2016 Postmortem

democrattotheend

(12,011 posts)

101. I remember Kerry and Edwards being criticized a lot for it in 2004

Reply to La Lioness Priyanka (Original post)

Mon Jul 11, 2016, 06:43 PM

Jul 2016

It was one of the reasons Dean gained traction.

That said, I put Hillary in a slightly different category than the others because she didn't just vote for it - she went to the Senate floor and gave a long speech urging support for it. That's a lot different from Kerry, who made it clear that he was voting for it reluctantly and only doing so to strengthen President Bush's hand at the UN in hopes of avoiding war.

While I see your point about Hillary representing the state hit hardest by 9/11, it was obvious to anyone who paid attention at that time that Saddam Hussein and Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11.

I could forgive Hillary for her vote for the Iraq war 14 years ago, but it is not the only evidence that she is more hawkish than I am comfortable with. I will still vote for her and I want her to win, but her history of aggressively favoring military engagements troubles me.

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I've never understood why Kerry did not face the same level of wrath from Democrats over [View all] La Lioness Priyanka Jul 2016 OP

It's like sesame street jcgoldie Jul 2016 #1

Because the IWR was just an excuse for Clinton hatred, nothing more. Hoyt Jul 2016 #2

DING! DING! DING! DING! baldguy Jul 2016 #82

Bingo! eom BlueCaliDem Jul 2016 #126

Actually, the IWR was a critically important vote and test of judgment & qualifications Martin Eden Jul 2016 #149

No, it was vote to give g war bush leverage to end the Iraq situation. bush misused authorization. Hoyt Jul 2016 #183

Anyone who believed that was a FOOL Martin Eden Jul 2016 #184

They are voting what is in front of them. Bush owns breaking the agreement. Nt seabeyond Jul 2016 #185

Sorry, I disagree, but would love to see some of the links from 2002 that had it all figured out. Hoyt Jul 2016 #187

Are you saying that GW Bush didn't act in good faith? Martin Eden Jul 2016 #188

She made it very clear in her speech that she was not voting for war. KMOD Jul 2016 #204

Post removed Post removed Jul 2016 #205

rude KMOD Jul 2016 #209

True ... Martin Eden Jul 2016 #222

It's neither of your scenarios. KMOD Jul 2016 #224

If you believe Hillary was telling the truth, then you think she was fooled. Martin Eden Jul 2016 #225

http://www.cfr.org/iraq/remarks-senator-hillary-rodham-clinton-transcript/p6600 KMOD Jul 2016 #231

I was Bok_Tukalo Jul 2016 #226

That depends what is being characterized Martin Eden Jul 2016 #228

...and that is why the Democrats immediately bought full page ads in every national newspaper, bvar22 Jul 2016 #199

Absolutely. And some of us were out protesting before long, too. lostnfound Jul 2016 #200

You nailed it! nt One of the 99 Jul 2016 #154

Thank you! That's it exactly! ~~ Just look at Susan Sarandon ... NurseJackie Jul 2016 #198

Not only her state attacked, 87% of the nation wanted it, two weeks before the 2002 election. seabeyond Jul 2016 #3

It seems Bush doesn't even face the same level of wrath over the IW. nt. NCTraveler Jul 2016 #4

+1! eom BlueMTexpat Jul 2016 #47

Yup, insane! obamanut2012 Jul 2016 #148

Oh but the purist circular firing squad did indeed do their thing... whatthehey Jul 2016 #5

there was criticism of Kerry, but no way did in parallel the Clinton hate over the IWR La Lioness Priyanka Jul 2016 #7

Are you kidding? The 2004 primaries were a huge brawl, here. Warren DeMontague Jul 2016 #61

It was not what was campaigned against him. Or any of the others. Ya, on DU, HUGE brawl, I am sure. seabeyond Jul 2016 #69

If one really wants to dig, my posts are in there, somewhere. Warren DeMontague Jul 2016 #78

Maybe that is the difference. News obsessed and home 24/7. The impeachment did that seabeyond Jul 2016 #83

I was in Northern California at the time, so no doubt it was a different universe politically. Warren DeMontague Jul 2016 #117

You are right there. That is when my Repug husband said he would not vote Republican again. seabeyond Jul 2016 #119

Something else. I know in my red and military area, I was using the War and Bush, not Kerry, seabeyond Jul 2016 #87

John Edwards wasn't criticized for his Iraq vote either when he ran in 2008. annavictorious Jul 2016 #106

He was by me. Warren DeMontague Jul 2016 #116

yes he was, beyond that he was attacked as a phony karynnj Jul 2016 #159

That's the way I remember it, too. Rhiannon12866 Jul 2016 #141

Correct. n/t whathehell Jul 2016 #227

"So, you are good with murdering women and children" Was the consistent comment I received seabeyond Jul 2016 #62

Oh, Lord. If that comment isn't the hallmark of the asshole pretending to be a Democrat, I don't Squinch Jul 2016 #73

I won't do "So's" anymore. Start it with a so statement, and I am so outta there. Lol. Nt seabeyond Jul 2016 #79

Ha! You and me both! Warren DeMontague Jul 2016 #118

was there a splintered group that kept up the attacks after the primary like JPR DLCWIdem Jul 2016 #140

God knows. Before my time even lurking. There's no derangement like CDS tho' whatthehey Jul 2016 #169

No, not at all. whathehell Jul 2016 #229

As Hoyt says, with a HUGE clue here: Hortensis Jul 2016 #6

Looks like jcgoldie Jul 2016 #8

yup. she was super popular when she was Secy of State and right after she stepped down La Lioness Priyanka Jul 2016 #9

I wish I could find the article NewJeffCT Jul 2016 #21

That is the way I remember it PatSeg Jul 2016 #36

I think that was the gist of the article NewJeffCT Jul 2016 #40

Also PatSeg Jul 2016 #51

The Gallup poll says that only 13% chose her as most admired... Human101948 Jul 2016 #155

Exactly. Hortensis Jul 2016 #11

So true. sarae Jul 2016 #35

the divergence started before she announced for POTUS AntiBank Jul 2016 #29

Yes, in March and April of 2015. Prior, and I mean just prior, I was seeing polls with her high. seabeyond Jul 2016 #89

Clinton's book and the interviews around it happened then karynnj Jul 2016 #164

That is not what happened Karynnj. Her book didnt hurt her. It was a blip. What happened seabeyond Jul 2016 #167

All those things happened at the same time karynnj Jul 2016 #170

What I do know that I saw, is the attacks were on Obama. Suddenly, enough to draw my attention the seabeyond Jul 2016 #171

Bingo! eom BlueMTexpat Jul 2016 #49

I think that is the conclusion we can make. In honesty. I was staying out of politics, not a Clinton seabeyond Jul 2016 #77

Isn't that interesting. I know some think I play it, but women my age LIVE this. We KNOW seabeyond Jul 2016 #63

Well, her campaign is the very definition of "uppity-ness." Some people don't like it when Squinch Jul 2016 #76

Even among Dems, everything is worse when a Clinton does it. I don't know why.... CrowCityDem Jul 2016 #10

women who are viewed as agentic (assertive, ambitious, leader like) are generally La Lioness Priyanka Jul 2016 #12

Well said PatSeg Jul 2016 #37

+1 sarae Jul 2016 #162

Women tend to be likable enough PatSeg Jul 2016 #189

Well said.. whathehell Jul 2016 #230

Thank you PatSeg Jul 2016 #232

You're welcome.. whathehell Jul 2016 #233

part of why her Iraq vote is still in play is Obama hammering her in 2008 AntiBank Jul 2016 #31

But after Kerry, it should be a trivial issue. She's apologized enough. CrowCityDem Jul 2016 #34

it still resonates with many people, plus her tenure as SoS did nothing to alleviate the fears that AntiBank Jul 2016 #43

But again, she is no out of line with most elected Dems, yet she gets far more hate. CrowCityDem Jul 2016 #68

"it still resonates with many people," No it does not. How do we know? Not a single other policitian seabeyond Jul 2016 #93

Bingo. bettyellen Jul 2016 #176

Obama isn't as critisized DLCWIdem Jul 2016 #128

People swallowed hard and overlooked it bbmykel Jul 2016 #13

But people can't overlook her vote? mcar Jul 2016 #41

That wasn't the choice bbmykel Jul 2016 #109

I was for Obama and that was not the reason. From language, I thought Obama MIGHt, seabeyond Jul 2016 #112

Isn't this facinating? None of the hate holds up to real scrutiny. bettyellen Jul 2016 #177

As far as votes on Iraq. I hold them all in the same regard. NWCorona Jul 2016 #14

Sexism isn't bizarre, it is the norm. WhiteTara Jul 2016 #15

I think you're right on target n/t radical noodle Jul 2016 #19

Good post. Not only held to a higher standard, but with obstacle. This would be the unlevel playing seabeyond Jul 2016 #96

I agree. sarae Jul 2016 #166

I use to. But, five years being on the battlefield I better understand. Now I focus on saying seabeyond Jul 2016 #173

I still hold Kerry, Biden, Edwards accountable bigwillq Jul 2016 #16

But you did vote for Kerry, and for Biden. I did too. And I don't know about you, but Squinch Jul 2016 #80

Yes (nt) bigwillq Jul 2016 #90

Must have been a DU thing. I wasn't here then, and I never heard it once. Squinch Jul 2016 #108

You forget where the nation was on Iraq when Kerry ran. Vattel Jul 2016 #17

It only became unpopular when Hillary ran. nt WhiteTara Jul 2016 #26

No, it was unpopular enough by 2006 that Democrats retook John Poet Jul 2016 #55

Exactly right. It really tanked in 2005 and 2006. Vattel Jul 2016 #113

What? Warren DeMontague Jul 2016 #59

were you verbose i your displeasure with them because DLCWIdem Jul 2016 #131

Yes, I was. Warren DeMontague Jul 2016 #133

Maybe you were critical but DLCWIdem Jul 2016 #139

it was slowly starting to lose favor in 2004 but not enough to get Kerry elected DLCWIdem Jul 2016 #130

Cough cough woman cough yardwork Jul 2016 #18

He didn't? That was probably the main criticism made against him by Dean supporters during the Chathamization Jul 2016 #20

I disagree. His milittary abilities certainly were that big in the campaign, but seabeyond Jul 2016 #98

It's one reason I voted for Kucinich and not Kerry in 2004. thesquanderer Jul 2016 #22

because living in the middle of the george w. moron* nightmare... Javaman Jul 2016 #23

The internet. People were not as well informed in 2004. Scuba Jul 2016 #24

That was then, this is now. TheCowsCameHome Jul 2016 #25

if so, that is the most inane reason on earth. nt La Lioness Priyanka Jul 2016 #50

Um, no it isn't, actually. TheCowsCameHome Jul 2016 #120

We expected better from her. Demobrat Jul 2016 #27

Obama hammered her on it AntiBank Jul 2016 #28

Perhaps because your premise is questionable at best? bonemachine Jul 2016 #30

no, my question is quite valid. La Lioness Priyanka Jul 2016 #48

OK, fine... bonemachine Jul 2016 #52

+1000 Exilednight Jul 2016 #142

+1,000 Vattel Jul 2016 #206

You are viewing her vote of over a decade ago through the prism of this election. Squinch Jul 2016 #85

Excellent point, why do people fail to include the difference. Nt seabeyond Jul 2016 #99

Well when they throw around phrases like women card or race card..... bettyellen Jul 2016 #32

They also claim the rules are different when it comes to the Clintons. JoePhilly Jul 2016 #33

It is bizarre to say the least mcar Jul 2016 #38

The "warmonger" tag was NEVER applied to Kerry, Biden or Edwards. oasis Jul 2016 #39

Yup. La Lioness Priyanka Jul 2016 #45

Get real. think Jul 2016 #46

Thanks for posting that. It's unfortunate that there's little interest in the evidence. Chathamization Jul 2016 #107

But who won the primary. Dean or Kerry DLCWIdem Jul 2016 #132

And Clinton won the primary this year. IWR doesn't seem to have hurt her much this year. Chathamization Jul 2016 #134

no what I am saying is that the mood in the country for dems in ' 04 was not anit-war. DLCWIdem Jul 2016 #138

But the mood of the country is never been particularly anti-IWR. Most people don't seem to care. Chathamization Jul 2016 #150

I respectfully disagree DLCWIdem Jul 2016 #156

It didn't seem to be a big problem for McCain in '08. I doubt Trump will get much mileage out of it, Chathamization Jul 2016 #163

no it was a problem DLCWIdem Jul 2016 #180

How quickly people forget. I suppose it being 14 years ago might have something to do with that. arcane1 Jul 2016 #110

"So much good our anti-war votes did" Correct. We got Bush. seabeyond Jul 2016 #115

yes it was 14 years ago but she is facing it while the others are not. Both then and now DLCWIdem Jul 2016 #143

They faced it then and now. arcane1 Jul 2016 #190

Exactly! treestar Jul 2016 #72

Same here. DCBob Jul 2016 #42

Yes, most did. geardaddy Jul 2016 #58

John Kerry isn't a Clinton. George II Jul 2016 #44

Excellent post. Yes. Nt seabeyond Jul 2016 #100

Because they're men. grossproffit Jul 2016 #53

Because, in political time, that was an eternity ago nt broadcaster75201 Jul 2016 #54

So what? So was her vote an eternity ago, then. The question is why did those three men get a pass Squinch Jul 2016 #86

Hillary is female isn't she? rock Jul 2016 #56

In 2004 i bought the noise that we needed the "practical" candidate because 9-11 Warren DeMontague Jul 2016 #57

Both Kerry and HRC had unique reasons that people held them responsible - in addition to the fact karynnj Jul 2016 #60

Kerry threw those speeches away when he ran for president against Bush. arcane1 Jul 2016 #81

Kerry is NOT saying that Saddam had weapons of MD there - he is referring to SH's behavior karynnj Jul 2016 #88

Clinton was saying Saddam had WMDs and was a threat, and used it to justify bombing Iraq. arcane1 Jul 2016 #92

Here are Bill's own words: arcane1 Jul 2016 #95

Yes ... and before that bombing the inspectors were asked to leave karynnj Jul 2016 #104

Exactly. 2 presidents, 1 lie, and 0 WMDs n/t arcane1 Jul 2016 #111

GREAT post! Thank you for TRUTH. Those... YvonneCa Jul 2016 #94

I was shocked that Kerry voted for it democrattotheend Jul 2016 #103

+ 1000 n/t MBS Jul 2016 #144

The war wasn't as unpopular back when he ran. Lancero Jul 2016 #64

Or his wealth. JaneyVee Jul 2016 #65

I'm with you on that treestar Jul 2016 #66

The other three are men n/t cosmicone Jul 2016 #67

Yup. Sexism. Squinch Jul 2016 #70

It cost him my vote in 2004. arcane1 Jul 2016 #71

Wow. Yea. Bush. You told them. seabeyond Jul 2016 #102

some of it is lingering bitterness because she was associated with Bill's ericson00 Jul 2016 #74

The Iraq War was raging on. I don't think it was allowed to be part of the campaign narrative. nt Todays_Illusion Jul 2016 #75

Some of us have held the IWR vote against all who voted for it. SheilaT Jul 2016 #84

Penis. nt msanthrope Jul 2016 #91

It reminds me of how Al Gore was excoriated for his vote to confirm Scalia Ellen Forradalom Jul 2016 #97

I remember Kerry and Edwards being criticized a lot for it in 2004 democrattotheend Jul 2016 #101

An the great Irony is many of those folks Demsrule86 Jul 2016 #105

Susan Sarandon didn't make three hundred thousand Florida Democrats vote for Dubya. Scootaloo Jul 2016 #136

First of all Demsrule86 Jul 2016 #178

"Gore = Bush" No difference at all. Kinda like tweedle dee and tweedle dum. Nt seabeyond Jul 2016 #182

"Why" is right. As in "Y chromosome." nt BobbyDrake Jul 2016 #114

Politics are about identity and tribalism. ZombieHorde Jul 2016 #121

In 2003/04 the Iraq war was not as incredibly unpopular as it is now Ash_F Jul 2016 #122

Because Kerry was running against Bush, CanadaexPat Jul 2016 #123

Gee, Kerry/Edwards, both IWR yes voters, failed to win the election. That's wrath. Bluenorthwest Jul 2016 #124

Kerry lost because while liberals or progressives were anti war and unafraid of terrorism DLCWIdem Jul 2016 #151

so true DLCWIdem Jul 2016 #125

yes from the posts above I would have had to "prove" if I had posted a thread like this DLCWIdem Jul 2016 #145

Lots of reasons. morningfog Jul 2016 #127

yes the Iraq war had nothing to do with 9/11 attacks DLCWIdem Jul 2016 #174

They all knew it at the time. morningfog Jul 2016 #175

I was as angry with Kerry as I am with Hillary over the IWR vote Thirties Child Jul 2016 #129

Because he was running against its primary architect. Scootaloo Jul 2016 #135

Democrats are also susceptible to propaganda like the general population The Second Stone Jul 2016 #137

Since Oct 2002, in Dem primaries I have refused to support ANYONE who voted for the IWR Martin Eden Jul 2016 #146

Oh, we know why, Pri obamanut2012 Jul 2016 #147

I think people who were for Dean were for Dean because Dean had not voted for the war and merrily Jul 2016 #152

Don't blame anyone but yourself for failing to understand. Exilednight Jul 2016 #153

Over time average voters grew to understand just how bad voting for IWR was. aikoaiko Jul 2016 #157

women, she, her, female get it now? stonecutter357 Jul 2016 #158

Because he never stopped criticizing Bush for how he used IWR Bad Thoughts Jul 2016 #160

" " " " n/t MBS Jul 2016 #168

First of all, he faced plenty of wrath over his vote. MBS Jul 2016 #161

"You may dismiss a vote based on presidential aspirations as one more mark against politicians." Martin Eden Jul 2016 #172

My sentiments exactly! Thanks for posting! nt LAS14 Jul 2016 #165

Haters need to find a reason to hate liberal N proud Jul 2016 #179

They should all wear the same cones of shame... Orsino Jul 2016 #181

And to add, Kerry was our nominee in 2004 Proud Liberal Dem Jul 2016 #186

It is really bizarre - and its called politics CajunBlazer Jul 2016 #191

They are men. nt LexVegas Jul 2016 #192

Yeah, he did. It was a huge deal in 2004. Cal Carpenter Jul 2016 #193

Penis helped. Maru Kitteh Jul 2016 #194

Just go the old DU site and check out why Dean was the frontrunner andym Jul 2016 #195

Yes, I wondered that as well. And how George Stephanopolous ehrnst Jul 2016 #196

Bias requires inconsistent and discordant responses to like things. LanternWaste Jul 2016 #197

Hillary is... Mike Nelson Jul 2016 #201

This time you can say "thanks, Obama" ... surrealAmerican Jul 2016 #202

The right wingnuts haven't been out to get Kerry for several decades like they did the Clinton. Lil Missy Jul 2016 #203

Yup La Lioness Priyanka Jul 2016 #215

Wrong, they have hated him since 1971 karynnj Jul 2016 #217

No, they haven't hounded him repeatedly all those years like they have Hillary and Bill. n/t Lil Missy Jul 2016 #221

Actually they have. It killed his first run for Congress in 1972 karynnj Jul 2016 #223

Plus, mylye2222 Jul 2016 #234

Kerry has bona fides with those in the peace movement so his vote was an error in the context of a Vote2016 Jul 2016 #207

Why are you only just now bringing this up? If it's because you're pissed off that Hill is the... ChisolmTrailDem Jul 2016 #208

lol. You really don't know what you're talking about. La Lioness Priyanka Jul 2016 #210

And you really didn't need to make the OP. ChisolmTrailDem Jul 2016 #211

Yes, I did. Clearly many people had things to say about it. La Lioness Priyanka Jul 2016 #212

You bringing up Kerry's vote for IWR now is what's silly. ChisolmTrailDem Jul 2016 #213

lol. La Lioness Priyanka Jul 2016 #214

Lol. nt ChisolmTrailDem Jul 2016 #216

I vehemently opposed Kerry and supported Dean in the Primary because of the Iraq vote. LostOne4Ever Jul 2016 #218

Do you honestly believe he or Biden received as much flak and name calling La Lioness Priyanka Jul 2016 #219

I don't think that the flak that Hillary has gotten from some of the left LostOne4Ever Jul 2016 #220