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pampango

(24,692 posts)
122. The multi-country trade agreement is not 'conservative ideology'. FDR created it, Sweden uses it
Tue Jun 7, 2016, 04:42 PM
Jun 2016

more than the US does. Neither FDR nor Sweden were or are unprogressive. I agree with Bernie that we should be more like Sweden.

Prior to FDR, the US trade policy was essentially "Trump-like" - high tariffs, imposed unilaterally with ultimate national sovereignty over the process. We imposed tariffs and other trade penalties whenever we wanted, for whatever reason we wanted and against whomever we wanted.

FDR (a 'phony progressive' perhaps?) did not like that. First he lowered tariffs with dozens of bilateral trade deals. Then he went a step further and introduced the International Trade Organization - a concept (a multi-country trade organization that would govern trade rules rather than national governments doing it) that had not existed before.

You may not like the concept. That is fine. But that does not mean that it is conservative ideology. It means that liberals can disagree about some policies and still be liberals.

Good morning rhett o rick Jun 2016 #1
Does Obama support the TPP? Zorro Jun 2016 #130
Is Obama a corporatist? rhett o rick Jun 2016 #131
Asked you first. Zorro Jun 2016 #132
Mine was an answer in the form of a question. He is a corporatist and he loves the TPP. rhett o rick Jun 2016 #133
If it's good enough for Obama then it's good enough for me Zorro Jun 2016 #134
It must be so comforting to blindly trust, but not Democratic. Skepticism is healthy. rhett o rick Jun 2016 #135
45 times Secretary Clinton pushed the trade bill she now opposes Loudestlib Jun 2016 #2
Hillary Cannot Tell The TRUTH On Her Best Day... Especially Re: Her Position On TPP! NOWWW CorporatistNation Jun 2016 #10
That is some in your face crap. Loudestlib Jun 2016 #12
This is clearly Clinton speak:"the President should listen to and work with his allies in Congress," rhett o rick Jun 2016 #17
She doesn't really oppose it. Anyone who believes she now magically does also NorthCarolina Jun 2016 #80
Corporate laws written by corporations for corporations and their profits. think Jun 2016 #3
The logic of the non-progressives befuddles me. They support the Major Corporations that rhett o rick Jun 2016 #42
The use of 'progressive' irritates me becasue it's normally associated with people appalachiablue Jun 2016 #78
They embrace the conservative ideology why can't they admit it? Rhetorical question. rhett o rick Jun 2016 #121
The multi-country trade agreement is not 'conservative ideology'. FDR created it, Sweden uses it pampango Jun 2016 #122
The way that the Dems have favored banks, corporations, free trade and regulation has been the...... dmosh42 Jun 2016 #4
What is frustrating is those that are so devoted to Clinton will not discuss Free Trade. rhett o rick Jun 2016 #24
Yes, you're so right. Not about what's best for the country, but being on the winning side! dmosh42 Jun 2016 #25
Hell no. VulgarPoet Jun 2016 #5
Yes. The trade deals have delivered. Recursion Jun 2016 #6
If everything is going so great why do so many people feel like they are barely surviving? Cheese Sandwich Jun 2016 #9
Why do people think crime is more common now than in the 1990s? Recursion Jun 2016 #13
Something tells me you're missing a huge part of the picture Cheese Sandwich Jun 2016 #19
Many people have their own statistics, but the government has showed a 20 yr downward trend for..... dmosh42 Jun 2016 #27
20 year? Proof please. 16 year maybe. tonyt53 Jun 2016 #28
Not even 16. Recursion Jun 2016 #34
Upward Recursion Jun 2016 #31
Nobody said the situation is perfect, far from it. Lord Magus Jun 2016 #30
^ That (nt) Recursion Jun 2016 #33
Barely making it because my trendy restaurant in the MyNameGoesHere Jun 2016 #36
Those may be backed up by the numbers forjusticethunders Jun 2016 #32
It actually is an argument, just not a tactful one Recursion Jun 2016 #57
There's research that shows the opposite, however forjusticethunders Jun 2016 #72
Your last paragraph gets to the point Recursion Jun 2016 #79
Seems we have different things in mind forjusticethunders Jun 2016 #98
The high cost of a college education is never figured into the snake oil statistics either think Jun 2016 #61
Yes it is: education costs are included in the CPI Recursion Jun 2016 #81
Where in this thread has anyone referred to the CPI except you in this post? think Jun 2016 #84
The CPI is the formula that adjusts for changing costs, so you brought it up (nt) Recursion Jun 2016 #85
Please show me where I brought the CPI up. think Jun 2016 #89
"The high cost of a college education is never figured into the snake oil statistics" Recursion Jun 2016 #90
I was referring to your snake oil statistics Recursion. You know the ones you create and post here. think Jun 2016 #92
Since we're talking about inflation-adjusted income, that means the CPI (nt) Recursion Jun 2016 #96
Pew Research: "For most workers, real wages have barely budged for decades" think Jun 2016 #99
Yup. But they rose more in the 2 decades after NAFTA Recursion Jun 2016 #103
Nope. Free Trade is a lie used to prevent wealth from trickling down. Orsino Jun 2016 #75
unemployment is higher, wages are lower, the poverty rate is higher and growing..... larkrake Jun 2016 #94
Well, other than the fact that all of those are false, that would be a good argument Recursion Jun 2016 #97
Who did they deliver for? Wall St Mnpaul Jun 2016 #125
Nope. And I will not support any politician who is for them. djean111 Jun 2016 #7
^^THIS^^ CharlotteVale Jun 2016 #46
We already have free trade with every TPP country. HooptieWagon Jun 2016 #8
^^^This^^^ 99Forever Jun 2016 #54
No we don't. Unless you consider ALL trade as being 'free' trade. pampango Jun 2016 #58
NO. And I fail to understand voters who also do not and yet who will vote for Hillary Triana Jun 2016 #11
I can explain it in one word, Authoritarian Adulation. rhett o rick Jun 2016 #18
Gotta be it. Triana Jun 2016 #22
The TPP is pure evil yourpaljoey Jun 2016 #14
Why do you oppose Brunei workers having a minimum wage? Recursion Jun 2016 #15
If they have a government capable of signing a deal then they have one capable of setting TheKentuckian Jun 2016 #23
We didn't wait; we forced them to implement one Recursion Jun 2016 #29
We didn't wait on them to set our minimum wage and if they don't want one it is on them. We should TheKentuckian Jun 2016 #129
Hell no. mmonk Jun 2016 #16
Easy one. Nope. NorthCarolina Jun 2016 #20
I hear you. I think a lot of people will join you. The neoliberals have taken control of rhett o rick Jun 2016 #40
nope. elana i am Jun 2016 #21
Of course they do Robbins Jun 2016 #26
No, I don't, especially after doctors without borders sadoldgirl Jun 2016 #35
According to polls, a lot more Democrats support 'free trade' than republicans. Trump read his base pampango Jun 2016 #37
Well Free Trade does have the word "Free" in it and I am afraid that's about as rhett o rick Jun 2016 #38
Apparently the republican base is not fooled by the "Free" the way Democrats are. pampango Jun 2016 #43
Is it free trade or free labor? EndElectoral Jun 2016 #39
No. I'm not a neolib. Tierra_y_Libertad Jun 2016 #41
Do you have an iPhone? Mac? a PC? a Flat Screen TV? A Samsung phone? Yavin4 Jun 2016 #44
What's your point? rhett o rick Jun 2016 #45
We live in a global economy Yavin4 Jun 2016 #48
No one said anything about doing away with trade. The TPP isn't about trade it's about empowering rhett o rick Jun 2016 #49
A guy called into a local show today Mnpaul Jun 2016 #47
But the key word is free. We are free to screw ourselves to make the corporations bigger and rhett o rick Jun 2016 #50
Then he isn't trying very hard; consumer reports even has a page for it Recursion Jun 2016 #55
There aren't any labor rules in the TPP Mnpaul Jun 2016 #60
And union leaders being murdered isn't a violation of the agreements either think Jun 2016 #62
If you had a real argument you wouldn't have to resort to a lie like that Recursion Jun 2016 #67
"But the document does not specify how any of those measures should work." think Jun 2016 #82
We don't tell them how to raise the minimum wage, we just make them do it Recursion Jun 2016 #83
SoS Clinton had no problem telling the govt of Haiti it had to lower it's minimum wage.... think Jun 2016 #86
Another reason I didn't vote for her (nt) Recursion Jun 2016 #88
But you just said we don't tell govts how to set the minimum wage. What happened? think Jun 2016 #91
Do we have an FTA with Haiti that I missed? (nt) Recursion Jun 2016 #95
So you're saying that with the TTP we can't influence the minimum wage but without it we can? think Jun 2016 #100
We did influence the minimun wage with the TPP Recursion Jun 2016 #101
We don't enforce the agreements we already have & the AFL-CIO prez calls the TPP a carbon copy: think Jun 2016 #105
And yet you want to take away the AFL-CIO's ability to sue Colombia over those outrages Recursion Jun 2016 #107
Bullshit. I want fair trade where the AFL-CIO sits at the damn table like Obama said he'd do think Jun 2016 #108
Yes, you do. They're suing right now (that's what that complaint is part of) Recursion Jun 2016 #109
If the unions were involved in drafting the FTAs they wouldn't be suing over the 99 murders think Jun 2016 #110
The FTAs are why they can sue Recursion Jun 2016 #112
Are you claiming unions wouldn't have the right to sue if they got to help draft the FTAs? think Jun 2016 #113
They did help to draft the FTAs (just not as much as I would have liked) Recursion Jun 2016 #114
"Unfortunately, our ideas were rejected." That's not helping draft the TTP. That's being shut out think Jun 2016 #117
99 union members and leaders were murdered in Columbia. CAFTA FAILED to protect those workers. think Jun 2016 #115
Well actually yes they are Recursion Jun 2016 #116
NO. The ILAB division of the Department of labor is in charge of over seeing FTA enforcement. think Jun 2016 #118
Since I never claimed that, I obviously haven't repeated it Recursion Jun 2016 #119
Why don't you back up your claims Mnpaul Jun 2016 #124
No NO and no. undergroundpanther Jun 2016 #51
... Scuba Jun 2016 #52
Maybe you should check out the facts about trade agreements. Sancho Jun 2016 #53
I clicked the first link ....Written by a member of a right-wing "freedom" think tank Armstead Jun 2016 #63
Other articles by DANIEL BIER...there's more than one person with that name Sancho Jun 2016 #66
I clicked to the links to the author....A true liberal bashing conservative Armstead Jun 2016 #69
Pick whatever sources you want. Very few will agree 100% with anyone. Sancho Jun 2016 #71
I agree with Ron Paul on certain things...like his opposition to the War in Iraq Armstead Jun 2016 #73
War? Trade? Sancho Jun 2016 #74
I'm not discussing the large subject of war...only as an example Armstead Jun 2016 #76
None of this matters because.. coco77 Jun 2016 #56
Some parts of all trade agreements are good for the US, some parts not. We will never get 100% Jitter65 Jun 2016 #59
Yeah those silly domestic laws should be gotten rid of to make life easier for Corporations Armstead Jun 2016 #64
This is a ridiculous argument though: the countries joining have to *raise* their minimum wage Recursion Jun 2016 #68
"We'll pay you $1.25 a day instead of $1." Armstead Jun 2016 #70
But right now, today, they can move to those countries and just pay $1 Recursion Jun 2016 #77
Who cares? Trade is now off the table. Along with fracking. Universal Health....etc. Armstead Jun 2016 #65
Absolutely. No reputable economist opposes free trade. Nye Bevan Jun 2016 #87
TPP 'worst trade deal ever,' says Nobel-winning economist Joseph Stiglitz think Jun 2016 #93
The TPP is not a "free trade agreement". Nye Bevan Jun 2016 #102
https://ustr.gov/trade-agreements/free-trade-agreements/trans-pacific-partnership/tpp-full-text think Jun 2016 #106
No (nt) bigwillq Jun 2016 #104
Kissinger helped spawn NAFTA. Octafish Jun 2016 #111
I'm currently living in my home state of Michigan. amandabeech Jun 2016 #120
Why do you always pick on Goldman Sachs, as opposed to Deutsche Bank, JP Morgan, or Barclays? Algernon Moncrieff Jun 2016 #123
PNTR for China is the culprit that NAFTA always gets blamed for Recursion Jun 2016 #126
If we have to ship jobs, I'd much rather keep them in Central America or the Caribbean Algernon Moncrieff Jun 2016 #128
Not only no shanti Jun 2016 #127
hell no and no! hopemountain Jun 2016 #136
Clinton Spokesman Brian Fallon on Hillary’s Economic Message | Video link below BootinUp Jun 2016 #137
No. I never have, LWolf Jun 2016 #138
HRC Owns TPP and Would Pass It As Well as TTIP amborin Jun 2016 #139
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