2016 Postmortem

uponit7771

(93,528 posts)

176. This is also false on its face, no he wasn't .. he was known among politicos he was not Donald Trump

Thu May 19, 2016, 10:19 AM

May 2016

... known among the populace and his campaign kick off hardly got any press.

He also had nearly 3 months of Rev Wright press against him, someone counted the hours of Rev Wright segments

There's no rewriting history here, he didn't have establishment support when he started ... most SDs where with Clinton and his money was grass roots.

He also EMPERICALLY had less PDs to choose from than Sanders so his path was harder.

Obama knew were the dem base was and it wasn't in IA or NH even though he did ok in IA.... Obama EARNED the establishment support after SC and didn't earn black support till after SC either.

and he was black !!!

I don't see how Sanders can say anything is rigged when the person who had EMPIRICALLY a harder path won against an establishment candidate WITHOUT the establishment support from the beginning of his campaign

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Weaver was just asked how did Obama win against Clinton with the same obstacles as Sanders? [View all] uponit7771 May 2016 OP

Obama had other corporate dems on his side like Durbin. Obama is a centrist JRLeft May 2016 #1

Sanders has dems on his side to right? tia uponit7771 May 2016 #3

Hillary learned from last time and made sure her opponents wouldn't generate enough name JRLeft May 2016 #16

Obama was the Hillary of 2008, he was the one with the huge health ****** industry lobby money Baobab May 2016 #168

I donated & voted for Obama, previously voted for WJC. Obama represented hope and change. TheBlackAdder May 2016 #39

I had a similar experience CajunBlazer May 2016 #157

Agreed- it was Reid who asked Obama to run. CanadaexPat May 2016 #9

Obama had concrete plans for every item on his agenda. He was able to intelligently articulate anotherproletariat May 2016 #2

Yeah, I figured that... a podium bird and a greeting with the pope doesn't really count. Weaver... uponit7771 May 2016 #4

It had more to do with his charisma. JRLeft May 2016 #6

So he smiled better? Really? uponit7771 May 2016 #13

No, he's a great orator who related to young people. JRLeft May 2016 #19

What establishment figures backed him when he started, they backed him EVENTUALLY but the ... uponit7771 May 2016 #34

John Kerry and Ted Kennedy endorsed Obama in January 2008. NT Eric J in MN May 2016 #205

at the beginning of his campaign Obama had more endorsements than Clinton!? REALLY?! What is uponit7771 May 2016 #223

Obama was prepared and groomed by the powerful Illinois Democratic Party machine. imagine2015 May 2016 #222

right wing tripe uponit7771 May 2016 #224

I've been told Bernie has more charisma than Hillary in speeches. Even she admits it Sheepshank May 2016 #15

+1, they're flailing right now... Fuck Rodd asked a decent question to Weaver and he couldn't addres uponit7771 May 2016 #37

Yeah. Kall May 2016 #35

I can't keep up, are you all against Obama too? Who did you people vote for in the last election? anotherproletariat May 2016 #42

+1 uponit7771 May 2016 #97

His "concrete plan" obviously wasn't concrete on a core issue like health care. Kall May 2016 #125

I was drawing attention to the fact that Sanders has no plans, concrete or not. nt anotherproletariat May 2016 #126

Of course he does. Kall May 2016 #133

Yep, he said he would implemente single-payer health care plan CajunBlazer May 2016 #162

Including, and especially, foreign policy, where Sanders is a big zero BeyondGeography May 2016 #44

He couldn't answer that one other than he said Obama ran a great campaign doc03 May 2016 #5

There were far more roadblocks this time. Far less debates and candidates. JRLeft May 2016 #7

Outside of the number of debates what were the road blocks that were different now than then? tia uponit7771 May 2016 #14

Scroll up. JRLeft May 2016 #22

Other than an anecdotal "charisma" there's nothing empirical when I scroll up uponit7771 May 2016 #32

Really? The backing of Wall Street, Big Pharma, Monsanto, etc. JRLeft May 2016 #43

Obama had all of that when he started? No... he didn't and I'm talking about RULES not ... uponit7771 May 2016 #64

Actually he did, industry backed him from the beginning, and gave him more money as he gained JRLeft May 2016 #77

Link and quote on that one, Obama had grass roots money from the beginning seeing he was only uponit7771 May 2016 #96

He didn't just waltz in but the Third Way talked about him before he ran for Senate. JRLeft May 2016 #112

JR, Obama did the thing that Sanders couldn't; he EARNED his way into the presidency and now uponit7771 May 2016 #167

debates yes, candidates not really dsc May 2016 #17

Bernie has been around Washington for decades if he would have been in the Democratic party doc03 May 2016 #57

+1, or if he had some proof that his ideals of revolution worked even in his own state he would've.. uponit7771 May 2016 #107

Clinton is only barely winning with whatever coalition she has. If they keep dumping on the Sanders highprincipleswork May 2016 #8

Clinton has 3 million more votes now than Obama had then and FDR had an 80% dem congress in both uponit7771 May 2016 #21

Listen friend, we'd have more Democrats in Congress if the Democrats we have didn't act like such highprincipleswork May 2016 #63

or we'd have a congress if Sanders would bring his "revolution" to bear in the past but he didn't uponit7771 May 2016 #65

If you read any of my posts around here, you'd know that my opinion is that the time is ripe now, highprincipleswork May 2016 #72

Her coalition will be stronger in the GE against Trump. Bet on it!!! nt Jitter65 May 2016 #86

I'm not betting on any such thing. How do I know? I've been a Democrat for over 4o years, and sure highprincipleswork May 2016 #93

I'd bet on it, young people aren't going to let jerks like Trump in cause they mad. They're more.. uponit7771 May 2016 #103

wow on which teevee channel was he just asked that rather leading question? Link it please azurnoir May 2016 #10

MSNBC, and how was it a leading question? It basically calls Sanders "rigged" calls bullshit uponit7771 May 2016 #23

Why won't MSNBC talk about Net Neutrality, TPP, Monsanto, and JRLeft May 2016 #31

JR, what doesn't that have to do with the question at hand? How was it leading? and maybe they don't uponit7771 May 2016 #74

My take? WTF are you talking about? They aren't even close JCanete May 2016 #11

Could you outline what obstacles are different now than then other than the number of debates? tia uponit7771 May 2016 #24

I think I did address it but money and media support isn't enough for you? And JCanete May 2016 #40

Again, I'm talking about the rules not anecdotal ascribes to what happened in 08 uponit7771 May 2016 #73

Establishment rules help establishment candidates. Both Obama and Hillary JCanete May 2016 #85

That's bullshit, Obama was in office what? 2 years?... that's not even reality, Obama was an uponit7771 May 2016 #89

If you can get big money support, you are not an insurgent. JCanete May 2016 #108

Again, Obama did NOT have that support IN THE BEGINNING of his campaign. He won that support uponit7771 May 2016 #114

Where are you drawing the cutoff? Are you claiming that Obama didn't get campaign contributions JCanete May 2016 #139

It doesn't matter, Obama did NOT begin with the support he had in the middle of the primary he uponit7771 May 2016 #151

He wasn't on the power brokers hit-list, and he was a comfortable enough fit. JCanete May 2016 #172

It isn't the same. Clinton and Obama are in the same branch of the Democratic Party-the Corporatist Skwmom May 2016 #12

That's exactly it. the party machine had no problem switching from Hillary to Obama. m-lekktor May 2016 #20

It was an inner family Corporatist squabble. Skwmom May 2016 #30

^ This JRLeft May 2016 #26

Clinton is winning the same demos Obama won with in 08 and What is different now than then? tia uponit7771 May 2016 #27

Didn't Obama win young voters and Clinton has only received a fraction of Obama's remaining Skwmom May 2016 #33

This is false, Clinton has the support of millennials of color the last I checked but you bring up a uponit7771 May 2016 #45

You're not making any sense Armstead May 2016 #18

Makes perfect sense, Sanders calls for "rigged" is bullshit seeing Obama won with the similar set uponit7771 May 2016 #29

except that you're just saying they were the same obstacles. People are JCanete May 2016 #48

I'm talking about RULES and not anechdotal ascribes to the candidates, there are FEW RULE uponit7771 May 2016 #66

He passed the Animal House exit about a month ago. ucrdem May 2016 #25

lofl uponit7771 May 2016 #28

Isn't it funny how quickly the elephant in the room can get stuffed into the closet? lumberjack_jeff May 2016 #36

Your sequencing is way off...Clinton led big among black voters until after the Iowa caucus BeyondGeography May 2016 #53

Very true, forgot about Obama's win in IA ... and Obama didn't lead among blacks until SC uponit7771 May 2016 #75

Iowa was everything BeyondGeography May 2016 #84

Yeap, I remember still supporting Clinton till after SC... My wife was still supporting Clinton afte uponit7771 May 2016 #92

As simple as that. ladjf May 2016 #56

THANK YOU!!! I mentioned that.. the dem base has changed, Sanders chose someone who called Obama uponit7771 May 2016 #71

Bullshit. Obama did not have the same obstacles as Sanders. He had different ones, but the PTB of merrily May 2016 #38

Like what? I suspect you'll not answer this like the rest of em haven't outside of "charisma" uponit7771 May 2016 #47

Huh? Did you read my post? merrily May 2016 #50

Yeah, I did... you named NO RULES that were different now than then other than what yoou uponit7771 May 2016 #58

Rules? When I read your OP, it said "obstacles." merrily May 2016 #59

Not anecdotal ones, I don't see what you outlined as obstacales and that's why I'm sticking to rules uponit7771 May 2016 #76

Do you mean state party rules? merrily May 2016 #79

ALL the rules, state & party...what rules changed that the process is rigged now vs when Obama ran? uponit7771 May 2016 #88

Is that what weaver was asked? The rules do change, but the question is a red herring. merrily May 2016 #90

OK, what RULES changed to make this a rigged system against Sanders vs Obama? Seems like uponit7771 May 2016 #98

Why would you imagine I would bother replying to a question that I just described as a red herring merrily May 2016 #99

How is the question a red herring? Sanders is saying the system is stacked against him and it doesnt uponit7771 May 2016 #101

And in your mind, the "system" refers only to Dem Party rules? merrily May 2016 #104

No, of course not but it's an emperical place to start... I don't see how being black and running... uponit7771 May 2016 #110

Oh, give it a rest. I never said being black was an advantage. To the contrary, I said Obama had merrily May 2016 #116

I never said you did, my point is Obama had more obstacles one being black uponit7771 May 2016 #121

No, you just posted to me over and over how you couldn't figure out how being black merrily May 2016 #132

True, it wasn't a net positive being black in the primary seeing how many white dems were voting uponit7771 May 2016 #152

Obama ran a hopeful positive campaign. Bernie started out that way timlot May 2016 #41

+1 uponit7771 May 2016 #69

+100! Surya Gayatri May 2016 #119

It's obvious. Obama was a great candidate with good policies. YouDig May 2016 #46

Thx, it sounds like podium bird is tellin em things are really rigged uponit7771 May 2016 #55

I'm surprised he didn't say Obama had the advantage of being non-white. Sounds his style. CrowCityDem May 2016 #49

BINGO!!! That's EXACTLY what I was thinking!! That eventually they'll call Obama's blackness a ... uponit7771 May 2016 #60

Weaver also admitted the Obama campaign ran a world class ground game. procon May 2016 #51

+1 uponit7771 May 2016 #61

+100! Surya Gayatri May 2016 #124

Reasons Obama was stronger than Sanders (against Clinton) thesquanderer May 2016 #52

In the beginning the SDs were for Hillary, they moved after Obama won PDs throught the campaign uponit7771 May 2016 #67

He started picking them up very early on. thesquanderer May 2016 #82

That was NOT early on, the SDs were HEAVY in favor of Clinton until the PD count went south for her uponit7771 May 2016 #87

Obama had the most Wall Street Money bahrbearian May 2016 #54

Sanders has outspent Clinton this primary nearly 2 to 1 in some areas so money isn't an issue uponit7771 May 2016 #62

Hillary's Supper Pac's aren't spending any money behind the scenes ? bahrbearian May 2016 #68

Not the amount that Sanders has spent, Sanders did prove emperically that the SPs aren't even needed uponit7771 May 2016 #78

2008 was a fair contest. Obama was not anointed in September 2007 jg10003 May 2016 #70

The SDs weren't heavy in favor of Clinton starting out?! Not only that but she had most of the ... uponit7771 May 2016 #81

EASY! Obama was a corporate democrat with half the establiment backing him! spinboas May 2016 #80

Not in the beginning they establishment switched AFTER the PD count went south for Clinton... uponit7771 May 2016 #83

He was funded by wall street which is part of the establishment. spinboas May 2016 #91

Not at first, that's bullshit on a stick... Obama did not start out with WS money or any of the uponit7771 May 2016 #94

Sanders fundraising story is just an extension of Obama 08 phleshdef May 2016 #130

Let's see... deathrind May 2016 #95

Your answer doesn't outline any empirical rule changes that make the system "stacked" against him vs uponit7771 May 2016 #100

Because he didn't have the same obstacles. Fawke Em May 2016 #102

Oh BULL FUCKIN SHIT!! They ran over 2700 hrs of Wright, it was counted as some of the most uponit7771 May 2016 #105

Obama put together a viable coalition to win mythology May 2016 #106

+1, and Obama didn't have this coalition until after SC.. blacks were strongly in favor of Clinton.. uponit7771 May 2016 #111

The Sanders crowd doesn't realize just how coddled their unvetted man has been BeyondGeography May 2016 #113

+1 uponit7771 May 2016 #115

^^^This!^^^ Surya Gayatri May 2016 #131

+1 Retrograde May 2016 #136

Exactly...Clinton has laid off because she never saw him as a threat BeyondGeography May 2016 #137

+1 uponit7771 May 2016 #142

to be fair, Clinton (well more Bill than Hill) kinda blew it with a few nasty comments forjusticethunders May 2016 #135

It's a different animal altogether... vi5 May 2016 #109

Oh jeff weaver!..Help bernie make it through.. the campaign!.. dubyadiprecession May 2016 #117

In Obama's case Southern black voters voted their ethnicity instead of the Establishment candidate. bklyncowgirl May 2016 #118

AT FIRST? No they did NOT!! Blacks were HEAVY in favor of Clinton, Obama WON people over... uponit7771 May 2016 #123

Really, you don't think that his bein black had nothing to do with it? bklyncowgirl May 2016 #138

OK, again... AT FIRST... blacks were for Clinton until after SC... polls were clear uponit7771 May 2016 #149

So you are saying that Obama's race had nothing at all with the shift in African-American support? bklyncowgirl May 2016 #158

SHIFT !! He had to earn it along with the establishment ..........Sanders never did and now he's uponit7771 May 2016 #160

And I believe that there were a large number of people eager to vote for a viable black candidate. bklyncowgirl May 2016 #165

Sanders had someone who called Obama niggerized last year stump for him in front of mostly uponit7771 May 2016 #166

Economic issues matter to everyone. bklyncowgirl May 2016 #171

Not as much with one group than the other, Wall Street is NOT everyones top boogyman and Sanders is uponit7771 May 2016 #177

Easy, he was a slightly undercover establishment candidate, the establishment was split, and Obama TheKentuckian May 2016 #120

He was in the senate for 2 years, that isn't even reality... there's no way someone can call Obama uponit7771 May 2016 #122

Shit, the fact he was in the Senate so briefly and could have the cache supports my position rather TheKentuckian May 2016 #140

No it doesn't, that's a CT not actual facts based on history. Clinton had the establsihment behind h uponit7771 May 2016 #150

They both had substantial establishment support, even those folks are not a collective hive mind. TheKentuckian May 2016 #173

Not from the start, that is false on its face and not even close to reality. Obama had grass roots.. uponit7771 May 2016 #174

Tell Tattoo and Mr. Roark I said "hey" TheKentuckian May 2016 #202

Sanders is not Obama by a long shot..Obama build bridges Sanders is doing the opposite. asuhornets May 2016 #127

yes he did, including to the banks. Including to insurance companies. That's why we got what JCanete May 2016 #183

Well, being President has always been a thankless job... asuhornets May 2016 #184

Just so you know, in many ways I'm a fan of Obama. JCanete May 2016 #187

I'm not 100% satisfied with Obama either. He was better than any Republican. asuhornets May 2016 #188

Easy, Obama was the establishment candidate kcjohn1 May 2016 #128

Someone in congress for 2yrs is establishment?! In that case Sanders is structure !! uponit7771 May 2016 #144

Because Obama is a once in a generation political talent. phleshdef May 2016 #129

Obama stayed postive even when he was still a long shot Retrograde May 2016 #134

Yes, his purity leads to him being cynical uponit7771 May 2016 #156

Great post. Imo, sums up both Bernie and President Obama nicely. PragmaticLiberal May 2016 #185

There were more automatic delegates in 2008 (852 delegates) LiberalFighter May 2016 #141

++++++++++++++DING DING DING !! Thread winnah+++++++++++++++++++++ uponit7771 May 2016 #145

Obama didn't have the same obstacles as Sanders. The question's premise is wrong. (nt) w4rma May 2016 #143

You're right, emperically Obama had it harder cause the number of PDs... thx uponit7771 May 2016 #146

Both Obama and Clinton were backed by Wall Street. (nt) w4rma May 2016 #148

Obama had no WS backing at the beginning of his campaign, he earned that after beating Clinton uponit7771 May 2016 #155

no Wall Street backing is different from establishment opposition. JCanete May 2016 #182

He did NOT ... NOT have the support Clinton had from the beginning, you guys are going further uponit7771 May 2016 #198

No, you are making an entirely different argument, one which I didn't disagree with. JCanete May 2016 #199

Yes, I agree... they started in a similar place... cept Obama earned votes Sanders ignored the uponit7771 May 2016 #210

As has been said many many times Sanders is no Obama. DCBob May 2016 #147

Obama is black. Bread and Circus May 2016 #153

He earned the black vote though, just like he earned the establishment support. Sanders earned neith uponit7771 May 2016 #154

Obama is likable, Sanders is not. hrmjustin May 2016 #159

+1, Sanders is looking more and more like someone who's out for himself. uponit7771 May 2016 #161

Sanders ego is huge. hrmjustin May 2016 #163

Please... there are plenty of examples, particularly in congress JCanete May 2016 #189

The Democratic Party nominates only "historic" candidates now. MadDAsHell May 2016 #164

AND he was black ... EffieBlack May 2016 #169

+1 uponit7771 May 2016 #170

President Obama was a household name by the time the first debates aired. he also Exilednight May 2016 #175

This is also false on its face, no he wasn't .. he was known among politicos he was not Donald Trump uponit7771 May 2016 #176

Obama did not have a harder path, "empirically." He had a differently hard path. JCanete May 2016 #178

This is false on its face, there were LESS PD's in 08 than 16... uponit7771 May 2016 #193

you're false on your face! jk, but that's the third time you've posted that. JCanete May 2016 #200

it must be nice to forget facts like Exilednight May 2016 #190

1. Irrelevant, most of the voting public doesn't look at conventions, 2. see 1, 3. see 1 4. He did uponit7771 May 2016 #192

you must not realize that nearly 40 million people saw that speech. Exilednight May 2016 #201

40 million != 130 million voting population. Either way, no one serious is claiming Obama had the... uponit7771 May 2016 #216

I guess you don't let being proven wrong get in the way of you beliefs. Exilednight May 2016 #218

No one relative to the support and backing Clinton has and you know I didn't mean "no one" literally uponit7771 May 2016 #219

no serious person would say that Sanders had half the infrastructure or Exilednight May 2016 #221

I disagree on factual basis; Sanders had 30 years in congress and is well known among politicos uponit7771 May 2016 #226

The DNC wasn't cheating in 2008 AgingAmerican May 2016 #179

ok, what did they do different now than what they did in 08? tia uponit7771 May 2016 #194

Obama had media coverage as soon as he announced, Sanders was ignored for months. Todays_Illusion May 2016 #180

Obama did NOT have the media coverage Sanders had when Sanders announced, you guys are now uponit7771 May 2016 #195

Thanks for your mature response: "just making shit up." Todays_Illusion May 2016 #203

Mature is facing reality, making shit up isn't facing reality; Sanders had less of an uphill battle uponit7771 May 2016 #209

Thanks for the speculation and opinion, You can provide no evidence to support what you call fact. Todays_Illusion May 2016 #225

That Obama didn't have the media coverage Sanders did when he annouced!? REALLY... uponit7771 May 2016 #227

That is what you are claiming to be a fact nt Todays_Illusion May 2016 #230

Bernie Sanders always says that Obama ran a historic campaign. Which he did. jillan May 2016 #181

Sanders has ALSO ran a historic campaign in the category of money raised without support of uponit7771 May 2016 #196

Personal Charisma. That's how. MineralMan May 2016 #186

You really think the Obama coalition is different than the Hillary coalition? cui bono May 2016 #191

Hopefully not, the Obama coalition is the dem base that Sanders overtly ignored and even uponit7771 May 2016 #197

Bernie Sanders spent a lot of time and money in South Carolina Eric J in MN May 2016 #206

That's not what Weaver said on a call link to voice call (link inside) uponit7771 May 2016 #207

After their TV ads in South Carolina did nothing Eric J in MN May 2016 #211

Then my statement rings true, he thought he could bypass the states Obama won and is now whining uponit7771 May 2016 #214

mmkay... cui bono May 2016 #239

Hopefully, been posting on DU since 03... and progressive is starting to sound like a four uponit7771 May 2016 #240

Obama had 25 debates with Clinton; Sanders had 9 debates with her. Eric J in MN May 2016 #204

This is false on its face, again.. yaw into making shit up... there were no 25 debates EXCLUSIVELY uponit7771 May 2016 #208

The debates between Clinton and Sanders Eric J in MN May 2016 #212

There were also less people running now than in 08, the debates didn't make Sanders ignore the uponit7771 May 2016 #213

If you had been Sanders' campaign manager Eric J in MN May 2016 #215

No doubt, I would've told him to get his ass out and pound ground because I know math... uponit7771 May 2016 #217

Obama was not and obviously is not anti-establishment. He represented one political faction. imagine2015 May 2016 #220

Bottom line Obama earned the support of the dem base and the establishment while Sanders ignored the uponit7771 May 2016 #229

June 14th .... LenaBaby61 May 2016 #228

That's such bullshit! glowing May 2016 #231

I agree, Weavers response was a bunch of bullshit and had not real good reason why Obama, being ... uponit7771 May 2016 #232

uponit7771�Obama had Wall Street�s support. CobaltBlue May 2016 #233

At first? really?! link and quote... he earned it cause he ran a kick ass campaign that didn't ignor uponit7771 May 2016 #234

uponit771�Here is one source.� CobaltBlue May 2016 #235

So Obama BEGAN his campaign that way or did he earn it after kicking ass? I see you along uponit7771 May 2016 #238

uponit7771�Here is another source� CobaltBlue May 2016 #237

Again, Obama started out a long shot and won and he's black... Sanders is whining and sounds uponit7771 May 2016 #241

This message was self-deleted by its author CobaltBlue May 2016 #236