2016 Postmortem

Ken Burch

(50,254 posts)

103. There are long lines because they want to vote

Sat Oct 22, 2016, 01:42 AM

Oct 2016

and that's what you HAVE to do to vote in those states.

The existence of those those lines doesn't vindicate the status quo, anymore than the existence of large-scale protests against JIm in the Forties, Fifties, and Sixties somehow prove that the violence used to crush those protests was morally defensible.

You haven't demonstrated why it wouldn't work in a large state.

In large states drop box options exist, and as has been pointed out, additional ballots can be downloaded if you make a mistake on your ballot.

You don't have to have voting machines to be able to correct mistakes.

And have you not seen the dozens of threads on this site in which the horrible problems with electronic voting were pointed out?

You have the right to your opinion, but it is sincerely puzzling that you are going to such great lengths to defend a basically unsound and undemocratic voting system.

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Oregon's Voting method should be done nationwide! [View all] Boxerfan Oct 2016 OP

No thanks. LisaL Oct 2016 #1

Why not? It's massively easier. Ken Burch Oct 2016 #10

I already explained my numerous reasons. LisaL Oct 2016 #24

In Oregon, you can check that the ballot did indeed arrive duffyduff Oct 2016 #29

I already explained, I am not worried about fraud. LisaL Oct 2016 #34

I have first hand experience with a mis-matched signature in Oregon davepdx Oct 2016 #58

Having to go to the board of elections doesn't make voting by mail so very convenient. LisaL Oct 2016 #66

"took the option of going" pat_k Oct 2016 #88

Exactly duffyduff Oct 2016 #179

So you support disenfranchising homeless people? They don't get mail. NoGoodNamesLeft Oct 2016 #185

Addressed in other replies to you. pat_k Oct 2016 #211

What part of not all homeless people access services do you not understand? NoGoodNamesLeft Oct 2016 #214

Outreach goes to them. pat_k Oct 2016 #217

P.S. Are you aware that secure dropbox pat_k Oct 2016 #227

I don't want to vote by mail and that is my right NoGoodNamesLeft Oct 2016 #184

Outreach efforts pat_k Oct 2016 #212

In WA if you make an error, can download a replacement. pat_k Oct 2016 #41

Do you think everybody has a printer? LisaL Oct 2016 #42

Those who don't can pick one up or have one mailed. pat_k Oct 2016 #46

If you don't, they have one at the library. Ken Burch Oct 2016 #152

Important point. pat_k Oct 2016 #156

Homeless people don't have printers, computers or internet...or money to pay to do it NoGoodNamesLeft Oct 2016 #186

Libraries (as Ken Burch pointed out) and other provisions for homeless. pat_k Oct 2016 #199

As someone who has worked with homeless people I can say with confidence that NoGoodNamesLeft Oct 2016 #206

Did you visit the site? pat_k Oct 2016 #213

Yes, and the outreach goes to where homeless people get services, which does NOTHING NoGoodNamesLeft Oct 2016 #222

I still await answer to 217/220 pat_k Oct 2016 #225

You don't have to pay for stamps. WHEN CRABS ROAR Oct 2016 #107

I disagree Lisal. saidsimplesimon Oct 2016 #180

So there are no homeless people in the Western US? Since when? NoGoodNamesLeft Oct 2016 #187

Please stand down saidsimplesimon Oct 2016 #191

I could have sworn that it said you didn't understand how people did not have internet access NoGoodNamesLeft Oct 2016 #194

Sometimes I fail to communicate. saidsimplesimon Oct 2016 #198

Outreach efforts assume no internet pat_k Oct 2016 #215

Outreach efforts assume no internet pat_k Oct 2016 #216

So why not have both Travis_0004 Oct 2016 #44

And that's fine. LisaL Oct 2016 #45

Earlier replies to you... pat_k Oct 2016 #47

Aren't we talking about Oregon? LisaL Oct 2016 #49

My take: It's a discussion of Vote by Mail with OR as an example. pat_k Oct 2016 #51

The fact that you see long lines in states where vote by mail is allowed should tell you something. LisaL Oct 2016 #52

What states are you referring to? pat_k Oct 2016 #59

What is the difference between no excuse absentee ballot and voting by mail? LisaL Oct 2016 #62

In no excuse absentee you have the burden... pat_k Oct 2016 #90

You have to fill out a short form in order to request an absentee ballot. LisaL Oct 2016 #91

People procrastinate. It's better than having no mail in option... pat_k Oct 2016 #120

You eliminated some issues but introduced all kind of others. LisaL Oct 2016 #143

Like what? pat_k Oct 2016 #171

We typically get 80%+ turnout Qutzupalotl Oct 2016 #64

What about homeless people? They don't get to vote if it's only mail in. NoGoodNamesLeft Oct 2016 #188

See the multiple previous posts on subject. pat_k Oct 2016 #219

Yes they can. They can register using a county clerk's office as their address Qutzupalotl Oct 2016 #243

There are long lines because they want to vote Ken Burch Oct 2016 #103

The lines are only a problem in states with mixed systems pat_k Oct 2016 #123

It's a formula of people having a choice how they want to vote. LisaL Oct 2016 #136

What choice is missing? pat_k Oct 2016 #157

You can think whatever you want. LisaL Oct 2016 #163

Please tell me again. As far as I can tell... pat_k Oct 2016 #173

Mixed systems can be problematic. pat_k Oct 2016 #125

We finally got more than two boxes here in Seattle! scscholar Oct 2016 #224

I don't blame you. Laffy Kat Oct 2016 #54

Unfortunately, in states where voting primarily takes place... pat_k Oct 2016 #65

You have all the same problems with voting by mail that you have with regular voting. LisaL Oct 2016 #106

Ballots are not scanned by machine in OR or WA pat_k Oct 2016 #126

That's absolutely false. Ballot are scanned on a machine. LisaL Oct 2016 #141

In Oregon the ballots are counted by machine. davepdx Oct 2016 #167

Thanks for correction. pat_k Oct 2016 #174

and there's the "paper trail" that can be accessed sherlocksistah Oct 2016 #175

All very good points... davepdx Oct 2016 #226

You're right, of course. Laffy Kat Oct 2016 #108

Me too. pat_k Oct 2016 #127

In Oregon there is still the GOTV effort so you may want to check with your state party office. davepdx Oct 2016 #144

Thanks! I need to look into how it works here. pat_k Oct 2016 #153

Unless you live in a precinct that uses electronic machines to vote, there is no difference. fleabiscuit Oct 2016 #104

And there's rigorous verification through ERIC pat_k Oct 2016 #2

Verification of what? LisaL Oct 2016 #4

Visit the ERIC site for explanation pat_k Oct 2016 #6

I am not worried about "voter fraud." LisaL Oct 2016 #7

In WA you can track your ballot online pat_k Oct 2016 #9

I could have done this here but I don't want to. LisaL Oct 2016 #14

In WA also have drop-boxes and accessible voting centers, pat_k Oct 2016 #25

None of that sounds enticing to me. LisaL Oct 2016 #31

You are defending a system that has no advantages. Ken Burch Oct 2016 #48

Is your opinion the only one that counts? LisaL Oct 2016 #50

Check out verifiedvoting.org pat_k Oct 2016 #53

There are lines in states like NC because people want to vote. Ken Burch Oct 2016 #94

How are mail in ballots counted? LisaL Oct 2016 #96

They hand-count ballots in general elections in the UK Ken Burch Oct 2016 #99

In WA it takes awhile pat_k Oct 2016 #101

But so what? Ken Burch Oct 2016 #109

Exactly! pat_k Oct 2016 #111

I guess you don't remember hanging chads. LisaL Oct 2016 #113

Non issue with ballots used in WA and others. pat_k Oct 2016 #121

P.S. You wanna talk FL 2000 pat_k Oct 2016 #122

lol Forever tazkcmo Oct 2016 #189

The doubters have NO argument. duffyduff Oct 2016 #196

Ditto in Oregon duffyduff Oct 2016 #35

You receive your ballot in the mail and drop it off at drop boxes at your leisure. CentralMass Oct 2016 #13

I prefer to go to voting place and vote at my leisure. LisaL Oct 2016 #17

Ok, well in Massachusetts where I lived for 5 decades I voted CentralMass Oct 2016 #37

Multiple people check it here in Oregon duffyduff Oct 2016 #33

So your signature never changes? LisaL Oct 2016 #36

Objection already addressed. pat_k Oct 2016 #55

Most. Not in FL in 2012. Thousands of ballots were rejected. LisaL Oct 2016 #57

Florida is not a "Vote by Mail" state. pat_k Oct 2016 #69

So if they all started voting by mail it would somehow be better? LisaL Oct 2016 #78

??? pat_k Oct 2016 #95

No reason? Jeez. LisaL Oct 2016 #97

What capabilities do Florida voters lack relative to pat_k Oct 2016 #100

There is too much paranoia being spewed by some on this thread duffyduff Oct 2016 #178

Agree - we've got vote by mail in WA state as well. Salviati Oct 2016 #3

Yea, great, if you mail don't get lost. LisaL Oct 2016 #5

In WA you can track your ballot online pat_k Oct 2016 #8

And what good does that do? LisaL Oct 2016 #11

If it doesn't show up, you can go to the elections office and get a replacement ballot. Ken Burch Oct 2016 #16

This message was self-deleted by its author LisaL Oct 2016 #18

Having to go to the elections office to get a replacement ballot LisaL Oct 2016 #21

Can download a replacement ballot pat_k Oct 2016 #27

They lose whole ballot boxes in some states. Ken Burch Oct 2016 #12

Who still has ballots? LisaL Oct 2016 #15

They use ballots in a lot of states. Ken Burch Oct 2016 #19

And there are plenty of people who don't want to vote by mail. LisaL Oct 2016 #22

Don't have to. Answered above. pat_k Oct 2016 #30

I am a software quality assurance engineer and have been one for 20+ years boomer55 Oct 2016 #23

How do you know your mail in vote is counted? LisaL Oct 2016 #26

Answered above pat_k Oct 2016 #28

There have been lots of issues with the signatures supposedly "not matching." LisaL Oct 2016 #40

If that is the case then Florida's mail voting processes are severely lacking davepdx Oct 2016 #61

We can't all live in Oregon, can we? LisaL Oct 2016 #63

Florida is not a vote by mail state. pat_k Oct 2016 #76

I am pretty sure if they switched to voting by mail only it would be even more problematic. LisaL Oct 2016 #81

Answered above. pat_k Oct 2016 #98

I recognize that it isn't a vote by mail state davepdx Oct 2016 #110

It's a dilemma. pat_k Oct 2016 #116

All excellent points davepdx Oct 2016 #124

I miss "election day" too. pat_k Oct 2016 #128

As noted in another reply, FL is not a "Vote by Mail" state. pat_k Oct 2016 #73

So you think that if a state by FL became a "Vote by Mail only" state, all its issues would LisaL Oct 2016 #74

Certainly. So long as they employed the same safeguards... pat_k Oct 2016 #82

And who do you think is going to ensure that? Their republican governor? LisaL Oct 2016 #84

Mustering the political will to ensure the... pat_k Oct 2016 #86

+1 davepdx Oct 2016 #114

Lots of states use paper ballots at the PoindexterOglethorpe Oct 2016 #169

Yes. At location where people physically go in and vote. CentralMass Oct 2016 #20

In CO I get an email & text for ballot received and when counted. if there is an issue Turn CO Blue Oct 2016 #43

I'm in Ga. and I'm 100% in favor of votre by mail. I really don't like these napi21 Oct 2016 #32

verifiedvoting.org -- worthy of support pat_k Oct 2016 #39

We vote by mail here in Colorado too since 2014. Turn CO Blue Oct 2016 #38

I lived in Oregon all my life and now live in Washington. FightingIrish Oct 2016 #56

unless its "lost" in the mail or deliberately re-routed or tossed out nt msongs Oct 2016 #60

Which would be a felony. Qutzupalotl Oct 2016 #67

And since you can track your ballot... pat_k Oct 2016 #72

Yep. duffyduff Oct 2016 #201

Just Voted in California by mail senegal1 Oct 2016 #68

Well you seem to have an enormous number if issues on the ballot. LisaL Oct 2016 #70

Yes most I have seen in my life senegal1 Oct 2016 #75

It won't take nowhere near as long here. LisaL Oct 2016 #79

I like going to the polling place democrattotheend Oct 2016 #71

Yup! Our Oregon ballots are ready to be mailed out tomorrow! We love Akamai Oct 2016 #77

In California you can vote by mail or in person. I have a permanent vote by mail. still_one Oct 2016 #80

Considering how often my mail gets misdirected and lost, I just don't trust it. Neema Oct 2016 #83

And you can do just that... pat_k Oct 2016 #85

Voting centers for voters with disabilities. LisaL Oct 2016 #87

They can take it to a drop box location pat_k Oct 2016 #118

White people problems?! Missn-Hitch Oct 2016 #89

I can't support voting by male Retired George Oct 2016 #92

Love it! pat_k Oct 2016 #119

I dropped my ballot off today!! OregonLiburl Oct 2016 #93

Hell yes. Just mailed in our ballots in Montana. LOVE it. Maru Kitteh Oct 2016 #102

I mailed my ballot today here in AZ True_Blue Oct 2016 #105

Here in CA we have both mail and in person. I only vote by mail SunSeeker Oct 2016 #112

Waaaah shadowmayor Oct 2016 #115

My sister lives in Oregon and loves the way they vote. riversedge Oct 2016 #117

I HATE vote by mail (Washington) LisaM Oct 2016 #129

I was all in for voting by mail until iwillalwayswonderwhy Oct 2016 #130

Yes. Mme. Defarge Oct 2016 #132

That's another thing. LisaL Oct 2016 #133

See #158 pat_k Oct 2016 #159

Those types would request absentee ballots anyway. Haters gotta hate. nt fleabiscuit Oct 2016 #145

Why in heaven's name would they sign? pat_k Oct 2016 #158

It seem you have no understanding of dynamics in some families. LisaL Oct 2016 #164

Sadly, individuals suffering that level of psychological pat_k Oct 2016 #181

I think it boils down to would you vote exactly the same iwillalwayswonderwhy Oct 2016 #209

Why fill out in presence of anyone? pat_k Oct 2016 #221

We need to keep an eye on states like Oregon and Florida. NCTraveler Oct 2016 #131

Florida? LisaL Oct 2016 #134

Yes, Florida. NCTraveler Oct 2016 #135

I support voting by mail. I wish PA did that for their entire election. clutterbox1830 Oct 2016 #140

Some people might end up not able to vote. Because they are trying to vote by mail. LisaL Oct 2016 #142

There are many more people that will not vote b/c that can't get to the poll stations or not willing clutterbox1830 Oct 2016 #146

Yes. Lines are tantamount to a poll tax. pat_k Oct 2016 #166

people with disabilities in Oregon can always find ways to get their ballot in sherlocksistah Oct 2016 #170

That's not Oregon. nt fleabiscuit Oct 2016 #148

Considering OP wants Oregon voting system extended to other states, I would think it is relevant. LisaL Oct 2016 #154

Discussion is broader than the OR implementation... pat_k Oct 2016 #168

That wasn't our system. Not relevant. fleabiscuit Oct 2016 #192

No excuse absentee in NJ is seriously flawed. pat_k Oct 2016 #165

So there are obvious problems with partial mail in vote? LisaL Oct 2016 #176

Repeat of previous (post number cited below) pat_k Oct 2016 #190

Indeed. Expecting my ballot in the mailbox today. Some friends voted yesterday. Coyotl Oct 2016 #150

My CA absentee ballot...which I consider early voting.. Tikki Oct 2016 #151

Love it duffyduff Oct 2016 #177

It's never good to have only one way to vote NoGoodNamesLeft Oct 2016 #182

There isn't just "one way" in OR and WA pat_k Oct 2016 #193

And I am looking forward to voting by going to a polling place and voting on a machine with a LisaL Oct 2016 #197

Each and every worry addressed. pat_k Oct 2016 #200

Not to my satisfaction. LisaL Oct 2016 #205

Because there is no way to... pat_k Oct 2016 #208

OK, what about someone who is homeless and doesn't use services? NoGoodNamesLeft Oct 2016 #202

Outreach efforts: pat_k Oct 2016 #207

You don't understand homeless people at all. I do...I worked with them and used to be one myself. NoGoodNamesLeft Oct 2016 #210

I await response to 217 pat_k Oct 2016 #220

Your answer is that people should be able to vote however the fuck they want NoGoodNamesLeft Oct 2016 #229

Non-answer. pat_k Oct 2016 #234

You sound like a goddamned Pro-Lifer trying to regulate how I vote. NoGoodNamesLeft Oct 2016 #236

The type of system you advocate is more... pat_k Oct 2016 #238

well then don't "fucking" do it! sherlocksistah Oct 2016 #245

Who would want to? duffyduff Oct 2016 #195

After all the back and forth pat_k Oct 2016 #203

Colorado is the same meadowlark5 Oct 2016 #204

So, voting by mail seems awesome, and I think more often than not it is awesome. I just JCanete Oct 2016 #218

There is an exhange above on the subject pat_k Oct 2016 #223

Vote By Mail Solves a Whole Host of Election Issues Thunderbeast Oct 2016 #228

Some of the responses on this thread is EXACTLY why I will NEVER register as Democrat NoGoodNamesLeft Oct 2016 #230

My feelings exactly. LisaL Oct 2016 #233

The problems have been made crystal clear. pat_k Oct 2016 #237

I just put that person on ignore... NoGoodNamesLeft Oct 2016 #240

Whew. What a relief. pat_k Oct 2016 #242

OR and WA style voting offer more ways to "vote however the hell you want" pat_k Oct 2016 #235

Hi, I'm from Oregon and I know better than everyone else about how they should vote. NoGoodNamesLeft Oct 2016 #239

I'm sure that, like WA, OR has.. pat_k Oct 2016 #241

Wow, 245 replies to this post! sherlocksistah Oct 2016 #246

Dec 1969 #