Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

2016 Postmortem

Showing Original Post only (View all)
 

hellofromreddit

(1,182 posts)
Mon May 16, 2016, 01:10 AM May 2016

'Bernie or Bust' is not a tantrum [View all]

Personally, I still intend to vote for Hillary in the GE if she gets the nomination. I wonder how many will angrily reply before reading even this far.

We should recognize where BoB comes from.

Many of the Sanders voters are new democrats (myself included) who are not strongly connected to the party. My beliefs align quite well with the stated democratic platform, but I've been on the short end of plenty of policies from both major parties and feel zero affection for either one. I know I'm not alone. Arguments to the effect of "We just need a majority of democrats," with no specific end-game don't carry a whole lot of sway with my crowd. Remember when the democrats got a supermajority and proceeded to do none of what they said they'd do with it (hence the 'shellacking' in 2010)? Many older voters remember, and many younger voters know only today's do-nothing congress. So the vague promise of a democrat in office leading to a brighter future for some undescribed reason simply does not impress without some specifics.

Clinton doesn't inspire. Clinton's campaign, at its core, has no actual message. Sure, first female president sounds like a good symbol, but the rest of the campaign is primarily "I'm not." Not Trump, not conservative, not a republican, not not not. No "we", and no indication of what role the rest of us could play in her presidency. On its own that can't inspire any voters who haven't already decided to vote for her. So the rest of the message is to fear the alternative. To voters suffering now, watching their lives slide downhill now, and knowing tomorrow will be worse, it's hard to get super excited about somebody promising to be marginally unterrible.

Obama ain't that great. I don't think he's a bad president, but he has some real flaws and people who bring them up aren't doing it out of spite or whatever. He's the president; those flaws matter. Whistle blowers have been persecuted and the government is too secretive. Drone strikes kill civilians. Murdering our own citizens because they're deemed terrorists without a trial is frightening. Deporting families is unconscionable. Wall street was never prosecuted and our economic recovery is so lopsided it might as well not have happened for most people. We're still fighting endless, unofficial wars. He never did find his comfortable pair of shoes. You're telling people pissed off about any of that mess that Hillary will keep the gravy train rolling?

The DNC is awful. It was obvious since before Sanders began his run that the DNC would collude with Clinton. Sharing field offices with her campaign staff, the back-door money hose, DWS immediately turning on the Sanders campaign after the data breech, and of course, the super delegates pre-pledging by the hundreds. Euphemize it all you want, the corruption is as brazen as can be.

Hillary supporters are just mean. "We don't need your vote." "We don't want your vote." "Aww, no unicorn for you." "It's math." "Feel the math." "It's math, stupid." "That's where the boys are." "You aren't a real democrat." "Grow up." "Get over your tantrum." "Stop acting like a spoiled brat." "We're gonna need more foil." "You're wasting your time." "You're wasting your money." "You're losing." "You hateful/sexist/racist BernieBros." Who on Earth would have a positive response to any of that shit? Attacking voters is a no-go.

The accusations that Sanders has been negative are hollow. In fact, just about every criticism against Sanders has been dishonest to some degree. From Capehart's ham-fisted swiftboating to "where was he on healthcare in 1994?" to our seagulls screaming about his speaking at the Vatican, all of it has made critics look like damn fools and by contrast made Sanders look even better to his supporters. So fresh negative attacks on Sanders now go nowhere fast.

If there's ever an election for a protest vote, this is it. Both parties are deeply fragmented, so no matter how this election turns out, nobody will have that much power. Odds are looking pretty good that we'll even witness the death of a political party. And Sanders is the strongest outside candidate in many years. Lots of voters will be giving a big fat middle finger to the two major parties, so the reasoning goes: "One more can't hurt." All the fuckyous in the world won't bring them back to you.

The only effective option for reducing BoBs (assuming you want to) is to honestly confront what they complain about and show them where the solutions to those problems fit into the party and the Clinton campaign. So far I haven't seen even an attempt.

Why will I vote for Hillary? I'm a pragmatist like Sanders. Fight and push like hell for the best possible option, and when the fighting and pushing is done, work with the best available option. Sanders is the best possible option for me. Hillary is currently a better fallback option than a protest vote, but lots of folks supposedly "with her" are working awfully hard to reverse that balance.

117 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
'Bernie or Bust' is not a tantrum [View all] hellofromreddit May 2016 OP
So in the probable outcome Txbluedog May 2016 #1
Yes Meteor Man May 2016 #4
Work with Bernie voters? Txbluedog May 2016 #10
Working with Bernie voters Meteor Man May 2016 #14
Working with does not mean letting Sanders have the nomination, more bargaining uponit7771 May 2016 #28
Meteor Man didn't say anything about Sanders getting the nomination... TCJ70 May 2016 #40
I mean, do you even read the posts you respond to? Joe the Revelator May 2016 #41
Sanders followers believe it is, despite being in the minority. That's not how democracy works but BlueCaliDem May 2016 #76
I hope we are not now taking advice from blue dog Democrats timmymoff May 2016 #34
Bernie is more of a winner than Clinton ever was, pangaia May 2016 #55
What a bunch of Bernie-BUNK. My god, some Americans truly are clueless. eom BlueCaliDem May 2016 #77
Her resume may be longer, but her fuck-ups are greater. Fawke Em May 2016 #83
Compared to Sanders f-ups? Hardly. Ask the AA community and Latino civil rights groups BlueCaliDem May 2016 #88
Bernie didn't write the crime bill Fawke Em May 2016 #92
No. He just voted emphatically for it - as did the CBC. It's what the Black community wanted, too. BlueCaliDem May 2016 #96
Really?? GulfCoast66 May 2016 #111
Quite honestly, I don't see a slice of anything with either. Fawke Em May 2016 #6
Read the OP's last paragraph Txbluedog May 2016 #12
I've already made my November decision. Fawke Em May 2016 #15
for the 10,000th time....who gives a shit that you don't want to vote for the Dem Nominee Sheepshank May 2016 #70
You must care. You keep responding. Fawke Em May 2016 #84
why should I block? Sheepshank May 2016 #99
I have made my decision Duckhunter935 May 2016 #33
Kinda hellofromreddit May 2016 #13
A lot of Hillary's voters........ Vanje May 2016 #19
Bull. Hillary's war mongering corporatist positions are a hell of a lot closer to Trump than Bernie. GoneFishin May 2016 #61
And there you go vote shaming. northernsouthern May 2016 #30
Clinton is not giving them anything to vote FOR Armstead May 2016 #50
Bye, Y'all. snort May 2016 #64
Fantastic post. Fawke Em May 2016 #2
You forgot "It's HER Turn!", among her more endearing slogans... NewImproved Deal May 2016 #3
. StayFrosty May 2016 #5
One. hellofromreddit May 2016 #7
Thanks for giving an example of the very issue the OP was addressing! Fawke Em May 2016 #11
I only read the first sentence about you voting for Hillary, and am angry as hell One Black Sheep May 2016 #8
:) hellofromreddit May 2016 #17
Now puffy socks May 2016 #81
Excellent Post pmorlan1 May 2016 #9
Using the Trump fear tactic won't work.... ThinkCritically May 2016 #16
Clinton very much inspires me. nt Jezebel Jackson May 2016 #18
This message was self-deleted by its author artislife May 2016 #21
This message was self-deleted by its author artislife May 2016 #20
This late Baby Boomer beltanefauve May 2016 #100
This message was self-deleted by its author artislife May 2016 #102
Yes we did beltanefauve May 2016 #106
This message was self-deleted by its author artislife May 2016 #109
Thanks for sharing that beltanefauve May 2016 #110
K&R SpareribSP May 2016 #22
It's NOT Bernie or Bust. basselope May 2016 #23
so why are you here? your in direct violation of teh terms of service rdking647 May 2016 #44
He did not violate the terms of service.[n/t] Maedhros May 2016 #82
Here for the primary. basselope May 2016 #86
Good post till the last paragraph dreamnightwind May 2016 #24
I like that analogy. Fawke Em May 2016 #90
If you're on Twitter you are welcome to start it dreamnightwind May 2016 #107
What happens when a Bernie-like candidate wins in the future BzaDem May 2016 #25
We've been hearing this refrain for DECADES. Maedhros May 2016 #85
How is that relevant? BzaDem May 2016 #113
I disagree that if Hillary loses, the country as we know it will cease to exist Maedhros May 2016 #114
Isn't that the same argument Nader's supporters made in 2000? BzaDem May 2016 #115
Republicans are currently being very effective in blocking Obama's Supreme Court nominee, Maedhros May 2016 #116
"Democrats control the Senate, so your assertion is not quite backed up by reality" BzaDem May 2016 #117
This is the kind of excellent post that gives me hope for the future. Well-informed, smart, only highprincipleswork May 2016 #26
yeah, yeah...it is... typical entitlement type of tantrum too uponit7771 May 2016 #27
Two. hellofromreddit May 2016 #35
The super majority line is more right wing tripe, its VERY VERY sad that its allowed on DU uponit7771 May 2016 #29
the people who say obama sucks have not paid attention to the content cockblocking by the GOP pansypoo53219 May 2016 #31
The GOP forced him to expand the NSA surveillance program? Maedhros May 2016 #32
Our current President beltanefauve May 2016 #101
I voted for Bush in 2004... TCJ70 May 2016 #36
they will be part owner of Trump WH, too. nt grasswire May 2016 #103
Bernie or bust is just the PUMA of 2008 Tarc May 2016 #37
Three. hellofromreddit May 2016 #39
/slow clap Tarc May 2016 #43
Snape is now slow clapping here. Fawke Em May 2016 #93
Sanders is the avowed enemy of the Democratic Party. You're surprised that the DNC doesn't like him? randome May 2016 #38
That's absurd. hellofromreddit May 2016 #45
It's also why he has fewer Congressional endorsements than Ted Cruz. randome May 2016 #48
A resounding lack of endorsements from a despised congress doesn't make him an enemy. hellofromreddit May 2016 #49
I get it. You and Sanders despise everyone else. I'm fine with that. randome May 2016 #57
You've reduced yourself to lying. Not gonna play the straw man game with you. hellofromreddit May 2016 #59
He's called the party ideologically bankrupt mythology May 2016 #69
"Not exactly words of a friend." Also not the words of an avowed enemy. hellofromreddit May 2016 #71
If that were true he'd be running as a Third Party spoiler Armstead May 2016 #51
He's spent decades telling the DNC how corrupt they are. randome May 2016 #58
Seems to have done pretty well for a guy who started with almost no profile Armstead May 2016 #60
He HAS done well. He brings light to important issues. randome May 2016 #65
Kennedy warned about revolutions nadinbrzezinski May 2016 #74
A social revolution is what is called for in this country. randome May 2016 #94
Careful what you wish for nadinbrzezinski May 2016 #95
So I see a whole lot of people declaring they aren't Dems in this thread talking about our candidate seabeyond May 2016 #42
I am a Democrat. Fawke Em May 2016 #89
You would be the PUMA of 2016. Not getting what you want? Not voting!!! Being you are a Dem seabeyond May 2016 #91
"Hillary supporters are just mean." Adrahil May 2016 #46
I hope you didn''t just focus on that part of the Op Armstead May 2016 #54
I did not. That was the only part I responded too, however. NT Adrahil May 2016 #66
Excellent post. AirmensMom May 2016 #47
Great Post, and my feelings exactly...except for the "new" part Armstead May 2016 #52
Old Progressive Here - Bernie Or Bust For This Citizen cantbeserious May 2016 #53
A whole lot of words in that OP when two would have sufficed. Trust Buster May 2016 #56
I agree with everything except I dont think Hillary is the best alternative to Sanders. Lindsixo May 2016 #62
Oh, that made me realize how bad she is on the SSI issue. Fawke Em May 2016 #97
The whole post is full of factual inaccuracies. YouDig May 2016 #63
Perhaps you require an example. A'ight. hellofromreddit May 2016 #67
Your OP said "none of what they said they'd do with it". Clearly incorrect. YouDig May 2016 #68
The literalism game might win you points in a debate class, but I don't care. hellofromreddit May 2016 #72
Calling my post "trash" since you can't muster a response won't even win you points in debate class. YouDig May 2016 #75
You claim Obama care was a great victory? BigMin28 May 2016 #105
plus the feeling that she'd be cheating even if she WAS winning decisively MisterP May 2016 #73
It IS a tantrum - and a very immature one. I'm so happy that the vast majority of Democrats aren't BlueCaliDem May 2016 #78
Four. hellofromreddit May 2016 #80
It's hard to take this seriously mythology May 2016 #79
Oh, for fuck's sake. Maedhros May 2016 #87
Great post beltanefauve May 2016 #98
this steam is discouraging. oldandhappy May 2016 #104
Hillary needs to cheat and win the GE just like azmom May 2016 #108
Why do Hillary fans care about Bernie or Bust voters? Nedsdag May 2016 #112
Latest Discussions»Retired Forums»2016 Postmortem»'Bernie or Bust' is not a...»Reply #0