you're handing your vote to the Republicans. LonePirate Apr 2016 #69
In discussing this with a few younger people... DemocracyDirect Apr 2016 #97
We do care, it's just we don't see Clinton as much of a choice. Fawke Em Apr 2016 #137
Thank you! That is exactly how I feel. peacebird Apr 2016 #142
Amen to that farleftlib Apr 2016 #163
I think that is something we can agree on DrDan Apr 2016 #10
No, but they don't see a great deal of difference... Yurovsky Apr 2016 #11
Maybe not DemocratSinceBirth Apr 2016 #17
yeah but if you are a white male then it really doesn't matter to you dsc Apr 2016 #24
Women are flocking to Bernie. Fawke Em Apr 2016 #51
Not black women oberliner Apr 2016 #60
Black people will vote dem in the GE XemaSab Apr 2016 #89
nice of you to take them for granted dsc Apr 2016 #103
Isnt that whats bejng done to millenials? Nt SwampG8r Apr 2016 #119
How many times have we seen LexVegas post VulgarPoet Apr 2016 #127
They're the most reliable dem voters XemaSab Apr 2016 #147
I'm of mixed race & find his comments repugnant... Yurovsky Apr 2016 #111
They may perfer not to vote... R. Daneel Olivaw Apr 2016 #19
Bernie passionately urges young people to get out and vote oberliner Apr 2016 #44
Sanders' supporters agree with him about the status quo (undesirable and untenable) Betty Karlson Apr 2016 #88
Let's see what happens in New York oberliner Apr 2016 #123
Clinton didn't bow out until June last time. R. Daneel Olivaw Apr 2016 #132
I don't think anyone should bow out until June this time either oberliner Apr 2016 #134
If she is our nominee, she will need to reach out unapatriciated Apr 2016 #96
A platform doesn't really guarantee anything... Yurovsky Apr 2016 #112
You are probably correct unapatriciated Apr 2016 #114
A platform is just words on a paper if you can't trust the nominee. Skwmom Apr 2016 #156
You see, that's the same BS-myopic-Wassermann R. Daneel Olivaw Apr 2016 #130
K&R, K&R, K&R, K&R, K&R Carolina Apr 2016 #154
^pretty much my sentiments, but I'm still hoping that through Sanders we can avoid that scenario Betty Karlson Apr 2016 #168
Imagine what the race would have been without all the favouritism? R. Daneel Olivaw Apr 2016 #170
They'll prefer starting a new party. eom Betty Karlson Apr 2016 #25
Let's hope they figure out the registration deadlines first. Then they can R B Garr Apr 2016 #30
No need to figure that out unless the PTB unilaterally change registrations. Betty Karlson Apr 2016 #54
I figured you would default to a bogus talking line. R B Garr Apr 2016 #59
For "navigate" read: "play ball with the 1 %, and be glad for scraps from the table" Betty Karlson Apr 2016 #68
More predictable conspiracy theories. R B Garr Apr 2016 #83
Oh right: all criticism is either sexist or racist or conspirational. Bey! Betty Karlson Apr 2016 #84
The conspiracy theories are perfectly self-serving, which is apparently the R B Garr Apr 2016 #86
"ridiculous"? the choice of words betrays a lack of argument. Betty Karlson Apr 2016 #91
More bogus, made-up conspiracy theories. LOL at your shift to the "Saudis" R B Garr Apr 2016 #93
It's called a simile, or else an extended comparison Betty Karlson Apr 2016 #95
Thanks for doubling down on the conspiracy theory about how the Establishment R B Garr Apr 2016 #100
Your extreme hyperbolation of my response shows how little merit there is to your argument. Betty Karlson Apr 2016 #167
Right, because conspiracy theories are obviously the way to go. Comparing 9/11 to R B Garr Apr 2016 #171
More twisting words and spin. I compared the purge to the 28 pages being hidden. Betty Karlson Apr 2016 #174
Yeah, and all Camp Pinocchio has to offer are bogus accusations to R B Garr Apr 2016 #175
If you like twisting so much, there is a dance you should explore. Betty Karlson Apr 2016 #179
This kind of works both ways. R B Garr Apr 2016 #181
Funny thing here betty SwampG8r Apr 2016 #116
Great response! Avalon Sparks Apr 2016 #161
What about The Green Party? oberliner Apr 2016 #45
Yep. That's where I'm going after this because fuck the corporate pimping. nt VulgarPoet Apr 2016 #64
Yes and no: Betty Karlson Apr 2016 #66
Not voting at all seems antithetical to everything Bernie stands for oberliner Apr 2016 #71
Which part of "irregular voter" don't you get? They vote when they feel something good is on offer Betty Karlson Apr 2016 #81
I don't get the entire concept oberliner Apr 2016 #124
I'm sure that is what DINO-Debbie is hoping for. Betty Karlson Apr 2016 #169
It might for those who see unapatriciated Apr 2016 #98
No, they will just lose interest... Human101948 Apr 2016 #32
correct franannjo Apr 2016 #141
they will prefer staying home or stein. nt restorefreedom Apr 2016 #47
I think a lot of them will stay home. CrispyQ Apr 2016 #53
Which stage of grief is this? DemocratSinceBirth Apr 2016 #2
What a dumb provoocative post... Human101948 Apr 2016 #35
When in Rome... DemocratSinceBirth Apr 2016 #42
Have you looked at the rest of the polls at that link? oberliner Apr 2016 #46
On what basis? mmonk Apr 2016 #4
I added clarification above. Skwmom Apr 2016 #52
Lemme join the rumpus yourpaljoey Apr 2016 #5
Joe is expert at reading the minds of liberal millennials. merrily Apr 2016 #6
Well, I can say from my exposure to my students Nonhlanhla Apr 2016 #9
Hillary selling out to Wall Street is not a RW smear... Yurovsky Apr 2016 #12
You had to get the talking point in, right? Nonhlanhla Apr 2016 #14
All of those Clinton money transactions while business was before the state dept is just a right Skwmom Apr 2016 #16
That's already rolled out apcalc Apr 2016 #26
And Hillary supporters have no problem with ethics they would condemn in a Bush family candidate... Human101948 Apr 2016 #36
just think of all the death & destruction these two were involved in... Merryland Apr 2016 #126
LOL. That little blip on the radar. Skwmom Apr 2016 #136
Smear= facts artislife Apr 2016 #104
So that's how you dismiss uncomfortable truths. They're all "talking points" to you. Elmer S. E. Dump Apr 2016 #165
What exactly did she sell? Her time? Her oratory skills? LonePirate Apr 2016 #76
A Clinton surrogate the other day was almost giddy about how Bernie had rounded up the millennials Skwmom Apr 2016 #13
The Millennials Will Remember How Their Votes Were Suppressed In The Primaries And.... global1 Apr 2016 #33
At my Part 2 of WA caucus yesterday artislife Apr 2016 #105
Your plan goes out da winder when Bernie wind NY Elmer S. E. Dump Apr 2016 #133
One - It's Not My Plan - It Is My Guess Of What Would Happen If Hillary Wins The Nomination..... global1 Apr 2016 #148
I haven't seen a single Millennial "warming up" to Hillary. merrily Apr 2016 #62
I'm glad to hear that they are frightened of Ted Cruz. StevieM Apr 2016 #135
Not really Avalon Sparks Apr 2016 #162
"LIKE" Clinton? Ooh that's rich. cherokeeprogressive Apr 2016 #18
Once they start bringing out all the women to discuss the role of Bill and Hillary I am sure those Skwmom Apr 2016 #21
The beatings will continue until morale improves. Karmadillo Apr 2016 #20
nope, they'll sit it the fuck out. nt retrowire Apr 2016 #22
No. I for one will never even trust her, let alone like her. eom Betty Karlson Apr 2016 #23
That's some funny shit right there!! 99Forever Apr 2016 #27
Not the millennials at my house. djean111 Apr 2016 #29
I agree... Human101948 Apr 2016 #38
Hillary and Bernie agree on 90 percent of issues oberliner Apr 2016 #31
Like I am going to learn to love war and fracking and the TPP? Oh, please. I will not. djean111 Apr 2016 #63
Have you heard the GOP platform lately? oberliner Apr 2016 #74
If you trust Hillary on all of those issues, I fear you are sadly mistaken. djean111 Apr 2016 #78
She is on the opposite side of the Republicans on all of those issues oberliner Apr 2016 #121
We must process things very differently - I feel she is the same as the GOP in many positions. djean111 Apr 2016 #125
Bernie has more insights into this than either of us oberliner Apr 2016 #128
They do not agree on war and fracking and the TPP and college costs and health care. djean111 Apr 2016 #131
Have you heard the Green party platform lately? artislife Apr 2016 #106
I understand why people would vote for the Green Party oberliner Apr 2016 #122
Maybe, but if elected Cassiopeia Apr 2016 #67
Not true oberliner Apr 2016 #77
In that situation I would only trust her to not appoint Cassiopeia Apr 2016 #87
We have a Dem in the White House now artislife Apr 2016 #107
He is the reason we have a Justice Sotomayor and a Justice Kagan oberliner Apr 2016 #120
Yes he is . artislife Apr 2016 #144
It would be pretty unprecedented for them to not vote for the next 4 years oberliner Apr 2016 #146
It is a whole new world artislife Apr 2016 #150
They are not even close. n/t Skwmom Apr 2016 #158
"on 90 percent of the issues, Sanders and Clinton are on the same page." oberliner Apr 2016 #160
Millenials are mostly Independants. HooptieWagon Apr 2016 #37
I think it's funny you believe a Third Way corporatist platform outweighs Obama in attracting them. LonePirate Apr 2016 #82
A great many Obama voters expected him to be not quite so corporatist. HooptieWagon Apr 2016 #92
I can't trust anyone's word if they think the term "Third Way" resonates with most Millennials. LonePirate Apr 2016 #94
Yes, most millenials don't know what Third Way is.... HooptieWagon Apr 2016 #110
Most Independents are more moderate than core Sanders supporters. hack89 Apr 2016 #113
Independant moderates are a myth. HooptieWagon Apr 2016 #115
But most independents actually have a party preference hack89 Apr 2016 #118
Most Independants are NPA. HooptieWagon Apr 2016 #145
BWAHAHAH FreakinDJ Apr 2016 #39
I heard lots of conversations while waiting in line to get into Hillary's Los Angeles R B Garr Apr 2016 #40
Trumps ahead in the popular vote Avalon Sparks Apr 2016 #183
lol, Clinton leads all in the popular vote. She's about 1 MILLION over Trump. R B Garr Apr 2016 #185
So what Avalon Sparks Apr 2016 #186
No, I got your point, which is to denigrate Hillary R B Garr Apr 2016 #188
That is beyond insulting ky_dem Apr 2016 #187
Awww. Some millennials haven't fallen in line for Bernie. R B Garr Apr 2016 #190
You absolutely did insult us ky_dem Apr 2016 #193
"Not every millennial is......" R B Garr Apr 2016 #194
Not bloody likely. VulgarPoet Apr 2016 #41
"They'd have to lobotomize my ass"? Zorro Apr 2016 #70
Have you never heard someone speak AAVE before VulgarPoet Apr 2016 #72
I have no idea what AAVE is Zorro Apr 2016 #75
you realize linguistic prescriptivism is a form of classism and racism ky_dem Apr 2016 #189
No I didn't realize that Zorro Apr 2016 #195
Wait just a doggone minute. . . .think this through . . . . . pdsimdars Apr 2016 #49
Otherwise, the only question is how low will they go. Skwmom Apr 2016 #56
I don't think so! Cobalt Violet Apr 2016 #55
Bush's and Clinton's have been running things for most of their lives Cassiopeia Apr 2016 #58
Millenials jmousso75 Apr 2016 #61
Will boomers? k8conant Apr 2016 #65
This Boomer will not. War, fracking, the TPP. Nope. djean111 Apr 2016 #80
+two boomers polichick Apr 2016 #102
I'm seeing some desperate Hillary supporters wanting Phlem Apr 2016 #73
Yeah, not this millennial. I don't trust corrupt politicians or liars. nt RepubliCON-Watch Apr 2016 #79
Their arrogance is unending... Skwmom Apr 2016 #90
So apparently in addition to not doing research, millennials have bad memories BernieforPres2016 Apr 2016 #85
Not. Going. To. Happen! onecaliberal Apr 2016 #99
No they won't, sorry. Ain't never gonna happen. Avalux Apr 2016 #101
Only if they are able to disregard the damage done to their noses. Tierra_y_Libertad Apr 2016 #108
At this point in CA we are getting many millennials to register to vote!! HughLefty1 Apr 2016 #109
Yeeeah -- nope. Arugula Latte Apr 2016 #117
What's really going to be interesting, is if they are still going to call us sexist Joob Apr 2016 #138
Why on earth would Millennials learn to like her? Blue_In_AK Apr 2016 #139
Millennials will never support Hillary pinebox Apr 2016 #140
Not the two that I raised. kcass1954 Apr 2016 #143
Hillary's only hope is if we hold our noses as we approach the voting booth and chant Vinca Apr 2016 #149
Just as soon as hell freezes. onecaliberal Apr 2016 #151
I've got two voting millennials in my family ridgenvalley Apr 2016 #152
Wishful thinking Carolina Apr 2016 #153
Whatever happens, come the general election... malokvale77 Apr 2016 #155
That Joe is a funny guy. bigwillq Apr 2016 #157
I agree with this. When I started the school year in Sept, almost everyone was pro-Sanders, now... anotherproletariat Apr 2016 #159
Somethings are just too obvious. Skwmom Apr 2016 #164
You need to demand a tuition refund. N/t azmom Apr 2016 #166
None that I know of. They really do not like war and fracking and the TPP, ya know. djean111 Apr 2016 #177
I doubt that Marrah_G Apr 2016 #172
They wont like her MadBadger Apr 2016 #173
Exactly RandySF Apr 2016 #176
Joe is politically bipolar. He rails on Hillary for email scandal and for stealing elections CoffeeCat Apr 2016 #178
It wasn't Joe. It was one of the people on the show. Skwmom Apr 2016 #180
Hillary is an introvert, and introverts take a while to get to know. Once people BreakfastClub Apr 2016 #184
I think most Millennials will sit at home if there is not a candidate who excites them ky_dem Apr 2016 #191
That's what her campaign is banking on Matariki Apr 2016 #192
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