2016 Postmortem

BlindTiresias

(1,563 posts)

92. Are you actually doubling down?

Mon May 9, 2016, 06:59 PM

May 2016

Please address my previous argument because you are just repeating the same fallacious argument as well as now uncharitably shifting terms.

"You are saying that because a narrow majority did not vote for sanders that this means his political positions are radical, which in addition to being an argumentum ad popularim fallacy is also a red herring (people voting in primaries have nothing to do with an academic understanding of ideology). In addition, it is fallacious reasoning because simple majority does not guarantee that the belief is correct. If one person can be wrong, it stands to reason that many people can be wrong.

Furthermore, your argument is a non sequitur because you have leaped from the premise "a narrow majority supports Hillary" to the conclusion "Sanders' political positions are extreme", which does not follow.

If we actually look at a real understanding of ideology and political philosophy, Sanders would be considered a moderate center-left politician, which is social democracy."

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I'm not a right winger. What is the Democratic Party presently? [View all] mmonk May 2016 OP

It's solidly to the left, except to the fringe. CrowCityDem May 2016 #1

from the standpoint of a Republican conservative it looks that way Armstead May 2016 #40

Ha! Bravo! valerief May 2016 #58

Exactly, mustn't we reevaluate our party since it is is going through a right wing realignment? Dragonfli May 2016 #125

You said this for the rest us old democratic Democrats. I no longer leveymg May 2016 #162

Lulz TransitJohn May 2016 #95

I can draw a chart putting Bernie on Pluto. Your point? CrowCityDem May 2016 #114

I didn't draw it. TransitJohn May 2016 #121

It clearly isn't based on US politics. CrowCityDem May 2016 #130

True, they use their methodology worldwide, their methodology is both well respected and sound Dragonfli May 2016 #134

Communism is as far left as can be, last I knew, unless a further left Ideology has newly formed Dragonfli May 2016 #160

Actually the Dems are by any analysis nadinbrzezinski May 2016 #163

Only if you ignore that times change. Otherwise, Demand are still the party of racists. CrowCityDem May 2016 #166

Alas political theory does not change nadinbrzezinski May 2016 #185

I like the this one, myself... Bobbie Jo May 2016 #140

One must scale that chart to the context under discussion. As it is shown, one might put Sanders... yawnmaster May 2016 #129

This has nothing to do with the Overton window, but relies instead on the actual Definitions. Dragonfli May 2016 #148

but that would require making right wing center as some people seem to have a won't todo. hollysmom May 2016 #161

This message was self-deleted by its author hollysmom May 2016 #158

The level of Sanders' socialism was too much for Democrats to accept. That's all. Trust Buster May 2016 #2

If a moderate social democrat was "too much" BlindTiresias May 2016 #8

No impartial observer would define Sanders and his policies as "moderate". Trust Buster May 2016 #12

My Norwegian friends consider him a moderate. JonLeibowitz May 2016 #16

Comparing Norway to a behemoth like the U.S. is, well, I'll leave at that. Trust Buster May 2016 #19

That's ridiculous...the only reason that we can't have national health care and other... Human101948 May 2016 #32

Did I compare them? I simply provided a counterexample to your ludicrous claim JonLeibowitz May 2016 #78

Ya...but some guy in Norway says.... Cali_Democrat May 2016 #90

Well, not some guy, but a woman. JonLeibowitz May 2016 #100

This really betrays a deep ignorance on your part. BlindTiresias May 2016 #17

The significant majority of those registered as Democrats disagree with you. Trust Buster May 2016 #21

Informal Fallacy BlindTiresias May 2016 #22

No it isn't. There's a reason Sanders and his supporters dislike closed primaries. Because Sanders Trust Buster May 2016 #25

Yes, it was BlindTiresias May 2016 #35

You're not counting all the people... yallerdawg May 2016 #81

That does not make his argument logically consistent or charitable. BlindTiresias May 2016 #85

Sanders performs badly amongst registered Democrats or you'd have no problem with closed Trust Buster May 2016 #88

Are you actually doubling down? BlindTiresias May 2016 #92

That doesn't make what she said wrong..... TransitJohn May 2016 #102

Her opinion does not reflect the opinion of the majority of registered Democrats. Trust Buster May 2016 #105

That still doesn't make what she said wrong.... TransitJohn May 2016 #110

Sure, but any supporter of a failed campaign can say the same. Trust Buster May 2016 #113

And that still wouldn't bear on the veracity TransitJohn May 2016 #117

yes they would TransitJohn May 2016 #97

His policies are very moderate nadinbrzezinski May 2016 #143

He is not a moderate. He's a radical IMO. Trust Buster May 2016 #145

Your lack of understanding of political science is not my issue nadinbrzezinski May 2016 #147

And your lack of votes is not my issue. Game, set, match - me.....LOL Trust Buster May 2016 #150

And the fact that you relish *your ignorance is your issue* nadinbrzezinski May 2016 #151

I just place that post in the sour grapes category. You insult because your candidate has lost. Trust Buster May 2016 #153

Well since I have had no candiate in this race nadinbrzezinski May 2016 #155

Your profanity is a clue that I'm done with this conversation. Trust Buster May 2016 #165

Or the fact that you were shown how ignorant you are nadinbrzezinski May 2016 #167

True ignorance is dependent on profanity out of a lack of anything intelligent to say IMO. Trust Buster May 2016 #168

Actually this gets the price for most ironic post in months nadinbrzezinski May 2016 #175

Stop Digging, you are incredibly clueless and attempting to argue with one that is knowledgeable on Dragonfli May 2016 #169

I'm in good company. The majority of Democrats voted for Hillary because they believe the same. Trust Buster May 2016 #170

You mean most democrats are ignorant of really basic political theory? nadinbrzezinski May 2016 #174

You definitely seem full of yourself. You've cornered the market on intelligence. Sad. Trust Buster May 2016 #176

Nope, but I could point to you some really good reads on basic political theory nadinbrzezinski May 2016 #179

I am going to be nice nadinbrzezinski May 2016 #173

I actually find Sanders supporters to be nasty and condescending. Nice is not their nature. Trust Buster May 2016 #178

I find partisans concescending and not nice, wehther they are democrats or republcians nadinbrzezinski May 2016 #180

Everyone thinks they're moderate. Few can see extremities close to home. CrowCityDem May 2016 #84

My opinion BlindTiresias May 2016 #87

Political party ideology is not that hard nadinbrzezinski May 2016 #149

That's why the Democratic Party isn't 'solidly to the left' as stated TransitJohn May 2016 #96

The posts here attacking Hillary are becoming indistinguishable from FOX News. YouDig May 2016 #3

This is true. Actor May 2016 #5

Fox News is calling the current incarnation of the Dem Party right-wing? Broward May 2016 #24

The only thing the Bernie supporters here seem to care about is the email server. YouDig May 2016 #26

Well, on this very thread some Bernie supporters are expressing concern that the Dem Party Broward May 2016 #29

This message was self-deleted by its author iandhr May 2016 #72

Anybody with half an understanding of political science nadinbrzezinski May 2016 #152

This message was self-deleted by its author iandhr May 2016 #156

And the Democratic party has still moved RIGHT nadinbrzezinski May 2016 #157

This message was self-deleted by its author iandhr May 2016 #172

And yet the party still have moved right nadinbrzezinski May 2016 #177

their definition of moving right Demsrule86 May 2016 #132

Ironically the former nadinbrzezinski May 2016 #154

That's patent bullshit...if you'd read people's posts Armstead May 2016 #44

OK, "only" was an exaggeration. The other big topic that Bernie supporters YouDig May 2016 #66

Wrong again...If you look through the primary many issues and topics have been raised Armstead May 2016 #69

Explain to me how anyone who cares about any issue could possibly even contemplate YouDig May 2016 #73

I'm in the category of "She gets my vote to stop Trump" but nothing else Armstead May 2016 #76

I'm glad to hear that. YouDig May 2016 #89

Obama is great -- but he is too closely aligned with a system with evil effects Armstead May 2016 #98

Yes, that's apparently today's meme Amaril May 2016 #64

Yeah, conspiracies about David Brock are also big here. Somehow the Bernie people YouDig May 2016 #71

LOL Amaril May 2016 #109

Very true, very sad. /nt Dragonfli May 2016 #182

Yeah, no shit TransitJohn May 2016 #99

Nailed it. n/t lumberjack_jeff May 2016 #118

From a poli sci perspective... they are correct nadinbrzezinski May 2016 #146

Hillary is becoming indistinguishable from a Fox News contributor... Human101948 May 2016 #36

.+1 840high May 2016 #94

You should know Demsrule86 May 2016 #131

Funny how many people joined in mid-April and all say the same thing. n/t arcane1 May 2016 #50

Quite liberal/progressive in my county. emulatorloo May 2016 #4

There does seem to be RW posters here and a lot of RW talking points, Thinkingabout May 2016 #6

Have you been reading your posts aloud? JonLeibowitz May 2016 #18

See you know talking about corruption from Wall Street TimPlo May 2016 #23

TimPlo—Some Hillary voters think it’s not a problem… CobaltBlue May 2016 #60

I guess none of them have worked a day in their life TimPlo May 2016 #65

Silly boy....The definition of right wing is anything that is critical of Clinton Armstead May 2016 #46

You should know Demsrule86 May 2016 #135

The "Hillary has herself to blame, has done this to herself" is STRAIGHT out of rightwing land Actor May 2016 #53

She chose to give speeches to shady Wall St firms and Big Corporations for huge paybacks... Armstead May 2016 #59

It's the truth. She did it - in 840high May 2016 #101

Exactly, everything is either Hillary's or Obama's fault. Thinkingabout May 2016 #133

Absolutely right Demsrule86 May 2016 #138

Dwight Eisenhower, Howard Baker, and Nelson Rockefeller were more liberal the Clinton Democrats Chasstev365 May 2016 #7

It's primary season lol griffi94 May 2016 #9

Let me correct your claim. PufPuf23 May 2016 #103

Eye of the beholder griffi94 May 2016 #112

yeah sure. eom PufPuf23 May 2016 #127

Bernie is not moderate Demsrule86 May 2016 #141

If you're a "Megachurch Mom", WELCOME HOME! Warren DeMontague May 2016 #10

Indeed BlindTiresias May 2016 #11

Which is worse? [n/t] Maedhros May 2016 #61

The difference BlindTiresias May 2016 #68

It's right-wing for sure. Broward May 2016 #13

Complete bullshit. Both Hillary and Obama are liberal redstateblues May 2016 #37

In what ways are they liberal? Why are you so willing to compromise your principles? Ed Suspicious May 2016 #43

You are doing the bidding of the billionaire class whether you know it or not. Broward May 2016 #52

I think the Bernie Sanders group is all that's left of the "Democratic Party". pacalo May 2016 #14

Hey, we're not wanted in the Democratic Party anymore. Maedhros May 2016 #63

It just might happen. Lefties value integrity. pacalo May 2016 #74

The Democratic Party believes that it does not need to earn our votes anymore. Maedhros May 2016 #126

You are absolutely correct on both counts. pacalo May 2016 #128

Actually they still NEED your votes to win nadinbrzezinski May 2016 #159

I, and many others, plan on leaving the day after, if HRH gets the nomination. nt. DirtyHippyBastard May 2016 #91

I was already out. I only registered to vote for Bernie, then I will switch back. [n/t] Maedhros May 2016 #124

Ralph... is that you? nt BootinUp May 2016 #15

Brock... is that you? Art_from_Ark May 2016 #28

+1,000,000 ... Trajan May 2016 #181

Thats because many of the posts are. NCTraveler May 2016 #20

In all political parties... jamese777 May 2016 #27

Stop with the "extreme fringe" nonsense. Maedhros May 2016 #75

. Dragonfli May 2016 #184

mmonk—Your sense of rightwing is good; but, I don’t hang/post at the Hillary Group. CobaltBlue May 2016 #30

Post removed Post removed May 2016 #31

When i see some of the ops trashing Hillary I notice how similar they are to right wing attacks on hrmjustin May 2016 #33

Easy to read chart Rass May 2016 #34

Message auto-removed Name removed May 2016 #38

false? hahaha Rass May 2016 #41

Bernie will endorse Hillary at the convention redstateblues May 2016 #48

That rates Hillary as a moderate authoritarian right winger... Human101948 May 2016 #39

Political compass BlindTiresias May 2016 #42

Ridiculous. You pulled that out of your ass. I've seen others that have Hillary redstateblues May 2016 #45

Political compass BlindTiresias May 2016 #47

So Bernie will endorse a RW Authoritarian? redstateblues May 2016 #55

You can message them BlindTiresias May 2016 #57

Don't count on that to happen. TransitJohn May 2016 #115

History lesson Rass May 2016 #62

The membership or the leadership? Lizzie Poppet May 2016 #49

The rank-and-file is becoming increasingly willing to be 'herded' into accepting conservative policy Maedhros May 2016 #77

Good point. Brand loyalty is mindless. Lizzie Poppet May 2016 #83

That would be called "integrity." [n/t] Maedhros May 2016 #123

It's Not Bush, unless it's privately calling Jeb Bush's big donors. Kall May 2016 #51

Let the de facto head of the Democratic Party explain it Art_from_Ark May 2016 #54

Obama says he'd be seen as moderate Republican in 1980s, Go Vols May 2016 #108

Liberal on certain select social issues-- Conservative on Wealth and Power Armstead May 2016 #56

Well, they let the grassroots fight the really hard battles (e.g. LGBTQ rights), Maedhros May 2016 #79

You're correct....Maybe "more liberal than the GOP" would be more apt Armstead May 2016 #80

That's the crux of it. Maedhros May 2016 #122

The Democratic party (DNC) is libertarian AgingAmerican May 2016 #67

This message was self-deleted by its author iandhr May 2016 #70

Could it be that anyone to the right of Trotsky is a right winger? SwampG8r May 2016 #139

The leading candidates are center right. basselope May 2016 #82

It's pretty RW. Its ICON ( Clinton) is our Iron Maiden. Smarmie Doofus May 2016 #86

Very right wing. They favor torture, more war, more domestic spying, more privatization, Doctor_J May 2016 #93

Crowdpac Ratings jamese777 May 2016 #104

It is two wings of one bird. And the divide widens by the minute. floriduck May 2016 #106

Moderate wing of Republican party. ozone_man May 2016 #107

K&R Spot On! B Calm May 2016 #111

Blue Dogs are coming out. Downwinder May 2016 #116

There is disagreement over economics, but broad agreement on social policy Algernon Moncrieff May 2016 #119

This message was self-deleted by its author Dem2 May 2016 #120

Far right of Ike's Republican party, somewhat right of Nixon's Republican party, unrecognizable to F Vote2016 May 2016 #136

The D Wing of the Corporatist Party. hobbit709 May 2016 #137

Answer: A Center-Left coalition... brooklynite May 2016 #142

It's a label slapped on almost anything that looks like it might procure a vote or donation. Tierra_y_Libertad May 2016 #144

Republicans with different wedge issues. Sky Masterson May 2016 #164

I think you have figured it out. PowerToThePeople May 2016 #171

yep, a right wing shit show. elana i am May 2016 #183

Locking tammywammy May 2016 #186