2016 Postmortem

Cary

(11,746 posts)

215. Unlike Republicans, the Democratic establishment is about as close to our base as it can be

Tue Aug 9, 2016, 09:39 AM

Aug 2016

The "persuading" that has been done is the sowing of discord and discontent by "conservatives" who really have nothing else to offer. The Hillary hatred is way, way over blown. And I don't buy into this Ron Paul "left-right paradigm" schtick. "Conservatism" has nothing to offer liberals like myself. And yes I am 100% liberal, regardless. The ugly side of "conservatism" which is the racial anxiety currently embodied by Trump has no place in my cosmology. "Conservatism" is a dangerous ideology and I should not have to convince anyone of that.

Of course for identifying it as such, some people accuse me of "fear mongering." I'm sorry but I have no use for people who cannot recognize "conservatism" as the enemy, and a very dangerous one at that.

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I don't like Jill Stein or support the Green "spoiler strategy" but let's be honest about it. [View all] Armstead Aug 2016 OP

Stick with the Bernie Sanders style of progressive thought OKNancy Aug 2016 #1

I'm a Bernie guy all the way -- Including his pragmatic realism Armstead Aug 2016 #6

One Thing Is For Sure...She's No Bernie Me. Aug 2016 #29

NO bravenak Aug 2016 #2

Agreed. metroins Aug 2016 #5

The last candidate they had was cray too bravenak Aug 2016 #7

Yup ismnotwasm Aug 2016 #14

Seriously bravenak Aug 2016 #17

Right? ismnotwasm Aug 2016 #28

Honestly. I think they just run to get attention at this point bravenak Aug 2016 #31

Agreed Gothmog Aug 2016 #93

^^^ THIS RIGHT HERE ^^^. I am so sick of Green shit being pushed on this site. Greens, Tarheel_Dem Aug 2016 #126

I agree! skylucy Aug 2016 #141

+1 uponit7771 Aug 2016 #132

Because of Nader and the Green party, we got W, Citizens United and the gutting of the VRA Gothmog Aug 2016 #3

Exactly, well said. Spazito Aug 2016 #8

No matter how many times that meme is repeated it still will not be true. n/t xocet Aug 2016 #69

+1 nt riderinthestorm Aug 2016 #87

Nader was key in giving Bush the 2000 victory Gothmog Aug 2016 #95

... intersectionality Aug 2016 #116

Nader is directly responsible for the loss of Section 5 of the VRA Gothmog Aug 2016 #119

This is a reactive sentiment and not a proactive sentiment intersectionality Aug 2016 #125

Nader& Greens gave us Bush...top of my lungs Demsrule86 Aug 2016 #129

"a vote for Jill Stein is a vote for Donald Trump" sherlocksistah Aug 2016 #190

george bush won Florida by 537 votes. Nader got more than 97,000 votes, the majority of which.... George II Aug 2016 #183

More than 97,000 registered Democrats in Florida voted for Bush* and not Gore TransitJohn Aug 2016 #221

That doesn't make sense - we're talking about voters in Florida that voted for NADER! George II Aug 2016 #229

It makes sense, think about it. TransitJohn Aug 2016 #232

That's a bit of an stretch TexasBushwhacker Aug 2016 #70

Your analysis is totally wrong and sad. Gothmog Aug 2016 #82

BTW, I still remember when Rove financed Nader Gothmog Aug 2016 #83

Not when while you were president and your home state Demsrule86 Aug 2016 #131

Yawn. progressoid Aug 2016 #97

Lol, no way. Even Gore doesn't blame Nader for that debacle Arazi Aug 2016 #180

Gore made mistakes but that does not excuse Nader Gothmog Aug 2016 #235

+1000! DemonGoddess Aug 2016 #233

They are not progressive, they are regressive. JaneyVee Aug 2016 #4

+1,000,000 Democrats Ascendant Aug 2016 #102

^^^This!!! DemonGoddess Aug 2016 #234

Greens should not be demonized, but Stein, absolutely. She equates Hillary and Trump as the same still_one Aug 2016 #9

She's a political chicken hawk sarge43 Aug 2016 #67

Can you explain to me exactly what the Greens stand for...not the paper platform but what they glennward Aug 2016 #75

I am not a green party member, I am a Democrat. I know nothing of what you are referring still_one Aug 2016 #86

I like your answer Armstead Aug 2016 #108

Wednesday November 9th JustAnotherGen Aug 2016 #10

A party is shaped during elections Armstead Aug 2016 #111

Ahh - Jill Stein has made clear JustAnotherGen Aug 2016 #123

Exactly right in your conclusion. maddiemom Aug 2016 #208

Everyone I know who fits your description *is* rjsquirrel Aug 2016 #11

Yes, let's be honest. Jill Stein and her supporters are either right-wingers or total idiots. DanTex Aug 2016 #12

I believe that you are correct. Wilms Aug 2016 #13

It shouldn't be courageous Armstead Aug 2016 #57

I'm not sure they heard you zipplewrath Aug 2016 #15

Wrong. This has noting to do with the primary which is over. Demsrule86 Aug 2016 #35

"The enemy" zipplewrath Aug 2016 #37

The Greens and Jill Stein are the enemy Demsrule86 Aug 2016 #47

Not the people the OP was discussing zipplewrath Aug 2016 #58

"The enemy"-That is a very Palinesque thing to say. What is next "real Americans" versus fakes? n/t xocet Aug 2016 #73

That term always irks me also. Thank you. uppityperson Aug 2016 #120

No enemy is correct or if your prefer oponent. Demsrule86 Aug 2016 #135

Opponent is a good term to use. And I agree with the body of your message. uppityperson Aug 2016 #136

Yeah right...that is an insult isn't it? Demsrule86 Aug 2016 #134

I don't think a lot of people actually read PatSeg Aug 2016 #43

The rote responses are annoying. I wish folks would read what was posted. nt riderinthestorm Aug 2016 #89

It is like robots are commenting PatSeg Aug 2016 #105

Jill Stein IS a RWNJ! stonecutter357 Aug 2016 #16

Oh, just fucking NO. She's running against Hillary. She's helping Trump. Just fucking no. Squinch Aug 2016 #18

Bingo. SusanCalvin Aug 2016 #22

1000+ Demsrule86 Aug 2016 #33

+1 uponit7771 Aug 2016 #133

"They can all drop dead." -- Just WOW. cprise Aug 2016 #189

Do you guess that? What makes you guess that? Because nothing in my post would lead Squinch Aug 2016 #193

Hysteria and evasion are not a good mix. eom cprise Aug 2016 #194

Pulling random stuff out of one's ass and pointing it at others is not a good practice. Squinch Aug 2016 #195

What's random? cprise Aug 2016 #197

Why no, I'm not. And is the opposition to Stein a problem for you? Squinch Aug 2016 #198

Well said. SunSeeker Aug 2016 #218

Greens and Dems have lots in common. Green Party members have been welcome @ DU emulatorloo Aug 2016 #19

That is not true. Demsrule86 Aug 2016 #30

Well then those guys wouldn't be welcome at DU emulatorloo Aug 2016 #34

You can be a member of the green party Demsrule86 Aug 2016 #48

We agree emulatorloo Aug 2016 #49

She is not progressive but wacko Demsrule86 Aug 2016 #32

Everything you said PatSeg Aug 2016 #46

She's an awful representative of the Greens and progressiveness Armstead Aug 2016 #60

They have been welcome in the context of supporting Democrats and the nominee not to Demsrule86 Aug 2016 #137

We do not have much in common with the Greens Demsrule86 Aug 2016 #138

How can you take them seriously when we only hear about them every 4 year . . . brush Aug 2016 #20

Exactly- but building from the ground up is not something they can be bothered doing.... bettyellen Aug 2016 #40

Some can't be bothered with a quick check via google. Wilms Aug 2016 #65

After how many years they have zero influence in the house or senate? bettyellen Aug 2016 #85

North Korea doesn't like to put up with that kind of stuff either. Wilms Aug 2016 #96

Why not bring up Hitler too? We had many many candidates- they I have been winnowed down to two.... bettyellen Aug 2016 #107

People who understand our democracy disagree. Wilms Aug 2016 #109

Maybe you have forgotten that many of us could not vote in the USA and so appreciate the right to... bettyellen Aug 2016 #117

It's foremost on my mind. Wilms Aug 2016 #124

I wish more people cared about voting, but it's an uphill battle... bettyellen Aug 2016 #128

Where do they get their information? Wilms Aug 2016 #150

135 whole people. Why that's somehow like the 3 out of 30,000 Clinton emails that had . . . brush Aug 2016 #162

To me, what's getting blown up big is the reaction to Stein. Wilms Aug 2016 #166

You've got those numbers wrong. Johnson is, and has been polling twice what Stein is. brush Aug 2016 #168

I flipped the two numbers I saw in an RCP poll. Wilms Aug 2016 #170

Yes, I considered she won't get any Trump votes, that's the point. brush Aug 2016 #171

I really don't think she'll take many votes from Clinton. Wilms Aug 2016 #174

Your arguments are getting weaker by the post. brush Aug 2016 #181

Just your opinion. Wilms Aug 2016 #182

Just why are you pushing Stein on a Democratic site? brush Aug 2016 #185

Nice try. Wilms Aug 2016 #199

Just seems that way? brush Aug 2016 #200

Many people who have progressive views are similar to "moderate" voters Armstead Aug 2016 #78

I blame all the Dems who cannot be bothered- they have handed the house and senate to the GOP bettyellen Aug 2016 #88

Last time I looked the threat to Clinton is from Trump. Warren Stupidity Aug 2016 #21

You believe Stein is a "Bernie Surrogate"? She's nothing like Bernie. emulatorloo Aug 2016 #24

Ads running in swing states by Jill make her the enemy Demsrule86 Aug 2016 #25

Bernie supports Hillary metroins Aug 2016 #26

Why the defense of Jll Stein? Demsrule86 Aug 2016 #23

Because there's a tone here that is disturbingly restrictive and.... Armstead Aug 2016 #54

Oh good god! Just stop it! The primaries are OVER! NurseJackie Aug 2016 #71

Thanks for illustrating my point Armstead Aug 2016 #74

You didn't have a point. Just an agenda. NurseJackie Aug 2016 #77

It's an "I support Hillary, but I still think we can do better in the long run" attitude Armstead Aug 2016 #80

In other words: "What? Who...me?" :-P NurseJackie Aug 2016 #118

Sorry that is not supporting the nominee but a backhanded attack. nt Demsrule86 Aug 2016 #140

You're correct! In my opinion, it's all very intentional... and predictable, too. NurseJackie Aug 2016 #145

You confuse being anti-Green Party/Stein with being anti-progressive..imo. PragmaticLiberal Aug 2016 #106

Oh, he's not confused at all. It's all intentional, I assure you. NurseJackie Aug 2016 #130

Yeah, I know. PragmaticLiberal Aug 2016 #153

She actually would be way worse than Duke Demsrule86 Aug 2016 #139

Jill Stein and the Greens are our competition, not our friends. hrmjustin Aug 2016 #27

Personally, I've no need... LenaBaby61 Aug 2016 #36

I tell you what when I hear "green party" people say..."we need to teach america a lesson"...that beachbum bob Aug 2016 #38

Great post. I completely agree Demsrule86 Aug 2016 #41

It's this punitive behavior that attracted those who just want to burn it down.... bettyellen Aug 2016 #42

You're right...We do0 need people to set their egos aside Armstead Aug 2016 #56

As I constantly point out, it is they who failed to learn the lesson. sofa king Aug 2016 #64

you are so very right...I place the extreme left as no better beachbum bob Aug 2016 #143

Thanks for intellectually honest and well-penned post, Armstead. George Eliot Aug 2016 #39

This trashing of people is recent. Maybe the anonymity of the internet? George Eliot Aug 2016 #99

I know it hard to realize some friends have dumb ideas- punitive "burn it down" ideas that hurt the bettyellen Aug 2016 #44

Why Do I Dislike Stein? Orcrist Aug 2016 #45

I feel exactly the same way Demsrule86 Aug 2016 #50

She makes her living running for office, getting matching funds brush Aug 2016 #160

"Agent of a foreign power"? demwing Aug 2016 #206

honestly. Hiraeth Aug 2016 #51

Personally, I prefer to support Democrats. nt fleabiscuit Aug 2016 #52

The Greens gave us Bush, 2 wars, 9/11, the crash in 08 Gman Aug 2016 #53

That was the Supreme Court. Never blame voters for practicing democracy. George Eliot Aug 2016 #104

I would prefer we did not have Bush Gman Aug 2016 #196

No, they are not Democrats. They are the competition and should be treated as such. n/t Lil Missy Aug 2016 #55

Competition yes. Demons from hell....no. Armstead Aug 2016 #62

Stein is a Putin tool, not to mention an anti vax, anti wifi nutter workinclasszero Aug 2016 #59

Huh? fleabiscuit Aug 2016 #61

Jill Stein is trying to help Trump beat Hillary. And she's gone to Russia to expound on her ideas pnwmom Aug 2016 #63

------------------------------------- Armstead Aug 2016 #66

It's not politically wise to accept such invitations from groups that might be controversial if.... Armstead Aug 2016 #101

Whether they or their policies are taken seriously is really up to them. BzaDem Aug 2016 #68

"green voters" at5re individuals, just like Democrats are Armstead Aug 2016 #72

You are assuming that making such reforms possible is actually going to change voting behavior. BzaDem Aug 2016 #81

The GOP doesn't think that way, and they eitehr get what they want or... Armstead Aug 2016 #156

Marlarky Orcrist Aug 2016 #84

such good points. Demsrule86 Aug 2016 #142

Can you explain this... liberal N proud Aug 2016 #76

Not that they had any credibility to begin with, but AgadorSparticus Aug 2016 #79

The Green party needs to get its shit together. apnu Aug 2016 #90

But the Green Party are spoilers. bananakabob Aug 2016 #91

When the Greens start (a) criticizing the Republicans at least as much as they criticize Democrats geek tragedy Aug 2016 #92

When they say they'll vote for tRump... SHRED Aug 2016 #94

I agree with that. It IS crazy to vote for Trump. Armstead Aug 2016 #103

Yeah I thought about that after I posted SHRED Aug 2016 #164

Why do I only hear about Stein on DU??? Democrats Ascendant Aug 2016 #98

Ugh all she does is try to pander LostinRed Aug 2016 #100

Good try Armstead but I don't think the Greens can be discussed rationally here. riderinthestorm Aug 2016 #110

I's rather not see them discussed at all....at least during this election Armstead Aug 2016 #113

Yes for many it's clearly an attack on progressives under cover of attacking Greens. nt riderinthestorm Aug 2016 #115

The primary is over this is an untrue post at best and divisive Demsrule86 Aug 2016 #146

There are plenty of progressives who aren't in love with Stein emulatorloo Aug 2016 #148

Hillary supporters are progressive. Demsrule86 Aug 2016 #154

100% true. There's plenty of greens who don't love Stein either Arazi Aug 2016 #157

My "diagnosis" of DU today. Not healed from Primary Wars 2016. emulatorloo Aug 2016 #165

It's obvious JPR's getting trolled. Arazi Aug 2016 #179

def sick of hearing about it here emulatorloo Aug 2016 #184

DU's obsessed with them Arazi Aug 2016 #187

And vice versa lol emulatorloo Aug 2016 #201

You articulated well...I hope your Pollyanna Optimist view is correct Armstead Aug 2016 #202

I have noticed that myself. nt Gore1FL Aug 2016 #158

Post removed Post removed Aug 2016 #112

Maybe you should find a different website to pass your time. This one is for Democrats. n/t Lil Missy Aug 2016 #114

Obviously, some folks are just TOO obvious in their intentions. NurseJackie Aug 2016 #121

This is a reasonable attitude and at least partly true. Orsino Aug 2016 #122

They won't help and never do...and if they won't support our nominee Demsrule86 Aug 2016 #147

What about down-ballot candidates? Gore1FL Aug 2016 #159

The excuse to unleash the Hillary hater Greens on DU Demsrule86 Aug 2016 #226

That isn't what I am suggesting Gore1FL Aug 2016 #231

I don't know how you concluded that. Orsino Aug 2016 #220

I am not a we with Greens. And I don't care what they do in general Demsrule86 Aug 2016 #227

That has nothing to do, though, with the question... Orsino Aug 2016 #228

This message was self-deleted by its author Turn CO Blue Aug 2016 #127

Clinton campaign is 100% focused on Trump. emulatorloo Aug 2016 #144

demonize??? give me a break...I don't need extremist wishing to teach america a lesson....demonize? beachbum bob Aug 2016 #149

I got news for ya.... Armstead Aug 2016 #151

So what the hell is the reason for this OP then? brush Aug 2016 #161

500+ nader voters in Florida did... beachbum bob Aug 2016 #163

If it's that close this year...Democrats have bigger things to worry about than the Greens Armstead Aug 2016 #205

Fuck the Greens, vote Democratic and keep that lunatic out of the White House, their enablers!!! FreeStateDemocrat Aug 2016 #152

Keep their enablers out of the white house Capt. Obvious Aug 2016 #222

Your typical male lancer78 Aug 2016 #155

FUCK EVERY GREEN OUT THERE!!!! MohRokTah Aug 2016 #167

BTW, I thought you "lost interest in the General Election"? MohRokTah Aug 2016 #169

Good catch bravenak Aug 2016 #175

Ha!! :-D NurseJackie Aug 2016 #176

Jesus H. Christ. n/t VOX Aug 2016 #192

I have to a large extent Armstead Aug 2016 #204

"Yes I've posted on JPR occasionally." MohRokTah Aug 2016 #207

And one of my my best friend in the world is a right-wing Republican Christian fundamentalist. Armstead Aug 2016 #209

"BIG FUCKING DEAL" MohRokTah Aug 2016 #210

Rigid people bore me Armstead Aug 2016 #211

And yet,... MohRokTah Aug 2016 #212

I see the issue the same way you do. I'd rather have them in the tent pissing out than outside the Attorney in Texas Aug 2016 #172

Good points...I think people should take a 3D look at it Armstead Aug 2016 #203

Nope. I've almost never talked to a Green Party backer who was halfway rational. Zynx Aug 2016 #173

"(they also think there is no chance Trump is going to win either)." KMOD Aug 2016 #177

How does rejection of people who vow never to vote Democratic "narrow" the spectrum? Cary Aug 2016 #178

One might ask WHY people are so estranged from a party.... Armstead Aug 2016 #214

Unlike Republicans, the Democratic establishment is about as close to our base as it can be Cary Aug 2016 #215

That's too much of a generaliation Armstead Aug 2016 #217

There is no baby in the bathwater, just a hypocritical turd. D23MIURG23 Aug 2016 #186

Privatize Everything = Purism cprise Aug 2016 #188

Sorry, but NO. It comes down to Trump & the Supreme Court... VOX Aug 2016 #191

Fuck Stein, Fuck Nadar, Fuck Narcissists. we can do it Aug 2016 #213

Jill Stein is trying to pull a Nader by running virulently anti-Clinton ads in SWING STATES. SunSeeker Aug 2016 #216

The real opposition is anyone running hate ads and pushing dangerous propaganda. Fuck Stein. n/t JTFrog Aug 2016 #219

I'm sorry, but I can't agree to that nonsense. kcr Aug 2016 #223

I am sick and tired of the Stein apologists CajunBlazer Aug 2016 #224

This message was self-deleted by its author Kashkakat v.2.0 Aug 2016 #225

Whether people "agree" is irrelevant BainsBane Aug 2016 #230