2016 Postmortem

tex-wyo-dem

(3,190 posts)

134. ..

Wed Jun 15, 2016, 11:26 AM

Jun 2016

Point 1: the attempt to blunt Clinton's wins in Deep South states was not racist by any stretch, it was mearly pointing out that these states have a very low probability of being in the blue column for the electoral college in Nov, which basically nullifies any votes for the Dem candidate in those states at the end of the day. I'll admit that this was a bit of a clumsy campaign tactic, but to claim it was somehow racist is ridiculous, discusting and wrong.

Point 2: Bill, Gore and Kerry didn't receive criticism for being part of the establishment because the environment is very different now, post Occupy WS, than it was back then. Hell, even the Repubs are dealing with the same anti-establishment phenomena...that's why Trump is the nominee. Criticisms of Hillary have nothing, zero, nada to do with her gender...it has everything to do with her establishment creds, her corruption and honesty problems.

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Before the big clampdown, I'm gonna say this [View all] Armstead Jun 2016 OP

This is the classic Third Way strategy - looks like it worked - djean111 Jun 2016 #1

Yep -- False Dichotomies are tasty, I guess Armstead Jun 2016 #2

The Third Way has elevated Sophie's Choice into a wildly profitable form of artfulness. n/t djean111 Jun 2016 #3

Perfectly put. nt Else You Are Mad Jun 2016 #151

! bobthedrummer Jun 2016 #183

!!! Pastiche423 Jun 2016 #212

Coin that phrase, djean111! MrMickeysMom Jun 2016 #229

Thanks! I have been saying that the Third Way gives us Sophie's Choice for quite a while. djean111 Jun 2016 #230

No one in the Democratic Party ever said this. randome Jun 2016 #24

Plenty of DUers were using sexism and... tex-wyo-dem Jun 2016 #103

Really? You mean that in your reality no one has ever said that. rhett o rick Jun 2016 #217

Yet never has this idea been seized upon as voraciously by "minority" voters, pitting them against highprincipleswork Jun 2016 #30

The Third Way, as a matter of fact, considers EVERYBODY is equal - we will ALL be victims djean111 Jun 2016 #104

Correct. nt ReasonableToo Jun 2016 #231

All money is white fasttense Jun 2016 #178

It was a hideous thing to behold. nt m-lekktor Jun 2016 #4

I think this is a bit of a strawman jcgoldie Jun 2016 #5

Thanks for saving me the trouble of writing what you wrote obamanut2012 Jun 2016 #6

Code for what? you can't deny the fact that at times she has outright Exilednight Jun 2016 #7

The fact that she's under criminal investigation AtomicKitten Jun 2016 #8

Last I checked investigation does not equal guilt. DCBob Jun 2016 #22

The OIG's report refutes a litany of her lies about the facts of the case. AtomicKitten Jun 2016 #26

Your comment referred to the FBI.. no? DCBob Jun 2016 #33

The IG report did not detail any laws being broken... tex-wyo-dem Jun 2016 #127

Please be more specific.. regarding the "lies". DCBob Jun 2016 #133

Here's a pretty good summary... tex-wyo-dem Jun 2016 #136

None of those are clear cut. DCBob Jun 2016 #138

Then why hasn't she? AgingAmerican Jun 2016 #143

Because for the most part she sees this as much ado about nothing. DCBob Jun 2016 #146

Well, okay, that's your filter I guess... tex-wyo-dem Jun 2016 #144

What dots? Please be more specific. DCBob Jun 2016 #147

Connect away... tex-wyo-dem Jun 2016 #150

I dont have time to go through all that. DCBob Jun 2016 #156

Why would you describe your personal opinion as a preview of a report you know nothing about? Kentonio Jun 2016 #218

Let's say it's an educated guess. DCBob Jun 2016 #226

Lol. NIce Spin and I mean it. Not "follow all the rules ... perfectly" lol Rilgin Jun 2016 #181

What are you talking about?? She complied with FOIA. DCBob Jun 2016 #185

No She didnt Rilgin Jun 2016 #187

She provided copies of all her work related emails to the State Dept. DCBob Jun 2016 #188

What part of 2 years after leaving office and under pressure do you not understand? Rilgin Jun 2016 #189

It took time to sort out the work related from the personal stuff. DCBob Jun 2016 #190

Lol. She started sorting years after leaving office. See post on what Report said about it(NT) Rilgin Jun 2016 #192

She did comply with the requirements of FOIA.. just not immediately. DCBob Jun 2016 #194

The report said "At a minimum" she was required to archive her emails when leaving office Rilgin Jun 2016 #191

I suspect its a common issue among high level officials to not always provide a complete archive.. DCBob Jun 2016 #193

Actually, I suspect most public officials like most lawyers follow the systems put in place Rilgin Jun 2016 #199

FYI.. most of what you claim I said, I didnt. DCBob Jun 2016 #214

Have not been talking about claasified.. Only foia and transparency Rilgin Jun 2016 #216

No one is going to jail for being late submitting FOIA documents. DCBob Jun 2016 #227

Nice strawmman. Find the word jail in any of my posts Rilgin Jun 2016 #239

So what's her penalty for being late? DCBob Jun 2016 #240

Not all problems are criminal.Perhaps its not being rewarded with the highest office in the Country. Rilgin Jun 2016 #245

I think you exaggerate this issue tremendously. DCBob Jun 2016 #247

This message was self-deleted by its author AtomicKitten Jun 2016 #31

And Sanders was under investigation regarding campaign finance laws. randome Jun 2016 #27

The way his trip to Italy is treated as a non-issue is a thing to behold.... bettyellen Jun 2016 #63

Yeah, that was ridiculous, too. randome Jun 2016 #71

They'd be calling to jail HRC for that too. Crazy. bettyellen Jun 2016 #77

Agreed!! nt eastwestdem Jun 2016 #206

We know what they'd be saying about Hillary for the same shit..... bettyellen Jun 2016 #211

Ain't THAT the damn truth! 60K to hang out in the lobby and "discuss" POVERTY with the pope Number23 Jun 2016 #224

Well said. auntpurl Jun 2016 #9

The big mistake Bernie made at the beginning..... Armstead Jun 2016 #44

Then we generally agree. auntpurl Jun 2016 #47

Yes. You are correct. bvar22 Jun 2016 #205

Agreed, but most of the problem stemmed from the fact that there was little of substance to actually eastwestdem Jun 2016 #207

Yes, I remember when Hillary chained herself to the post in Congress as a Senator... Armstead Jun 2016 #208

+1, "when you might get shot before your boat rises. " uponit7771 Jun 2016 #244

^^^This!^^^ Surya Gayatri Jun 2016 #16

Strawman? chervilant Jun 2016 #17

What about all the people who voted for her because they preferred her positions? auntpurl Jun 2016 #18

15,804,479 Stuckinthebush Jun 2016 #19

No... Armstead Jun 2016 #21

Hillary hate has always been based on gender. It came from men who could not deal with a strong upaloopa Jun 2016 #29

I have never met any Bernie supporter who didn't strongly support Elizabeth Warren virtualobserver Jun 2016 #53

Well, until last week. auntpurl Jun 2016 #57

which confirms that it was about Hillary, not gender. virtualobserver Jun 2016 #66

Dunno, didn't see the same kind of vitriolic rhetoric against Obama auntpurl Jun 2016 #67

because Obama and Hillary are both viewed as centrist.... virtualobserver Jun 2016 #72

Bingo. Else You Are Mad Jun 2016 #152

I hate warmongers, whether they have a penis John Poet Jun 2016 #97

Is it impossible for you to wrap your head around, we don't like her policies? Fuddnik Jun 2016 #157

+1000 sarae Jun 2016 #40

Here's one example from just this morning: surrealAmerican Jun 2016 #45

Discussing race and gender and the effects they have on how one perceives situations ismnotwasm Jun 2016 #114

Strawman? You do know what that means, right? lumberjack_jeff Jun 2016 #120

.. tex-wyo-dem Jun 2016 #134

What's the difference? bonemachine Jun 2016 #135

I agree with your analysis Gothmog Jun 2016 #142

Its because she's been around too long already arikara Jun 2016 #196

+1, Weaver and Divine admitted not competing in "southern states" & Sanders lost by over 2 mil votes uponit7771 Jun 2016 #243

Life is in session, Armstead, and there really is a difference between the parties BeyondGeography Jun 2016 #10

Life is always in session and the GOP is an ever present threat Armstead Jun 2016 #32

+ 100 K & R ancianita Jun 2016 #219

Operative words "believe" and "had"..... bettyellen Jun 2016 #233

Believe is the operative word for everyone here and elsewhere regardless of their opinion Armstead Jun 2016 #234

K&R Spot On! B Calm Jun 2016 #11

".. playing right into the hands of the GOP and Big Money and Big Power." Scuba Jun 2016 #12

In addition to my reply above... auntpurl Jun 2016 #13

We'll see. I hope you are correct Armstead Jun 2016 #35

Those people are a vocal minority. auntpurl Jun 2016 #36

I've been browsing the front page of GDP. LWolf Jun 2016 #14

Well we feel the same about you and yours. My guess is the months and years of other interests will upaloopa Jun 2016 #23

Hillary has said many times auntpurl Jun 2016 #25

Hillary says a lot of things. Beowulf Jun 2016 #48

She'll fight for your rights and prosperity too. auntpurl Jun 2016 #51

Saying so don't make it so. Beowulf Jun 2016 #58

Hillary has been a dedicated public servant for 30 years auntpurl Jun 2016 #60

So was Richard Nixon. Beowulf Jun 2016 #96

Nixon supported a guaranteed basic income. Nt lostnfound Jun 2016 #179

And founded the EPA. nt Lyric Jun 2016 #213

I see it. LWolf Jun 2016 #62

I find the best way to forgive is simply to feel sadness for the betrayer. Kentonio Jun 2016 #220

Yes. LWolf Jun 2016 #232

Absolutely. Kentonio Jun 2016 #246

TELL me about it. Miles Archer Jun 2016 #34

I took everyone off of ignore. Primary is over. nt Demsrule86 Jun 2016 #74

I just did the same. 30 names. auntpurl Jun 2016 #75

No one has said that focusing on economic justice is racist or sexist Nonhlanhla Jun 2016 #15

No, it is having a focus on economic justice at all that is the problem as far as I can see TheKentuckian Jun 2016 #40

Pushing for economic justice is not a problem Nonhlanhla Jun 2016 #83

"The Just Us system" All in it together Jun 2016 #174

The point is that Bernie folks had to be taught the lesson you just described. upaloopa Jun 2016 #20

That phony characterization was started long before the first primary was held Armstead Jun 2016 #70

Ah Yes, We Must Be Made To Heel!! ChiciB1 Jun 2016 #167

Brocialist* Octafish Jun 2016 #28

Bingo tonyt53 Jun 2016 #46

they really can't fob this sort of rhetoric outside of Jezebel/Medium/college commons MisterP Jun 2016 #203

To Detroit, Joe Biden brought busses Octafish Jun 2016 #209

the worst part for me has been Demsrule86 Jun 2016 #37

If many other male senators had run I would have said the same thing, so.... Armstead Jun 2016 #73

It was about gender. Demsrule86 Jun 2016 #82

If Charles Schumer were to run, I'd have said the same thing Armstead Jun 2016 #93

The problem is, your man was essentially a single-issue candidate Tarc Jun 2016 #38

It's also a general philosophical disagreement about whether the system is broken or not auntpurl Jun 2016 #42

I think your conclusion is very wrong. Kentonio Jun 2016 #221

He was focused on bringing out an issue that the Democrats have ignored since.... Armstead Jun 2016 #79

I'm sure he did, but most voters weren't interested Tarc Jun 2016 #112

To our collective detrement Armstead Jun 2016 #160

Actually a post like this should be allowed in the new DU "World Order". DCBob Jun 2016 #39

Progressive equals entitled? HassleCat Jun 2016 #43

Exactly -- We've lost a holistic sense that it all ties together Armstead Jun 2016 #50

Tell that to the voters rjsquirrel Jun 2016 #49

No....I am not blaming people who voted for her Armstead Jun 2016 #54

As far as I can tell Demsrule86 Jun 2016 #86

He did NOT call abortion rights a distraction.That was Rachel Maddow's disingenuous framing of his myrna minx Jun 2016 #200

You think what you posted supports the position did not consider abortion a distraction? Demsrule86 Jun 2016 #237

"But it's ridiculous to say..." BumRushDaShow Jun 2016 #52

You are right. Racism is a systemic problem. Armstead Jun 2016 #64

But it was initially seperated. And those who pointed it out were attacked and accused of working bettyellen Jun 2016 #76

It's a campaign with millions of people Armstead Jun 2016 #85

It's not "sensitivity" to notice the most common sexist/ racist trope- the concept that some should bettyellen Jun 2016 #95

I'm glad you are a mindreader Armstead Jun 2016 #105

You'd actually benefit from reading up about sexist tropes because you've treated us all to quite a bettyellen Jun 2016 #197

"But that doesn't mean it has to be separated" BumRushDaShow Jun 2016 #101

I agree with that Armstead Jun 2016 #108

Your definition of "material" BumRushDaShow Jun 2016 #111

I refer to material as things like.... Armstead Jun 2016 #115

I understand however what continues to be missed is that BumRushDaShow Jun 2016 #125

Economics is why there are food deserts Armstead Jun 2016 #155

Still missing the point BumRushDaShow Jun 2016 #180

You're missing MY point Armstead Jun 2016 #215

My pre-clampdown conclusion.... democrank Jun 2016 #55

"The practical side of life for everyone"= human rights are not practical. okay then. bettyellen Jun 2016 #56

No one is saying that, and if you insist on believing it, then we have nothing to say to each other Armstead Jun 2016 #65

If you don't get how this "practical" shit is fucking insulting then you've learned nothing... bettyellen Jun 2016 #69

Tilting at windmills with no hope of succeeding may feel good Demsrule86 Jun 2016 #89

If you don't get that I am not saying it is eitehr/or then you've learned nothing Armstead Jun 2016 #92

It's ridiculous to say that Hillary and her supporters don't want to address economic justice. YouDig Jun 2016 #59

We can legitimately disagree about ends and means on the economic issues Armstead Jun 2016 #68

That is what the primary was about. YouDig Jun 2016 #81

I disagree about the nature of the Clinton reactions Armstead Jun 2016 #90

Human rights are essential, should never have been called secondary. bettyellen Jun 2016 #98

I don't know about the posts here saying that. I didn't make them, and haven't really seen them. YouDig Jun 2016 #99

Amen. n/t Tom Rinaldo Jun 2016 #61

You are wrong. Evergreen Emerald Jun 2016 #78

Short and sweet....And I would just reply that so are you Armstead Jun 2016 #87

Yes...but you are wrong. Evergreen Emerald Jun 2016 #88

You are wronger Armstead Jun 2016 #91

The responses in this thread say it all Hydra Jun 2016 #80

Great post. Smarmie Doofus Jun 2016 #84

You miss the point-there are valid reasons for African Americans and others to not support Sanders Gothmog Jun 2016 #94

No...I agree with you that there are valid reasons to not support Sanders Armstead Jun 2016 #100

Social justice concerns are not the reason why Sanders failed to attract key groups in the base Gothmog Jun 2016 #141

Shit-stirrer WillyT set up the false dichotomy of economic v social issues. With tons of recs emulatorloo Jun 2016 #102

I agree with you workinclasszero Jun 2016 #107

I am not saying that we were all lily pure Armstead Jun 2016 #110

Trust me, my post is not about WillyT, it is about those who validated and amplified his message emulatorloo Jun 2016 #116

going to.....? yes? Armstead Jun 2016 #117

I added a sentence while you were replying emulatorloo Jun 2016 #121

I hope you are correct Armstead Jun 2016 #159

Just going by past history of DU's primary mode to GE mode transition. I hope you hang around to emulatorloo Jun 2016 #161

Yes, so much early constructive criticism. stranger81 Jun 2016 #163

That is clearly not one of the posts I was talking about. emulatorloo Jun 2016 #165

No, your team owns that. And has doubled down on it at every opportunity this election cycle. stranger81 Jun 2016 #168

I wrote "I do recognize that at some point unscrupulous HRC posters did run emulatorloo Jun 2016 #172

The "at some point" happens to be in May 2015. stranger81 Jun 2016 #175

So we disagree on when it started. I don't have any problem with that. emulatorloo Jun 2016 #177

+ a million, loo. I went through the rec list of WillyT's posts and blocked people from the AA forum Number23 Jun 2016 #225

More important for Hillary to prove she's progressive than for voters to prove they are not sexist. ancianita Jun 2016 #106

I have no need to prove the latter...and I doubt she can convince me of the former. Lizzie Poppet Jun 2016 #113

Agree. Most of her supporters know it, too, but make that claim. ancianita Jun 2016 #119

Because it will fool at least a few voters. Lizzie Poppet Jun 2016 #122

Glib toss-off mocks on this thread are a reflection of that attitude. ancianita Jun 2016 #123

You're deliberately misconstruing an argument La Lioness Priyanka Jun 2016 #109

Binary thinking is not a virtue. It was a weakness, and one of the factors that ... NurseJackie Jun 2016 #126

For which I am very grateful La Lioness Priyanka Jun 2016 #131

Your mileage varies from mine Armstead Jun 2016 #149

People who dismiss the black vote as unimportant La Lioness Priyanka Jun 2016 #162

It is reflective of a general lack of imagination. lumberjack_jeff Jun 2016 #118

Which is why poor and working class people voted overwhelmingly for Bernie. auntpurl Jun 2016 #139

And ironically... Wednesdays Jun 2016 #124

That's one of the things that bugs me about it Armstead Jun 2016 #148

Thank you! K&R'd. snot Jun 2016 #128

Thank you! K&R'd. snot Jun 2016 #129

Goodbye DU pengu Jun 2016 #130

Accusations of sexism was a far better tact that having to talk "policy". NorthCarolina Jun 2016 #132

The same people used all the same tactics to dismiss LGBT activists until recently DemocraticWing Jun 2016 #137

Abortion and women's rights, gay rights, civil rights and immigration are 'wedge issues' felix_numinous Jun 2016 #140

Rational thinking has no effect on them. Just like the GOP pdsimdars Jun 2016 #145

This primary tried to accomplish the full and complete discrediting of actual progressive ideas. arcane1 Jun 2016 #153

This party has mistreated the independent voters. They are expected to fall in line or get zip. floriduck Jun 2016 #154

Bernie is more like the Wicker Man ymetca Jun 2016 #158

Thank you, Armstead. Arugula Latte Jun 2016 #164

So Many Of Us Here Are Thinking The Very Same Thing... ChiciB1 Jun 2016 #166

I no longer believe in the Rainbow Coalition. Dems to Win Jun 2016 #169

Jesse Jackson Endorsed Hillary Clinton jamese777 Jun 2016 #201

Post removed Post removed Jun 2016 #170

Amen SheenaR Jun 2016 #171

the last day and you come up with a crappy OP like THIS......you can do better. stonecutter357 Jun 2016 #173

To care about income inequality and corruption is a privileged position TheFarseer Jun 2016 #176

Lucky You! You can whine for five more days... brooklynite Jun 2016 #182

I can whine forever if I want to Armstead Jun 2016 #204

Racism and sexism are a huge problem in our azmom Jun 2016 #184

"One can not be an Economic Progressive Populist without also being racist and sexist?" jack_krass Jun 2016 #186

Posts like yours are why I come here. Juicy_Bellows Jun 2016 #195

Very well said. It's a nuanced and sensitive topic to tackle. Avalux Jun 2016 #198

even saying that you want banker criminals prosecuted is "privilege" MisterP Jun 2016 #202

Post of the year right here! jonestonesusa Jun 2016 #210

The saddest thing for me was seeing that 'attack your opponent on their strengths' Kentonio Jun 2016 #222

K&R nt Live and Learn Jun 2016 #223

The reason it makes no damned sense ... MrMickeysMom Jun 2016 #228

The unusual thing about the current circumstances... tom-servo Jun 2016 #235

The symbolism is great, but we're electing a President not a symbol Armstead Jun 2016 #236

agreed. tom-servo Jun 2016 #238

tl;dr 'my issues are more important than everyone else's because I think so' anigbrowl Jun 2016 #241

It's more a matter of getting back into balance Armstead Jun 2016 #248

All of this I agree with, to be sure .nt anigbrowl Jun 2016 #249

Well said. Uncle Joe Jun 2016 #242