2016 Postmortem

senz

(11,945 posts)

164. Hm. Something's wrong with the system.

Tue May 3, 2016, 12:51 PM

May 2016

I can understand what you're saying.

Something has gone very wrong.

When ossified Party officials can decide way in advance whom they will support in the primary and not leave the process completely open and available to party members who prefer a different candidate, then the party is thwarting its members. That not only runs counter to the principles on which this country was founded, but it is also destined to kill the party. It's like death by strangulation.

Our party was overtaken by Blue Dog Dems years ago and now it has left no room for any but the official party line. Bernie Sanders is everything Democrats used to be and Hillary is everything Republicans used to be. The genuine liberal/progressive voice -- the American left, itself -- has been pushed out of the process.

Something's gotta give. It's big, and it's coming.

Edit history

Please sign in to view edit histories.

312 replies

= new reply since forum marked as read

Highlight:

Ok then, Let's spell it out for Hillary "Democrats" [View all] berni_mccoy May 2016 OP

This Revolt Has Been Building For Years - The DWS, DNC, DLC, Third-Way Has Only Themselves To Blame cantbeserious May 2016 #1

Yeah! They can only blame themselves for winning... Buzz Clik May 2016 #4

Winning? Scuba May 2016 #37

Have you spoken with her? Buzz Clik May 2016 #48

No answer to my question? Not surprising. Scuba May 2016 #49

I don't vote for her. If you hate her so fucking much, call her on the phone. Buzz Clik May 2016 #51

I don't hate her, but her past actions and her policies leave me cold. Scuba May 2016 #63

Fine. If you choose to take no direct action, then quit expecting me/us to justify what she does. Buzz Clik May 2016 #66

No one can justify what she does. Scuba May 2016 #67

And it is so much fun complaining! Buzz Clik May 2016 #69

Feel free to put me on ignore. Scuba May 2016 #70

Ok... one last comment, but this is relatively important. Buzz Clik May 2016 #71

Mine has every Clinton supporter... JimDandy May 2016 #113

Can we assume that your ignore list just grew by one? Buzz Clik May 2016 #115

Well no wonder you think you are majority in the Party. GulfCoast66 May 2016 #257

Its obvious you never been in IRC Chat Room... Rockyj May 2016 #256

You haven't a clue. Buzz Clik May 2016 #260

The chances of speaking with DWS directly on the phone are very slim indeed. At best Cal33 May 2016 #139

We lost all those seats leftynyc May 2016 #79

And wny did "so many on the left" stay home? Scuba May 2016 #80

Bullshit leftynyc May 2016 #86

Give people a reason to vote and they will. Offer a pale imitation of the other party ... Scuba May 2016 #87

Yawn leftynyc May 2016 #89

Now blaming the young for ponies nadinbrzezinski May 2016 #93

None ever asked for ponies, that's just a meme from the right-wing of the Democratic Party. Scuba May 2016 #96

And if the young got off their asses leftynyc May 2016 #98

If it isn't rocket science BlindTiresias May 2016 #135

Don't put the onus on anyone leftynyc May 2016 #138

Interesting mechanics BlindTiresias May 2016 #142

No - I'm from the leftynyc May 2016 #146

Not following your argument. BlindTiresias May 2016 #149

Then you're not understanding leftynyc May 2016 #153

Isn't that what Sanders is trying to do? BlindTiresias May 2016 #154

So your answer is to leftynyc May 2016 #157

I'm trying to explain the processes involved. BlindTiresias May 2016 #162

"What exactly has the establishment done to Bernie supporters? Thrown them out of the party?" Dragonfli May 2016 #266

It was Bernie's responsibility to educate his voters WhiteTara May 2016 #185

My argument is simply leftynyc May 2016 #272

Oh, so you are an arrogant TM99 May 2016 #249

I have zero leftynyc May 2016 #278

Yeah, I am not surprised. TM99 May 2016 #287

Bull, that's exactly what they're doing with Hillary notadmblnd May 2016 #277

Alas that is why they are using the same memes nadinbrzezinski May 2016 #105

Keeping cons out of positions of power is voting for something Ohioblue22 May 2016 #107

You mean like Charlie Christ? Scuba May 2016 #112

Is he a republicon? Ohioblue22 May 2016 #159

He was, until DWS recruited him to run for governor of Florida as a Democrat. Scuba May 2016 #173

Iirc he left the GOP he wasn't co-opted Ohioblue22 May 2016 #245

No, the GOP left him but DWS took him in and ran him as a Democrat. That's a betrayal ... Scuba May 2016 #246

I vote in all the elections, big and small artislife May 2016 #94

... artislife May 2016 #95

I have no idea how old you are leftynyc May 2016 #97

Ridiculous backwards logic Rilgin May 2016 #184

And here's the problem leftynyc May 2016 #219

Absolutely made up history. Rilgin May 2016 #248

His RECORD showed leftynyc May 2016 #271

What happenned to the the concept of evolution so dear to Hillary? Rilgin May 2016 #288

^^^This. artislife May 2016 #240

We are off our asses artislife May 2016 #239

Me too, all elections are important Duckhunter935 May 2016 #160

Me too. Patty lost me when she endorsed Hillary. Tierra_y_Libertad May 2016 #284

And voted for the TPP. nt artislife May 2016 #285

It's because of the party's establishment connections that do not care about the Average bkkyosemite May 2016 #104

LOL leftynyc May 2016 #126

The DNC's establishment has done nothing for the Average American they care only about bkkyosemite May 2016 #212

Who exactly are 'the groups who stay home'? Marr May 2016 #122

18-29 year olds leftynyc May 2016 #128

Well, young people don't respond to fear tactics the way old people do. Marr May 2016 #132

What a bunch of crap leftynyc May 2016 #136

You're the one making excuses, not me. Marr May 2016 #140

And sitting on your asses leftynyc May 2016 #143

I think we have all seen what happens to people who defy the orthodoxy BlindTiresias May 2016 #147

What has happened? leftynyc May 2016 #161

Well, for a small example. BlindTiresias May 2016 #163

You know, I'm not one of these young people you seem to hate so much. Marr May 2016 #158

Sigh leftynyc May 2016 #165

It comes off as hate to me too BlindTiresias May 2016 #167

I save my hate for those leftynyc May 2016 #170

Nah, you are projecting something ugly nadinbrzezinski May 2016 #174

For the record, I'm a woman leftynyc May 2016 #176

What part of the party does not want them except to shut up nadinbrzezinski May 2016 #178

I'm sorry you think leftynyc May 2016 #213

Oh they may try nadinbrzezinski May 2016 #220

What the fuck do you care leftynyc May 2016 #222

You call voters names nadinbrzezinski May 2016 #224

That you care one whit leftynyc May 2016 #225

Actually I do not care what you specifically do nadinbrzezinski May 2016 #229

Nadin, check out this link, I think you will be among those that understand it. Dragonfli May 2016 #267

Thanks. So true nadinbrzezinski May 2016 #274

Its an expression BlindTiresias May 2016 #179

If they're the most active leftynyc May 2016 #215

Not necessarily true BlindTiresias May 2016 #250

I'm not complaining BlindTiresias May 2016 #182

Uh-huh. Marr May 2016 #169

Spare me the bullshit leftynyc May 2016 #172

As a matter of fact, they did more than you describe. Marr May 2016 #180

That's great. Most the people I see working elections WhiteTara May 2016 #188

That is became the youth are not doing this besides you nadinbrzezinski May 2016 #197

Shrug leftynyc May 2016 #216

Great. Marr May 2016 #237

I don't do the martyr routine leftynyc May 2016 #270

I'm 31 BlindTiresias May 2016 #166

I can imagine. Marr May 2016 #175

No they are basically correct BlindTiresias May 2016 #145

More crap excuses leftynyc May 2016 #148

Uh, people did BlindTiresias May 2016 #150

The laziness is in your line of reasoning. frylock May 2016 #200

There it is. -none May 2016 #210

I voted for my dem senator during the midterms trudyco May 2016 #294

Maybe it's because Andy823 May 2016 #116

This year your party is doing that and doing a great job at it nadinbrzezinski May 2016 #181

Ah so inspiring blame the left for not showing up nadinbrzezinski May 2016 #83

I'm waiting for one leftynyc May 2016 #88

DWS did and has been posted a few times nadinbrzezinski May 2016 #90

So you can't leftynyc May 2016 #91

It has been posted nadinbrzezinski May 2016 #92

Then you should have no problem leftynyc May 2016 #99

You can use the google I ain't playing whatever game you are playing nadinbrzezinski May 2016 #101

I can't find it leftynyc May 2016 #102

Your google search skills are your issue nadinbrzezinski May 2016 #103

I hope your candidate, Bernie Sanders, has a great showing today. zappaman May 2016 #198

Nadin doesn't endorse candidates, everybody knows this, she does critique certain tactics and idiocy Dragonfli May 2016 #268

You can't support your claim. bvar22 May 2016 #218

Uninspiring candidates breed contempt timmymoff May 2016 #253

False. I'm so fucking tired of this lie you conservadems like to trot out LondonReign2 May 2016 #289

Paleeze! You shit on Leftists for 30 years and expect them to vote for you? Peace Patriot May 2016 #306

Pathetic dodge. BlindTiresias May 2016 #131

Huh? Now we have to hunt down these losers libdem4life May 2016 #202

Again the answer is... puffy socks May 2016 #189

... Scuba May 2016 #190

The Dems DID fight for us! puffy socks May 2016 #193

Really? What did the 2009 Congress do for voting rights and election integrity? Scuba May 2016 #209

Oh I see puffy socks May 2016 #214

In 2009, Democrats in DC had an opportunity to protect our elections and voting rights. Scuba May 2016 #217

Nice attempt at pidgeon holing. puffy socks May 2016 #233

But it didn't pass, despite Dems having a super-majority in the Senate in 2009 with ... Scuba May 2016 #235

False. More conservadem lies LondonReign2 May 2016 #291

yeah right... puffy socks May 2016 #292

Your link does not make your lie true LondonReign2 May 2016 #298

Sorry puffy socks May 2016 #299

You continue to lie in the face of the data LondonReign2 May 2016 #300

That's why I pulled out the pew research puffy socks May 2016 #302

Nope LondonReign2 May 2016 #303

Here you go, honey... puffy socks May 2016 #304

Well pumpkin, you don't seem to understand data LondonReign2 May 2016 #305

. Dragonfli May 2016 #269

Exactly! Silver_Witch May 2016 #301

Lol, that is funny... northernsouthern May 2016 #251

They lose, over and over again, DWS and the others still keep their cushy jobs. leveymg May 2016 #47

Crony Establishment Capitalism cantbeserious May 2016 #52

^^^ This ^^^ senz May 2016 #117

I have considered alternative reasons they have kept DWS in power. None of them good. Enthusiast May 2016 #273

DWS didn't say what you said she said. You keep making stuff up. Renew Deal May 2016 #2

+1 Buzz Clik May 2016 #5

Stick your head in the sand berni_mccoy May 2016 #6

Tell the truth Renew Deal May 2016 #9

Prove me wrong berni_mccoy May 2016 #14

Prove your point Renew Deal May 2016 #19

I did. You have countered with nothing but empty statements that I'm wrong berni_mccoy May 2016 #22

No you didn't. You made up that quote. Renew Deal May 2016 #24

Her actual words are worse. Of course I paraphrased but for those interested berni_mccoy May 2016 #29

Close enough Renew Deal May 2016 #35

Not this Democrat. Why would either party not what to include and to attract independent voters ? CentralMass May 2016 #38

Yep she said as the leader of the DNC that if it were up to her berni_mccoy May 2016 #40

You just acknowledged she didn't say that and now you're saying it again? Renew Deal May 2016 #45

If it were up to her, she'd exclude people she needs and wants. Qutzupalotl May 2016 #223

From Primaries. nt WhiteTara May 2016 #186

Berni McCoy is not making it up, Renew... pacalo May 2016 #264

Logical Fallacy Dem2 May 2016 #81

Stick your head in the sand. stonecutter357 May 2016 #111

She said she didn't need independents picking the Democratic nominee Kelvin Mace May 2016 #57

The OP is mentally unhinged and a huge liar The Second Stone May 2016 #242

The "Democratic" candidate for the "Democrats" is losing by 300 delegates. Buzz Clik May 2016 #3

Deny the reality of the real problem at your own peril berni_mccoy May 2016 #8

Your concern is duly noted Renew Deal May 2016 #11

.. Buzz Clik May 2016 #12

Time to stop the hypotheticals that have no basis in reality. NCTraveler May 2016 #7

Reality is Hillary is the most unfavorable candidate in history berni_mccoy May 2016 #10

I'm glad you like her so much Renew Deal May 2016 #13

Nice deflection. Nt NCTraveler May 2016 #15

Finally an admission you're wrong berni_mccoy May 2016 #18

I did no such thing. NCTraveler May 2016 #28

When your response is to say "DEFLECTION!!1!1" berni_mccoy May 2016 #30

You went full on deflection. NCTraveler May 2016 #32

I mentioned her unfavorability in my OP and I backed it up berni_mccoy May 2016 #41

Do the polls you love so much show her beating Trump? nt. NCTraveler May 2016 #46

You called her the most leftynyc May 2016 #84

That's not true either redstateblues May 2016 #64

Look at the argument, NCTraveler, though... it is about who can best defeat tRump, can you address JudyM May 2016 #75

I am sure you know it is expected that SBS unfavorables will plunge once anyone runs negative.... bettyellen May 2016 #183

That is not the issue... same as anyone, but his negatives are minuscule in relation to hers. JudyM May 2016 #187

What the entire electorate will see as SBS's negatives have not been put out there. The better bettyellen May 2016 #192

Most of her margin over him is, like it or not, as a practical matter, not going to help in the GE. JudyM May 2016 #194

She is winning the swing states. He is winning tiny empty red states- and that means nothing. bettyellen May 2016 #195

Don't worry...Clinton supporters say they have this coyote May 2016 #16

unfortuantly that's what it will take. Cobalt Violet May 2016 #58

Since we don't have a national election, what States will she lose? brooklynite May 2016 #17

I guess I'd say that anything that isn't in the "Solid D" column would be considered at some risk... thesquanderer May 2016 #309

Cook Political: the people that gave us "The Numbers Favor Hillary Clinton Over Trump" brooklynite May 2016 #311

Correct. So what's the issue? thesquanderer May 2016 #312

Quick! Get the smelling salts! NurseJackie May 2016 #20

How can anyone argue with that? She will be shredded yourpaljoey May 2016 #21

How about with the truth. The quote is made up. Renew Deal May 2016 #25

What were your hopes for posting this? Firebrand Gary May 2016 #23

But we're supposed to pick thup less popular second place guy. Renew Deal May 2016 #26

Bernie can win all those voting blocs with time and exposure. Ed Suspicious May 2016 #31

He's had both and it's not happening. Renew Deal May 2016 #36

Nice try. Firebrand Gary May 2016 #39

Bernie got less votes than Trump redstateblues May 2016 #65

So more people are coming out to vote for Republicans, specifically, Trump. frylock May 2016 #203

You don't think that Democrats would vote for Bernie if he wins the nomination? dana_b May 2016 #109

They are so blind they seem to have lost the ability to think. pdsimdars May 2016 #137

Bernie's skeletons. Such as? eom mikehiggins May 2016 #177

We revealed the degree to which Hillarians will sell their souls to defend the indefensible in DWS. Kip Humphrey May 2016 #228

What is the demographics of Trump voters again? sufrommich May 2016 #27

all true, Betty Karlson May 2016 #33

As far as Wasserman Schultz is concerned democrank May 2016 #34

There is a reason that independents don't have a party of their own Progressive dog May 2016 #42

Because DemocratSinceBirth May 2016 #43

Please note the 100 electoral votes indicated as "leaning D" tabasco May 2016 #100

Lots of things are theoretically possible. That's why they establish odds and HRC is a 1-3 favorite. DemocratSinceBirth May 2016 #106

Odds six months out, like polls, cannot be accepted as totally reliable. thesquanderer May 2016 #310

Primary voting patterns do not reflect GE voting patterns auntpurl May 2016 #44

I'd dearly like to know what these sports of threads hope to acomplish? Tarc May 2016 #50

"Dumb Ass Debbie" is no stranger to losing elections for Democrats FreakinDJ May 2016 #53

More ranting. JoePhilly May 2016 #54

Hillary has a problem with Democrats. Skwmom May 2016 #55

No problem letting "independents" and Republicans... yallerdawg May 2016 #56

You don't speak for all independents. Stop playing already. IamMab May 2016 #59

We have prepared an offer for you: please read rock May 2016 #60

This message was self-deleted by its author RufusTFirefly May 2016 #72

Haha! Great analogy! Glad you were the one who made it. RufusTFirefly May 2016 #73

Yep rock May 2016 #74

Corleone is certainly more corrupt. JimDandy May 2016 #121

It doesn't rock May 2016 #155

Isn't is amazing? They're getting more honest by the day. n/t Hydra May 2016 #254

Thanks for confirming the ugliness we've long suspected. senz May 2016 #205

Whne I called myself ugly, I didn't think that any body needed confirmation rock May 2016 #207

It's clear Sanders doesn't have the enthusiasm of Obama. NCTraveler May 2016 #61

Democrats would be insane to nominate Bernie Sanders Gothmog May 2016 #62

Dana Milbank: blah blah blah blah blah ... Derp! ... blah blah blah... fart. ChisolmTrailDem May 2016 #265

They tell us constantly that they don't need Bettie May 2016 #68

To quote Upton Sinclair Jester Messiah May 2016 #76

Love me some Upton EndElectoral May 2016 #118

You seem to have a hard time with the concept Sanders has NEVER been vetted KittyWampus May 2016 #77

Being the accommodating sort of fellow I am... 99Forever May 2016 #78

Can you link me to the quote leftynyc May 2016 #85

Here's your goddamn link -- senz May 2016 #120

Just as I suspected leftynyc May 2016 #123

Independents are not Republicans. senz May 2016 #125

So what? leftynyc May 2016 #129

Explain your reasoning. senz May 2016 #134

I'm not sure what you're asking leftynyc May 2016 #141

Hm. Something's wrong with the system. senz May 2016 #164

Ah - I see one of the problems right here leftynyc May 2016 #168

There's a difference -- in both your scenarios. senz May 2016 #191

What's my motivation to participate in a GE that I had no voice in? frylock May 2016 #204

I would think leftynyc May 2016 #221

At the end of teh day, you have to convince DEMOCRATS that you're the best candidate. Adrahil May 2016 #82

The Party elite were "ready for Hillary" long before she announced her candidacy. senz May 2016 #171

they ignore us, they don't want us to vote in the primaries dana_b May 2016 #108

I thought it was a very liberating comment. I don't know about anyone else but it's a package deal Autumn May 2016 #110

Lifelong Democrat here. They have sold out the people senz May 2016 #124

Word up. frylock May 2016 #206

Reasonable "Independents" will rally behind Hillary. The "HillaryHaters" will not. We don't care ... NurseJackie May 2016 #114

They are completely in denial EndElectoral May 2016 #119

"We don't need the independents" Um yeah... Good luck with THAT. leeroysphitz May 2016 #127

Most of these new voters behind Bernie wouldn't show up in Nov anyway tonyt53 May 2016 #130

Lots of us "Bernie-ites" are over 50 senz May 2016 #211

Classic primary behavior. HassleCat May 2016 #133

Obama lost the independent vote in 2012. Garrett78 May 2016 #144

Where are the facts coming from to back up these claimes? apnu May 2016 #151

In the General Election, with Clinton v. Trump, I trust independents to look at their choices Agnosticsherbet May 2016 #152

Let's spell it out for the anti-democrats The Second Stone May 2016 #156

What we have now is not democracy. senz May 2016 #201

The majority of the Democratic Party rank and file are quite happy The Second Stone May 2016 #231

You know perfectly well that by "elites" I mean elites, not rank and file. senz May 2016 #234

Your reply is divorced from reality and your original post The Second Stone May 2016 #241

Bernie Sanders' socialism is pure FDR senz May 2016 #243

Pure in the sense that some of his followers The Second Stone May 2016 #244

I know a few Repubs that will not be voting for Donald or anyone. I think there are Pisces May 2016 #196

You might want to check your sources on that. Trump has done well with evangelicals. BillZBubb May 2016 #279

hmm ContinentalOp May 2016 #199

Excellent analysis! Ferd Berfel May 2016 #208

Let's spell it out for Bernie fans: HRC has won 12.2 miln votes, Trump: 10.1 miln, Bernie: 9.1 miln Bill USA May 2016 #226

who needs independents smiley May 2016 #227

Bernie couldn't even win the Democratic votes doc03 May 2016 #230

When you have the apparatchiks known as superdelegates, the vote suppression, etc you go crazy. n/t bobthedrummer May 2016 #232

Why are we assuming all "independents" are left-leaning? Tommy_Carcetti May 2016 #236

Ok but what about "what da fuck are you" people? MyNameGoesHere May 2016 #238

She will be just fine Demsrule86 May 2016 #247

Kicked and recommended. Uncle Joe May 2016 #252

"This is why comments like DWS "We don't need the independents" comment so damn stupid. " malokvale77 May 2016 #255

That's not accurate. Even Obama didn't need to win the independent vote in 2012. BzaDem May 2016 #258

Lol. Obama won independents in 2008 by wide margin berni_mccoy May 2016 #259

What evidence do you have that she will lose independents by double digits? BzaDem May 2016 #261

In case you haven't noticed berni_mccoy May 2016 #262

I'm not sure how you get from "primary turnout gap" to "need to win independents by double digits" BzaDem May 2016 #263

In case you haven't noticed, historically primary turnout is not a predictor of general election onenote May 2016 #308

This is the primary. Sparkly May 2016 #275

You do realize there's no such thing as Hillary Democrats. underthematrix May 2016 #276

Not so. Of course there are Hillary Democrats. BillZBubb May 2016 #280

Really there are not Hillary Democrats underthematrix May 2016 #281

The people who are truly serious on those issues are not Hillary Democrats. BillZBubb May 2016 #282

It's called compromise. Grown-ups do that. Toddlers underthematrix May 2016 #283

Cheap shot, but nice try. Like I said Hillary bots make excuses. BillZBubb May 2016 #286

unfortunately, they are unable to process that information. a sad day for democracy. pdsimdars May 2016 #290

minority voters are way more important than indies Demsrule86 May 2016 #293

Minority voters don't dislike Bernie, wtf! B Calm May 2016 #295

!. Demsrule86 May 2016 #296

WTF making up shit as you go. B Calm May 2016 #297

Guess who else has an unprecedented unfavorable rating among indpendents: Trump onenote May 2016 #307