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Hoyt

(54,770 posts)
31. First off, why is it always from our/USA perspective? What about poor counties who we have not
Mon Jul 4, 2016, 12:56 PM
Jul 2016

participated in world wealth. The USA has taken more than it's share of the world's resources and wealth, and that's true for a lot of European countries. Now we want to win all the money at a poker game and leave.

Second, how do side agreements -- like the Paris Environmental Accord -- factor into all this? That is, why do people expect a trade agreement to solve all the world's problems? What if Clinton is able to enact some controls on currency manipulation to supplement trade agreements. Point is, one can't look at trade agreements in isolation, but opponents do.

Actually the TPP does strengthen international labor protections -- not enough, I'll grant you, but better than the current situation and something to build upon. Maybe with a country's progress, there will be enough dues money for so-called "international" unions to actually do something internationally.

As to corporations bypassing US Law -- there's that Nationlistic "who give a crud about foreigners" again -- that really is a bunch of junk if you look into the few cases that have been filed. The same dispute mechanism has been in place in darn near every trade agreement since 1959, and not just agreements which USA is party to. Countries sign these agreements for obvious reasons, they want the investment, jobs, taxes for social purposes that come from jobs. If they didn't want the investment, they wouldn't sign the agreements.

Trade agreements help small companies trade worldwide too. They are not as likely to trade worldwide on a large sclae, because it takes capital and fact is, a bunch of small business people just cant's raise the funds very easy to do it.

You can't stop globalization, so might as well jump in and participate rather than sitting out or getting pushed out. The Nationalists and America First types are quite wrong on this. Our long-term future does not depend on trading among ourselves, unless we are prepared to use our bombs some day to regain our wealth. I'm not.

Finally, trade agreements are much more than about trade. They bind us together with other countries in very important ways.

Personally, if Sanders or someone else can set up a new economic mechanism to compete globally, raise necessary investment funds, manage the cooperative successfully (by letting everyone of us be heard), and all the other stuff that would be required, I'd be for it 100%. But, right now -- and for the foreseeable future -- corporations are the mechanism who can do that. Most of us work for corporations, directly or indirectly, so regulate the hell out of them, tax the hell out of of profits from overseas investment (for domestic country's good and that of the country where they do business), force them to adopt more socially responsible activities (probably through tax incentives), and even assist them if they do all those things. If you want this generation to be better off than the last (using the standard people seem to be using like income, wealth, etc.), taking every penny we can from the wealthy won't do much but for a short period, if that. Might make us feel better by "sticking it to the man," but that's about all we'll get out of it.

Point is, we aren't going to be able to afford healthcare, education, welfare, guaranteed income, increased minimum wage, etc., very long without being part of a big old world that can grow faster than us. Trading manly among ourselves, just won't work long-term.

There's more, but what's the use.

Why are so many democrats carrying water for free trade now?? hollowdweller Jul 2016 #1
So the question was Andy823 Jul 2016 #3
You noticed the same thing I am seeing FreakinDJ Jul 2016 #4
This. n/t ms liberty Jul 2016 #6
We are all one happy family now PowerToThePeople Jul 2016 #7
"we" didnt prop wall street that's a wingerish meme "we" are sick of people spouting wingerish memes uponit7771 Jul 2016 #16
QE1, QE2, QE3, QE4, ect ect ect Ring a Fucking Bell FreakinDJ Jul 2016 #47
.that^ 840high Jul 2016 #53
Dogmatic isn't progressive, there's a reason why we do trade and not isolate ourselves uponit7771 Jul 2016 #15
And yet we do major trade boycotts such as the sanctions against South Africa Bluenorthwest Jul 2016 #66
Since when were Democrats about protectionism? Lord Magus Jul 2016 #55
The OP referred to "trade agreements" not "free trade." How would the US pnwmom Jul 2016 #62
Making it really easy to undo would be a start. bemildred Jul 2016 #2
Easy to leave and NOT keep the benefits of the trade agreements? tia... uponit7771 Jul 2016 #17
Of course. "No coercion". That would apply to all participants. nt bemildred Jul 2016 #18
So pretty much Brexit would lower the current GDP of Britain right now seeing they just voted to... uponit7771 Jul 2016 #22
AFL-CIO: "Ten Critical Problems with the Trans-Pacific Partnership" think Jul 2016 #5
These are 5 reasons to be against the TPP. Else You Are Mad Jul 2016 #10
thanks for posting FreakinDJ Jul 2016 #13
This reads whats not to like in TPP, I'm asking for 3 things every trade agreement has to have to... uponit7771 Jul 2016 #19
These are 10 things that should be considered in EVERY trade agreement. think Jul 2016 #25
First off, why is it always from our/USA perspective? What about poor counties who we have not Hoyt Jul 2016 #31
Why should it be the perspective of over 500 US corporate lobbyists & executives? think Jul 2016 #32
I believe many here, view foreign workers as competition, little more than scabs. The hatred shows. Hoyt Jul 2016 #33
Trump supporters might have a disgusting opinion like that but Democrats & Unions want FAIR trade think Jul 2016 #34
How would the USTR address foreign murders? I agree it's revolting, but are we supposed to bomb Hoyt Jul 2016 #35
Bomb them? Good grief. Can we be realistic here and not engage is sensationalization? think Jul 2016 #37
Unions want to restrict competition for their members, and I understand that. Hoyt Jul 2016 #39
You're the only one HERE who keeps calling workers in other countries scabs. think Jul 2016 #44
They are considered scabs when people complain that they will work for less, even if no one Hoyt Jul 2016 #45
Weeping crocodile tears about "the poor" Lydia Leftcoast Jul 2016 #58
Let's assume that's true for a moment, better than not caring about other Hoyt Jul 2016 #59
Because NAFTA has been so good for Mexico? Lydia Leftcoast Jul 2016 #63
Farmers making 50 cents a day are getting jobs at higher pay, some much higher $8/hour at Audi, etc. Hoyt Jul 2016 #64
What if these problems were fixed before anyone attempted to pass this? DemonGoddess Jul 2016 #48
AFL-CIO: "Labor's So-Called "Seat at the Table" at TPP Negotiations" think Jul 2016 #49
Froman has many, many more years as a government official. Unions' position has been clear, no Hoyt Jul 2016 #60
Lots of small businesses and international businesses in FL are in favor of TPP... Sancho Jul 2016 #8
How about Big Pharma's manipulation of Drug Prices FreakinDJ Jul 2016 #12
The TPP won't stop manipulation of drug prices... Sancho Jul 2016 #14
There is only one good reason for a trade deal, RDANGELO Jul 2016 #9
America doesn't have all the resources to everything, the notion that we do is false and I agree.... uponit7771 Jul 2016 #20
My list katsy Jul 2016 #11
Thx for your responce. on 1 what would a country or corp do if they law of the land is lax like the uponit7771 Jul 2016 #21
On 1: i think that resolution remains in the political arena katsy Jul 2016 #30
Not having it written by Lobbyists, All Pacific Rim including China--Right now China benefits most! TheBlackAdder Jul 2016 #23
Enforceable commitments to labor, environmental and regulatory standards. pampango Jul 2016 #24
I agree, our CURRENT displacement laws suck and aren't enforced at all.. corps are ALLOWED to... uponit7771 Jul 2016 #26
I've heard both that labor and environmental standards not enforced well enough, pampango Jul 2016 #27
Pretty much this forjusticethunders Jul 2016 #38
+1 uponit7771 Jul 2016 #41
There are no "three things." PowerToThePeople Jul 2016 #28
So displacement laws strengthed sounds like its at the top of most people's list. Our displacement uponit7771 Jul 2016 #40
I think I agree with this assessment. PowerToThePeople Jul 2016 #42
1. That nation that has the highest human and environmental standards shall dictate all conditions. Alex4Martinez Jul 2016 #29
Since our labor standards are so low, we'll only be "dictating" conditions with Third World pampango Jul 2016 #46
Fair trade AgingAmerican Jul 2016 #36
My 3 things: Amimnoch Jul 2016 #43
I only have one... JSup Jul 2016 #50
I agree, up thread some talked about displacement laws being too lax. If they displacement laws were uponit7771 Jul 2016 #51
I don't care to legitimize nor empower governments that abuse and oppress minority populations. Bluenorthwest Jul 2016 #52
Neither do I. 840high Jul 2016 #54
uponit7771—None. And that is also my answer to the issue of fracking. CobaltBlue Jul 2016 #56
Judicial power of the states involved in disputes should not be diminished The Second Stone Jul 2016 #57
It's too late ibegurpard Jul 2016 #61
Whatever they may be, I can bet they would be 3 things that would imbalance the deal so much as to BobbyDrake Jul 2016 #65
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