2016 Postmortem

djean111

(14,255 posts)

66. And we got right back in, in other places.

Reply to BernieforPres2016 (Reply #64)

Mon May 2, 2016, 09:46 AM

May 2016

Also - the children of the rich and connected will always be safe. Jobs in offices, officers safely removed from actual battle situations.

I am not trying to shoot down your idea so much as saying that - I am 70. I have seen this roll out before. The rich always get richer, the poor get poorer, and the rich and connected are insulated. And the poor people die.

I think we are pretty far gone, really. Partly because this country is so big, so many people are disconnected from other people, and the media makes sure we are uninformed. And the MIC is giving weapons and training to police departments for a reason. Right now, a lot of police seem to think it is okay to shoot and kill at will.

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Since Hillary supporters appear to be quite confident right now, perhaps I could finally get [View all] Fast Walker 52 May 2016 OP

All I can think is, because it is other peoples' children and families who get killed. djean111 May 2016 #1

I dont rationalize it away and neither do my friends. Baobab May 2016 #171

In the same manner you rationalize Sanders war mongering. Thinkingabout May 2016 #2

+1000 bigtree May 2016 #3

Wow! You really believe that, don't you? dchill May 2016 #82

Last time I checked, Sanders wasn't an isolationist. brooklynite May 2016 #103

I'm not an isolationist, but I am not a hawk either. These are not mutually exclusive. Vattel May 2016 #135

people must rationalize the abhorrent, irrational, and self-deception to maintain self-respect. Kip Humphrey May 2016 #130

So, why do people do that with Sanders military votes and record? seabeyond May 2016 #140

You really need some work on your snappy rejoinders. dchill May 2016 #161

Asking you to acknowledge Sanders military record as you all pretend it doesn't exist is weak? Lol seabeyond May 2016 #163

He voted to support troops that were sent for the war he voted against. libdem4life May 2016 #184

He also voted a slow withdrawal. Voted for the start of Bush plan. seabeyond May 2016 #185

...and ... libdem4life May 2016 #188

No fuckin' shit. I get that. You do not. seabeyond May 2016 #189

LOL. pnwmom May 2016 #4

What war mongering was that? Human101948 May 2016 #8

they have nothing tk2kewl May 2016 #23

Try Somalia, Libya, Yuogoslavia, Kosovo puffy socks May 2016 #71

No matter how hard you try you cannot equate Bernie's attitude regarding war and peace to this: tk2kewl May 2016 #73

Ohhhh snap! Silver_Witch May 2016 #77

Just because nothing can burst your bubble doesnt make Bernie not more hawkish than Hilllary. puffy socks May 2016 #78

HE VOTED FOR AFGHANISTAN WAR AND HJ RES 64 TOO JaneyVee May 2016 #175

WTH do you think they are building those F-35's for???? workinclasszero May 2016 #81

Boom. Firebrand Gary May 2016 #12

"Boom"? That was nonsensical. /nt Marr May 2016 #122

It's about all they have...I've noticed and commented on the trend. n/t libdem4life May 2016 #186

yep that was the last sound 10's of thousands of Iraqi children heard after she voted azurnoir May 2016 #165

This bullshit. seabeyond May 2016 #187

Which is what? Dawgs May 2016 #18

You know: "+1000", "Boom", and "LOL" lagomorph777 May 2016 #55

Nailed it. Octafish May 2016 #68

Exactamundo Ned_Devine May 2016 #179

"Mom, he's doing it, too!" stone space May 2016 #59

There difference is, using it as an attack on another, declaring he is not doing it too. You have seabeyond May 2016 #70

I would have preferred if post #2 had at least linked to the rationalization in question. stone space May 2016 #79

Kosovo War, Afghanistan, Sanders supported only a gradual withdrawal from Iraq seabeyond May 2016 #101

That's all fine and dandy, but it still doesn't tell me... stone space May 2016 #107

This is the point. Sanders military vote is right with the rest. As you all continue to pound us seabeyond May 2016 #114

Where have I done this? stone space May 2016 #119

You have been giving the information on his military voting, why continue in this vain? seabeyond May 2016 #128

Nobody seems willing to answer. stone space May 2016 #139

What? You have been answered different ways different times and STILL ignore the answers you receive seabeyond May 2016 #143

I've gotten only repeated refusals to answer. stone space May 2016 #145

I am done. You had others research the votes and the reasoning and you continue. Has to be a game seabeyond May 2016 #147

Funny! Especially when hawkishness is given as the reason a person won't support a candidate puffy socks May 2016 #72

I don't even know what rationalization post #2 is expressing agreement with. stone space May 2016 #83

Bernie Sanders is as hawkish as Dick Cheney. Aerows May 2016 #155

Here's your back up. A Liberal site. puffy socks May 2016 #156

No. Aerows May 2016 #159

Exactly. One time he didn't vote for. Otherwise, leading up, after and every other military, he has seabeyond May 2016 #69

Yes and they try to paint Hillary as a war monger, she has lots to catch up to pass him on Thinkingabout May 2016 #138

He will always be moving the goal post, while using issues as weapons that he is just as much a seabeyond May 2016 #162

Do you have a link to the specific rationalization that you are agreeing with, here? stone space May 2016 #80

Are you familiar with Sanders record? Thinkingabout May 2016 #92

I haven't been following his day-to-day activities over the years. stone space May 2016 #94

Maybe you could do some research and then will know the person you are willing to defend. Thinkingabout May 2016 #95

Who have I defended? stone space May 2016 #97

OK, don't defend Sanders, if you want to know how Sanders rationalized going into Afghanistan then Thinkingabout May 2016 #99

I want to know how YOU rationalize it in your post #2. stone space May 2016 #100

All one needs do is google Sanders military vote and positions. seabeyond May 2016 #104

Bernie didn't write post #2, and I'm sure that he doesn't speak for the author. stone space May 2016 #105

Did you ask the poster in the OP what their rationalization meant? Thinkingabout May 2016 #109

No, I did not. stone space May 2016 #125

Your point, your gotcha, whatever, makes no sense. seabeyond May 2016 #116

There is no "gotcha". I just asked what rationalization is being supported. stone space May 2016 #121

Creating Sanders of the opposite of Clinton on military despite his own record would be the seabeyond May 2016 #127

What needs to be rationalized about this post? Thinkingabout May 2016 #108

Does the author of the OP speak for you? stone space May 2016 #126

Is there some reason you continue with this obtuseness instead of actually address the answers you seabeyond May 2016 #129

Nobody has given an answer. stone space May 2016 #137

Too odd. This is too over the top odd for me. seabeyond May 2016 #144

lol, talk about a false equivalency Vattel May 2016 #132

No. It is not. Sanders sits witht he rest in ALL votes and support except one. He voted seabeyond May 2016 #146

Seriously? Couldn't you have at least left out the nonsense about the F-35? Vattel May 2016 #153

Seriously? They have known for years. You ignored the rest about Sanders record on Military vote. seabeyond May 2016 #157

Where to begin? Vattel May 2016 #160

Less hawkish? That is a stretch and only because of one vote. Take the votes Clinton didn't make seabeyond May 2016 #164

It goes way beyond one vote. Vattel May 2016 #167

Clinton supported a possibility if certain actions were met first. Why not say it the way it is? seabeyond May 2016 #169

Clinton authorized Bush Vattel May 2016 #172

Sanders authorized in a greater way, just prior. But then, I get the nuance and am not an ass seabeyond May 2016 #173

Anyone who thinks the ILA authorized an invasion is an ass or perhaps just ignorant. Vattel May 2016 #176

Politician all the way.... seabeyond May 2016 #166

No, just someone with common sense Vattel May 2016 #168

Ha hahaha. Lol. That actually got an out loud laugh. You guys are an hoot. Politician, all the way. seabeyond May 2016 #170

Okay genius, explain why he shouldn't get the F35 built in Vermont Vattel May 2016 #174

Because, he thinks it is wrong. OOOOoooops, except when he is being a politician, genius. seabeyond May 2016 #178

No, he thinks it is right to finish it. He thinks it was wrong to start it. Vattel May 2016 #180

He was in a safe position a month prior to 2002 vote. That is all. He is a politician. seabeyond May 2016 #183

The world is a hotbed for hate and violence. FarPoint May 2016 #5

Look no further than her role model Henry Kissenger who said B Calm May 2016 #6

It would be an advantage to Sanders to have Kissenger advise him on Thinkingabout May 2016 #11

I prefer no foreign policy experience to anything Henry Kissenger B Calm May 2016 #19

He is running for president not mayor of Burlington, he apparently thinks he can pick and Thinkingabout May 2016 #25

One day years from now someone will pull that video of Obama and Boehner... fun n serious May 2016 #27

LOL B Calm May 2016 #32

There you go.. fun n serious May 2016 #34

Tell Hillary you're ashamed. B Calm May 2016 #42

Calm down. fun n serious May 2016 #47

Hillary loves Kissenger so B Calm May 2016 #53

Hillary loves YOU too, nt fun n serious May 2016 #54

She would love my vote, that's about it. B Calm May 2016 #56

Shark Jump alert!!! Darb May 2016 #45

I don't think that was the actual term, maybe mentor? pdsimdars May 2016 #85

It's basically only poor people who serve in the US military. Scuba May 2016 #7

I know many young people who serve in the military. peace13 May 2016 #37

The plural of "anectdote" isn't "data." Scuba May 2016 #49

She is not a war monger. That is your invention. Buzz Clik May 2016 #9

I think you misunderstand about hides. Dustlawyer May 2016 #13

Explain to me about the hides. Buzz Clik May 2016 #16

I am saying that you could always respond to posts, you just don't have to be ugly about it. Dustlawyer May 2016 #21

Ugly like this OP? Thinkingabout May 2016 #26

By ugly you mean pointing out nose-cuttery? Darb May 2016 #46

No, YOU don't understand. Bernie fans hide facts and opinions they don't like. Lil Missy May 2016 #22

You could always push back, no one stopped you Duckhunter935 May 2016 #67

She not only voted for the Iraq war--she proseletyzed for it eridani May 2016 #194

The US as a whole is very militant gollygee May 2016 #10

Especially the F-35 program, big cost over runs, currently over a trillion Thinkingabout May 2016 #15

Yet this is the most peaceful era in modern history. Odd, isn't it? randome May 2016 #65

By what standard? Xithras May 2016 #96

Bernie has been more of a part of the US government longer than Hillary has and yet, his pdsimdars May 2016 #86

The government in general gollygee May 2016 #89

When you have supported EVERY war. . . .welll, that kind of makes you a warmonger. pdsimdars May 2016 #120

We have a different perspective on this gollygee May 2016 #142

This isn't a philosophical nuance to me. . . pdsimdars May 2016 #148

She was opposed to going to war in Iran in 2007 gollygee May 2016 #150

She's not a war monger. You extrapolate facts to a ridiculous exponential. Might as well Lil Missy May 2016 #14

+1 Buzz Clik May 2016 #17

Lil Missy, I like your way with words...LOL! Surya Gayatri May 2016 #24

Anyone who plays scrabble can put together the double point words. notadmblnd May 2016 #35

Ah, scrabble is one thing...and then there's urban poetry like this: Surya Gayatri May 2016 #48

An old cliche is poetry? notadmblnd May 2016 #61

Perfectly stated. nt JoePhilly May 2016 #41

K&R redstateblues May 2016 #43

Kissinger girl kgnu_fan May 2016 #20

You can say this, Sanders without a foreign policy would be well served to be a Thinkingabout May 2016 #28

Castro boy. fun n serious May 2016 #29

Some cheap responses/comments here show ignorance of history... sigh kgnu_fan May 2016 #30

They work so hard NOT to know who they want as their candidate. It makes NO SENSE!!! pdsimdars May 2016 #87

That is why I tend to suspect them as "intruders" who spread propaganda. kgnu_fan May 2016 #154

How do you rationalize Sanders vote against the Brady Bill? leftofcool May 2016 #31

What was the portion of the bill that he disagreed with? peace13 May 2016 #40

He said the states can handle the state level data which is probably true aikoaiko May 2016 #50

There are many who strain at a gnat and swallow a camel. pdsimdars May 2016 #88

You don't have any problem with Hillary saying we will "never, ever" have single payer healthcare? BernieforPres2016 May 2016 #33

+1 dreamnightwind May 2016 #76

The Democrats stance on foreign policy directly affects their domestic policy. liberal_at_heart May 2016 #36

I wonder if the silence is due to my huge ignore list hereforthevoting May 2016 #38

Best ways I can think of to stop war mongering BernieforPres2016 May 2016 #39

That would only work - I assume you think the country would rise up against war - if our government djean111 May 2016 #62

If people rising up against the government in mass doesn't get us anything BernieforPres2016 May 2016 #64

And we got right back in, in other places. djean111 May 2016 #66

I think we're probably too far gone BernieforPres2016 May 2016 #75

I heard we once had a law or FDR wanted a law or something pdsimdars May 2016 #90

What's next? Vote for Trump to stop war mongering? stone space May 2016 #158

Nothing to rationalize. She's not a war-monger. JoePhilly May 2016 #44

Well said. And yes, the drone use is never mentioned by Sanders supporters. randome May 2016 #57

I've heard a few of them say ... JoePhilly May 2016 #58

Isn't it how you define "war-monger"? Fast Walker 52 May 2016 #111

A warmonger would be calling for boots on the ground all over the ME. JoePhilly May 2016 #152

Bernie voted multiple times to say Saddam needed to be overthrown... CrowCityDem May 2016 #51

Also, those here who are not trolls all voted for Kerry. And they never questioned his vote. Squinch May 2016 #182

I fucking well did question his vote, and voted for hime because Bush was much worse. n/t eridani May 2016 #195

Yup. And how many posts did you write in which you called him a murderer during his candidacy? Squinch May 2016 #196

More of a coward than a murderer. Actually, the same goes for Clinton eridani May 2016 #197

I'll take that to mean that you wrote zero such posts. Squinch May 2016 #198

Because she said, "Whoopsie. My bad." when it was no longer politically convenient to be in Iraq. aikoaiko May 2016 #52

It is profitable to her Bettie May 2016 #60

Prove it fun n serious May 2016 #74

I rather have some one in the WH NOT hestitant to use force...and why a paficist won't be... beachbum bob May 2016 #63

You can't rationalize it away, you can only accept it, even support it. bjo59 May 2016 #84

Or an answer to the question below. . . No one has ever given a measured resaponse. pdsimdars May 2016 #91

This message was self-deleted by its author potisok May 2016 #131

Jeffery Sachs calls her a warmonger. I don't. LuvLoogie May 2016 #93

well, lots of other people call her that too. It's not a rare view of her. Fast Walker 52 May 2016 #112

She voted for the war in Iraq. A lot of people did tonyt53 May 2016 #98

Erect scary bogeymen, wave flag, cheer the troops, call it "defense" = Hillary's diplomacy. Tierra_y_Libertad May 2016 #102

The same way most of the posters who just can't forgive "her", managed to forgive or excuse JTFrog May 2016 #106

I don't. I'm for Bernie but I will support Hillary in the GE. apnu May 2016 #110

"ow do you rationalize away her war-mongering" Tarc May 2016 #113

I see you're in denial too Fast Walker 52 May 2016 #117

I'm not the one asking loaded questions, bro Tarc May 2016 #118

The problem is she thinks war is necessary a lot more than other people do. Fast Walker 52 May 2016 #123

Not nearly enough millions to, y'know, win an election though, eh? Tarc May 2016 #124

OK, so basically the responses I see are: either she's not really a war-monger, Fast Walker 52 May 2016 #115

Both candidates support intervention, the new word for war. Jackie Wilson Said May 2016 #133

Not only... deathrind May 2016 #134

Fast Walker, the replies to your post are not surprising. Vattel May 2016 #136

We're asking members of a personality cult to objectively assess the personality herself. Maedhros May 2016 #141

yep Vattel May 2016 #151

What war-mongering? What wars has she been the leading voice for The Second Stone May 2016 #149

The same way you use casuistry's to justify other abhorrent actions . orpupilofnature57 May 2016 #177

Choosing to ignore ... NanceGreggs May 2016 #181

I can't rationalize voting for a candidate under current FBI Investigations. nt silvershadow May 2016 #190

I don't think shes a warmonger jack_krass May 2016 #191

well, I can see that... she's basically amoral, in other words Fast Walker 52 May 2016 #192

Same on the gun and other issues... jack_krass May 2016 #200

When did you stop beating your spouse? stevenleser May 2016 #193

Equating Sanders votes to fund existing troops in the field with HRC's carte blanche to GW is absurd EndElectoral May 2016 #199