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Gothmog

(145,291 posts)
13. Sanders has not been vetted at all yet
Tue May 24, 2016, 10:39 PM
May 2016

No one including people who like Sanders think that he has been fully vetted or that he is really electable http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/05/24/bernie-sanders-is-crushing-donald-trump-head-to-head-and-it-doesn-t-mean-a-thing.html

But I don’t know a single person whose opinions I really value, and I include here Sanders supporters I know, who takes these polls seriously. There’s one simple reason Sanders polls better against Trump than Clinton does, which is that no one (yet) knows anything negative about him. He’s gotten the freest ride a top-tier presidential candidate has ever gotten. The freest, bar none.

While he’s all but called Clinton a harlot, she’s barely said a word about him, at least since the very early days of the contest. And while Republicans have occasionally jibed at him, like Lindsey Graham’s actually quite funny remark that Sanders “went to the Soviet Union on his honeymoon and I don’t think he ever came back,” in far more serious ways, Republican groups have worked to help Sanders weaken Clinton.

That would change on a dime if he became the nominee. I don’t think they’d even have to go into his radical past, although they surely would. Michelle Goldberg of Slate has written good pieces on this. He took some very hard-left and plainly anti-American positions. True, they might not matter to anyone under 45, but more than half of all voters are over 45. And then, big-P politics aside, there’s all that farkakte nonsense he wrote in The Vermont Freeman in the early ’70s about how we should let children touch each others’ genitals and such. Fine, it was 40-plus years ago but it’s out there, and it’s out there.

But if I were a conservative making anti-Sanders ads, I’d stick to taxes. An analysis earlier this year from the Tax Policy Center found that his proposals would raise taxes in the so-called middle quintile (40-60 percent) by $4,700 a year. A median household is around $53,000. Most such households pay an effective tax rate of around 11 percent, or $5,800. From $5,800 to $10,500 constitutes a 45 percent increase.

Sanders will respond that your average family will save that much in deductibles and co-payments, since there would be no more private health insurance. And in a way, he’d have a point—the average out-of-pocket expenses for a family health insurance plan in 2015 were around $4,900. But that is an average that combines families with one really sick person needing lots of care with families where they all just go see the doctor once a year, who spend far less. They’d lose out under socialized health, which Republicans would be sure to make clear.

But all the above suggests a rational discourse, and we know there’ll be no such thing during a campaign. It’ll just be: largest tax increase in American history (which will be true), and take away your doctor (which also might be true in a lot of cases). There’s a first time for everything I guess, but I don’t think anyone has ever won a presidential election proposing a 45 percent tax increase on people of modest incomes. And the increases would be a lot higher on the upper-middle-class households that tend to decide U.S. elections.

Bah, you say. Bernie can handle all these things. Plus, he’s going to get all those white working-class votes that Clinton will never get. It’s true, he will get some of those. But every yin has a yang. How is Sanders going to do with black and Latino voters? They won’t vote for Trump, obviously, but surely some percentage will just stay home. This will matter in Florida, Virginia, North Carolina, maybe Michigan—all states were a depressed turnout from unenthused voters of color might make the difference. The media find discussing this a lot less interesting than they do nattering on about the white working class, but it’s real, and Trump is smart enough to get out there and say, “Remember, black people, Bernie said your votes weren’t legitimate.

General election polls don’t reflect anything meaningful until nominees are chosen and running mates selected—that is, July. They especially don’t reflect anything meaningful when respondents know very little about one of the candidates they’re being asked about. Superdelegates know this, and it’s one reason why they’re not going to change. I don’t blame Sanders for touting these polls; any politician would. But everyone subjected to hearing him do so is entitled to be in on the joke.

Sanders has not been vetted and would be a horrible general election candidate
THANK YOU!!!! oldandhappy May 2016 #1
You're entitled to your opinion. Thanks for letting us know how uncomfortable Bernie's polls make JudyM May 2016 #2
I wouldn't say they make us nervous as much as it bugs us that you people use them as a way anotherproletariat May 2016 #10
I stopped reading at "never vetted." You just lost all credibility. She found nothing to hit him JudyM May 2016 #11
People do not know him. The Repubs will keep on saying "Socialist" or "former Socialist" then kerry-is-my-prez May 2016 #16
The people supporting him are not the ones this would bother. We know better. JudyM May 2016 #28
Just how would electing Sanders take power from the corporations? The President can only veto and kerry-is-my-prez May 2016 #31
Please. Give me a lesson in the branches of government. JudyM May 2016 #32
Most Indies will vote as the party loyalists that they are. Garrett78 May 2016 #36
This isn't about how I feel. This is about reality. Garrett78 May 2016 #23
Pssst. THere are some interesting facts there in the OP too. nt BootinUp May 2016 #24
Check out the RCP averages for 2008 and 2012 icecreamfan May 2016 #3
Polls showed... Garrett78 May 2016 #19
Each of those campaigns were horribly flawed SheenaR May 2016 #21
And your assumption is that Trump will be the exception to the rule? Garrett78 May 2016 #25
No no SheenaR May 2016 #26
False, I linked the RCP polling average for McCain and Romney. Obama was beating them at this point. icecreamfan May 2016 #30
It isn't false. There were individual polls that had Obama trailing. Garrett78 May 2016 #33
Seriously? Averaging polls doesn't give a better picture than individual polls? icecreamfan May 2016 #34
It's backed up by some polls. Garrett78 May 2016 #35
Where was your tut tutting of the Clinton polls being rolled out four years ago? TheKentuckian May 2016 #4
Huh? Garrett78 May 2016 #18
Are you trying to convince us pmorlan1 May 2016 #5
I'm trying to get people to stop posting meaningless garbage as if it's meaningful. Garrett78 May 2016 #17
Translation: Hillary was just surpassed by Trump in national polls AgingAmerican May 2016 #6
No, it's simply a statement of fact. Garrett78 May 2016 #15
I answered upthread SheenaR May 2016 #22
First of all, elections aren't held then, which is sort of the point. Garrett78 May 2016 #27
And what's funny.... seekthetruth May 2016 #7
And she doesn't need the white millennials, male voters, nor the women with whom she has an insta8er May 2016 #8
Well it's not "meaningless" it's just historically not a great predictor of November Recursion May 2016 #9
I think it's fair to say they're meaningless at this juncture. Garrett78 May 2016 #14
Yup...and BERNIE is no different UMTerp01 May 2016 #12
There's kids who weren't around for McGovern, Mondale, and Dukakis. Also people who can afford kerry-is-my-prez May 2016 #20
It's kind of sad, but I'm sure there are still a lot of folks who don't know who Sanders is. Garrett78 May 2016 #29
Sanders has not been vetted at all yet Gothmog May 2016 #13
You don't think David Brock has vetted Sanders? Peace Patriot May 2016 #37
The Sanders-Peace narrative doesn't jibe with reality. Garrett78 May 2016 #38
Ah! So, now he's a warmonger. And what about Hillary? Peace Patriot May 2016 #39
+1000! nt nc4bo May 2016 #40
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