2016 Postmortem

Armstead

(47,803 posts)

73. I do recognize that

Fri May 6, 2016, 01:33 AM

May 2016

I'm not defending sexism. And yes, i know that because of discrimination and bad behavior, there are certain limits to things that are acceptable and not acceptable. I do try to catch myself when that temptation arises.

I wasn't personally offended by the photo you mentioned, and I got the point of it. But you are right. It was inappropriate.

However, here's an example that's difficult.

People complain that Sander's voice is annoying and they don't like that he yells all the time. Okay that's a fair criticism, if someone responds to him that way.

But God forbid anyone should say something similar about Clinton. They get jumped all over with charges that it's sexist.

It's frustrating because on one hand we're supposed to treat equally. But somehow there is this large code that kicks in when we actually do that that, sets off "you can't say that because it is sexist."

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I have a VERY serious question about political discourse for the next four to eight years. [View all] Armstead May 2016 OP

Have you seen "Idiocracy"? AgerolanAmerican May 2016 #1

very well said. n/t arendt May 2016 #7

Have you seen "Invasion of the Body Snatchers"? Baobab May 2016 #58

Nah, Sanders won't win. We'll be fine. ContinentalOp May 2016 #93

^^^^example of what I mean^^^^ Baobab May 2016 #114

I second the "very well said." Sadly we have too many authoritarian rhett o rick May 2016 #13

As a host you hated it when people alerted over sexism or racism and fought to keep it every time... bettyellen May 2016 #16

Complaining is fine AgingAmerican May 2016 #44

it is called upholding community standards. no sexism or racism, which is WHY I joined. bettyellen May 2016 #59

Go, Bettyellen! :) I'm sorry, though, I'm out of Hortensis May 2016 #127

�Their value system does not run from right to wrong - it runs from strong to weak.� riderinthestorm May 2016 #14

or human beings with self respect who disagree with you. Occurs razor dude. bettyellen May 2016 #30

Damn. Spot on. HooptieWagon May 2016 #32

So very true, thank you for this wonderful post! Kudos!! haikugal May 2016 #33

I posted comment about mean-spirited comics by C people vs. uplifting comics from B people snowy owl May 2016 #112

Great post! TransitJohn May 2016 #152

It has nothing to do with sexism when talking about factual things regarding Hillary Clinton. And bkkyosemite May 2016 #2

Clinton is an authoritarian. Authoritarianism will use suppression and censoring to silence ppl. kgnu_fan May 2016 #3

why does this sound like a post from a bot? bettyellen May 2016 #5

Clinton represents the authoritarian wing of the Democratic Party. The New Democrats are old GOPers. w4rma May 2016 #9

Exactly Bangbangdem May 2016 #34

^^ this ^^ amborin May 2016 #54

what you are still missing is that singling out her ambition was basically "a tell" that this bettyellen May 2016 #4

Mitt Romney pissed me and a lot of people off as governor Armstead May 2016 #17

Because I do truly believe you care to know..... bettyellen May 2016 #22

Mitt Romney was a very hard worker and very accomplished Armstead May 2016 #41

sorry- I should have qualified that as working in the public sector. their resumes do not compare. bettyellen May 2016 #55

I do recognize that Armstead May 2016 #73

I think most people who complained about SBS's voice were throwing it back in someone's face. That bettyellen May 2016 #79

Like x 1000000! AgadorSparticus May 2016 #100

Actually I suspect it's more that she meanders trudyco May 2016 #163

WHAT happened to almost all women 40 years ago? trudyco May 2016 #164

getting "hit on" by coworkers and bosses was the norm in the 60's and 70's. I don't know anyone bettyellen May 2016 #172

You won't get sense JackInGreen May 2016 #35

and this Amsted- is what we call "gas lighting" I am sure you can spot lots more in this thread.... bettyellen May 2016 #103

I'm just following your line of logic betty JackInGreen May 2016 #109

If you think talking about issues HURTS those the issues effect, you have bought a RW frame! bettyellen May 2016 #110

No I dont think in general they do JackInGreen May 2016 #141

You have just put yourself in charge of what a "valid opinion is".... the OP is talking bettyellen May 2016 #146

In spite of your two long explanations, Armstead is not being sexist one whit. pangaia May 2016 #38

"this is actually an extremely common complaint for men in the workplace against their female peers" hellofromreddit May 2016 #26

I encourage you to read up on it. Many men are shocked to realize the bias that is out there- bettyellen May 2016 #29

That doesn't really follow. hellofromreddit May 2016 #37

I am familiar with the old "you cannot prove that in this case it was sexist" saw. bettyellen May 2016 #43

The absence of proof is not proof itself no matter how you convolve the two. hellofromreddit May 2016 #119

You seek to censor conversation a poster here has initiated for their own enlightenment. Why? bettyellen May 2016 #149

Now you're just lying. hellofromreddit May 2016 #158

you argue that if a person says they are not being sexist, then we should just believe them..... bettyellen May 2016 #159

You've compounded your lying and lowed your level of discourse. hellofromreddit May 2016 #160

"DOn't say sexist things" would be a super place to start, bro Tarc May 2016 #6

I can't muster any pity for this OP. n/t JTFrog May 2016 #20

I'm asking for an explanation....Your 'pity" is not sought nor desired. Armstead May 2016 #28

My point is that when everything gets construed that way, nothing can be said Armstead May 2016 #24

Not everything has been construed that way. You know better than that. bettyellen May 2016 #27

No i honestly don't. And I'm pushing this because it matters Armstead May 2016 #31

You can not win this. The tree is being missed for being blinded by the forest. pangaia May 2016 #42

He is trying to learn from this experience, and that is awesome. You all should take a page from bettyellen May 2016 #68

Ugh..please, spare me pangaia May 2016 #95

you guys are so cute hoping the wants to wallow in ignorance. bettyellen May 2016 #113

wrong pangaia May 2016 #131

You guys- It has long been housed as a variant of you people. Also, see "dudes". bettyellen May 2016 #147

I view these tactics as being detrimental to women and it is the same thing you see in narcissistic haikugal May 2016 #45

They say the same things even when there's no election. Waiting For Everyman May 2016 #8

By abusing their labels and misusing those labels to smear others with they diminish those labels.nt w4rma May 2016 #10

Exactly right. nt Waiting For Everyman May 2016 #11

Ah, the old complaining about sexist shit IS sexist.... LOL. Good one! bettyellen May 2016 #12

No. Crying wolf by calling progressives sexist IS indeed sexist. And it's damages the credibility of w4rma May 2016 #15

You are confused- we called the post sexist- not the person. That sort of confusion leads you to bettyellen May 2016 #18

Except the post isn't "sexist" either. The post can be used for any identity with the same meaning. w4rma May 2016 #19

That is not for you to decide. Cute that you would think so though, LOL. Am laughing, not crying. bettyellen May 2016 #23

Who gets to decide? BlindTiresias May 2016 #111

Thanks. The incessant accusations of sexism and racism over things that are neither merrily May 2016 #21

"divisive identity politics stuff. " a RW meme if ever there was one! bettyellen May 2016 #25

Thank you!!!! Good logic, something the dweebs are sadly lacking. haikugal May 2016 #47

I've always suspected you were a dweebist! merrily May 2016 #50

LOL haikugal May 2016 #51

Have you bothered to look at things ... NanceGreggs May 2016 #36

I know it goes both ways, and I am not complaining that Bernie has been mistreated Armstead May 2016 #63

So you've been called a "sexist", have you? NanceGreggs May 2016 #98

This isn't just about DU. It's about the larger political discourse. Armstead May 2016 #123

my issue is DonCoquixote May 2016 #67

What is the hang-up ... NanceGreggs May 2016 #81

Seems they are more concerned about being called sexist than actual sexism. JTFrog May 2016 #137

Typical of racism as well. We have the "you can't prove it, so shut up" contingency arriving here bettyellen May 2016 #150

It's political correctness run amok I tell ya! ContinentalOp May 2016 #39

I have no quarrel with political correctness. As I understand it, it's avoiding hurting people merrily May 2016 #48

You don't see how, for example... ContinentalOp May 2016 #57

Claiming the Peter Principle has something to do with sexism is spurious and specious. merrily May 2016 #64

That's not what I'm claiming. I just looked back at the post in question ContinentalOp May 2016 #74

No, you misunderstood my post. I would not have denied her the position. merrily May 2016 #76

Alright ContinentalOp May 2016 #78

Again, you misunderstood my post. I did not think she was ok as a Senator. merrily May 2016 #82

I don't think I characterized any of your comments as sexist. ContinentalOp May 2016 #91

"That doesn't stifle political discourse. It is political discourse!" Wow- stealing this- thanks! bettyellen May 2016 #61

thanks! ContinentalOp May 2016 #69

Well look around, on the crazy train some here are on- women's issues are NOT serious issues.... bettyellen May 2016 #84

Women? ContinentalOp May 2016 #87

My observation has been that it is a blend of both... bettyellen May 2016 #89

Well you cavalierly dismissed homophobia the other day Prism May 2016 #143

You mean defending a poster here was attacked for talking about her son coming out? bettyellen May 2016 #148

You know your sin Prism May 2016 #169

My sin, LOL? Thank god I don't give a fuck about what anyone thinks is a sin or sacred, LOL. bettyellen May 2016 #170

Excellent post. nt auntpurl May 2016 #115

You just have to learn to ignore it because it is not going away Samantha May 2016 #40

I think what you wrote was absolutely sexist, albeit thinly veiled. nt. nolawarlock May 2016 #46

You got your ass handed to you for your sexist OP. KittyWampus May 2016 #49

I'm similarly concerned about the discourse here, Armstead. elleng May 2016 #52

Me too. But it would be helpful if you both said something when you see the shitty sexism..... bettyellen May 2016 #107

I think it is the nature of politics. Everyone has something BootinUp May 2016 #53

When was the last time a Democrat ran a racist Democratic Presidential primary campaign ? merrily May 2016 #56

I guess that I know why you are asking that, but BootinUp May 2016 #65

I can certainly understand why a Hillary supporter would duck that discussion and, no, it was racist merrily May 2016 #70

To be sure we are talking about the same thing BootinUp May 2016 #71

Let's not play brand new. I am not going to recount 2008 for you. Googling Obama campaign race merrily May 2016 #72

The term racist is not appropriate in my opinion. And no I didn't BootinUp May 2016 #77

I would not expect a Hillary supporter to admit that "racist" was the right term for the 2008 merrily May 2016 #80

What good does it do to rehash this between a known Clinton reviler and BootinUp May 2016 #83

You uses a slur word like "reviler" to someone posting about Hillary's well-documented history. merrily May 2016 #85

You don't see that people can interpret the or read between the lines BootinUp May 2016 #86

OMG. Read between the lines differently = apologia for racist dog whistles. merrily May 2016 #90

Thanks for sharing your opinions. nt BootinUp May 2016 #92

You're welcome. Mine don't change, depending on the candidate, so you can rely on them. merrily May 2016 #94

Since we only discussed one case I am curious how you can make BootinUp May 2016 #96

You and I have had discussions before, whether you remember them or not. merrily May 2016 #97

I am well aware that they are not perfect, lol. BootinUp May 2016 #101

Yet, you will argue ad infinitum on every point. That is not being forgiving. That is stonewalling. merrily May 2016 #102

I don't think the truth has to be only a choice between BootinUp May 2016 #104

Sorry. Defending every point to the death with standard Clinton talking points, then merrily May 2016 #105

And with a clean conscience too. Sorry you didn't enjoy the discussion. nt BootinUp May 2016 #106

LOL! I enjoyed it, in a way and to a point. merrily May 2016 #108

I would say that saying the Southern vote comprised of Black Hillary supporters Demsrule86 May 2016 #166

That was a "racially-tinged" attack on Hillary, comparable to the racially tinged attacks on Obama merrily May 2016 #167

That's true Armstead May 2016 #88

It's sexist to complain of sexism if someone points out discrediting facts about your deeds, policie amborin May 2016 #60

You said you would have "liked her better" if she hadn't, and I think that's what got me. moriah May 2016 #62

Yes! The like her there- but not over here thing. All too common for men to want to map that, LOL. bettyellen May 2016 #66

You're right, that was definitely the most galling part. ContinentalOp May 2016 #75

People say all the time "I used to like Bernie as a Senator when he wasn't running for president." Armstead May 2016 #122

part of it was "the content to be" senator. ambition was the big problem you highlighted. bettyellen May 2016 #171

I perhaps could have used a different term...but I dunno what Armstead May 2016 #173

I get that. But making your own choice is different than others telling you where you "should be bettyellen May 2016 #174

There is no civil discourse here. Perhaps it's by design. Autumn May 2016 #99

Wow, you're...doubling down. auntpurl May 2016 #116

I generally have an excess of self-reflection...and I know a lot of women who aren't reticent... Armstead May 2016 #121

I have never accused you of being sexist before. auntpurl May 2016 #125

No easy answer. pat_k May 2016 #117

What a silly question. Buzz cook May 2016 #118

There isn't anything sexist about your post... TCJ70 May 2016 #120

The "Who? Me?" shtick ain't working. NurseJackie May 2016 #124

Thing is these days, pretty much anything can be branded as sexist shit Armstead May 2016 #126

Watch your step. Avoid shit piles and using ... NurseJackie May 2016 #130

You have to understand that your comments do not stand alone. Adrahil May 2016 #128

Well if the guy is lazy, and is making his co-workers carry the load..... Armstead May 2016 #138

You asked. I told you. Adrahil May 2016 #139

I am not just trying to justify my comments Armstead May 2016 #140

Well, it's not always easy. Adrahil May 2016 #144

Yes, you are trying to justify your comments. NurseJackie May 2016 #165

Political discourse...bwahahahaha Cosmic Kitten May 2016 #129

I remember your post... Mike Nelson May 2016 #132

Suppose Jeb Bush had been more aggressive about running and actually became the frontrunner Armstead May 2016 #136

these guys have not been saddled with being described in terms similar to Bond villains- bettyellen May 2016 #153

Actually I appreciate ambition Armstead May 2016 #155

I get it. Most good men are kind of blind to seeing how these biases play out. We like to give bettyellen May 2016 #156

Discourse will be stifled when a Dem is in the WH regardless of race or gender. LWolf May 2016 #133

It's simply not difficult to write clearly and without ambiguity. LanternWaste May 2016 #134

Maybe we are sick of hearing negative crap about our candidate Hillary Clinton Demsrule86 May 2016 #135

The effort to stop all criticism of Hillary by yelling "Sexism!" is infuriating to me as a feminist. Arugula Latte May 2016 #142

Well, obviously, they don't. nt bemildred May 2016 #145

Almost every one of the complaints you list being leveled at Sanders Fresh_Start May 2016 #151

Your mistake is to think they have any interest in honest discussion. They have 1 job: Vincardog May 2016 #154

If feminist women scare you that much- get help. Seriously. We are as fully human and honest as you bettyellen May 2016 #157

Try listening. wildeyed May 2016 #161

It's not and that's very much the Clintonian intent. Chan790 May 2016 #162

Who exactly is stifling you? CBHagman May 2016 #168