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musicblind

(4,484 posts)
17. Hillary Clinton was not a weak candidate.
Thu Dec 1, 2016, 09:56 AM
Dec 2016

She had flaws, but her biggest problem was an onslaught of vicious Lies and the Lying Liars who tell them.

I voted for Sanders during the primary, but I am not a fool. I know that Sanders would not have coasted to victory either. As long as people are willing to tell outright lies about another person, and saying Clinton is corrupt is a lie, then we are fighting an uphill battle.

The word of the year is post-truth.

K&R! stonecutter357 Dec 2016 #1
Well Hillary was more the lesser of two evils el_bryanto Dec 2016 #2
I liked Hillary alot and would have had to hold my nose to vote for Bernie...didn't like him. Demsrule86 Dec 2016 #160
Another pick on Sanders OP, to drive views and comments, but Ill play. TheBlackAdder Dec 2016 #172
Well those who didn't vote for her because she didn't worship at Bernie's feet Demsrule86 Dec 2016 #174
Still, there's the disconnect with political reality. TheBlackAdder Dec 2016 #175
She didn't win with the people who wanted CHANGE TexasBushwhacker Dec 2016 #177
There are a few reasons for that, and many are not opening up their minds that motivations vary. TheBlackAdder Dec 2016 #180
I'm glad I'm not the only one TexasBushwhacker Dec 2016 #181
No. There were not "two evils" on the ballot. tinrobot Dec 2016 #183
I guess you aren't familiar with the phrase lesser of two evils el_bryanto Dec 2016 #184
It is equivocation. It means both candidates are "evil" tinrobot Dec 2016 #187
Well how would you have phrased it? If it had been Sanders and Trump for example? nt el_bryanto Dec 2016 #189
I dunno... I'm sure you can come up with something that works. tinrobot Dec 2016 #193
None of those convey the same thing though, do they? el_bryanto Dec 2016 #195
You don't always need to disclose the complete inner workings of your decision process. tinrobot Dec 2016 #198
That seems dishonest and counter productive el_bryanto Dec 2016 #199
Sowing doubt about a candidate is productive? tinrobot Dec 2016 #200
Anyone and I mean anyone that uses the term the lesser of two evils... LiberalFighter Dec 2016 #194
OK - that makes no sense el_bryanto Dec 2016 #196
This message was self-deleted by its author Duckhunter935 Dec 2016 #3
Hillary WASN'T a weak candidate. She was one of the strongest candidates any party has ever fielded EffieBlack Dec 2016 #6
So true... but but but they want to say.. White people in rural areas who voted for a racist boston bean Dec 2016 #10
Its funny how Sanders people pointed this out in the primary and Clinton people ignored it GummyBearz Dec 2016 #58
You really think that Bernie would have won the general when he couldn't win the primary? (nt) ehrnst Dec 2016 #65
Well his head to head matchup numbers vs trump were better than Hillary's were GummyBearz Dec 2016 #80
Can you provide a link to those stats? (nt) ehrnst Dec 2016 #83
These are the first ones I found, the dates are a few months off though GummyBearz Dec 2016 #85
They'd have to include Bloomberg since he said he was in if Bernie won the primary. n/t seaglass Dec 2016 #93
As if that was definite. JudyM Dec 2016 #169
Everyone who doesnt participate in the GE have polling better than if they were participating. stevenleser Dec 2016 #102
And that goes both ways GummyBearz Dec 2016 #113
There is no both ways. Its a very simple issue. nt stevenleser Dec 2016 #115
Uh no GummyBearz Dec 2016 #117
+1000 and 10% point spread. JudyM Dec 2016 #171
Exactly. So tired of the flogging of that "oh, he would've been decimated for being socialist" JudyM Dec 2016 #170
Yes, Bernie beats trump. He wins every state HRC did PLUS the rust belt. A tragic missed oppurtunity jack_krass Dec 2016 #166
good post. Wonder how the general election would have turned out if Sanders was the VP? Sunlei Dec 2016 #77
Well said. These are the facts that I can't help ruminating on. TonyPDX Dec 2016 #90
Post removed Post removed Dec 2016 #34
that is utter crap dsc Dec 2016 #41
The conspiracy part was crap. Even though the DNC favored her, they Chakab Dec 2016 #49
Party leadership continues in mistake mode.... RiverStone Dec 2016 #155
Amen jack_krass Dec 2016 #167
Don't want to pick a fight, but that was not my experience in talking to folks ReverendHeretic Dec 2016 #52
"Talking to folks" is no substitute for objective, verified numbers and analysis. LanternWaste Dec 2016 #126
yup, like all those numbers proving that Hillary would win? ReverendHeretic Dec 2016 #154
Welcome to DU n/t musicblind Dec 2016 #129
Didn't kick ass in Wisconsin; didn't even go there. MadDAsHell Dec 2016 #137
If she was such a strong candidate, why were her popularity numbers so low? Her trust numbers? JudyM Dec 2016 #157
IF BERNIE had worked HARDER for Hillary, it would have helped her alot. trueblue2007 Dec 2016 #168
Hillary Clinton was not a weak candidate. musicblind Dec 2016 #17
She had 25 years of smears, many of which Bernie supporters believed ehrnst Dec 2016 #68
The 53% of women who voted against her were Bernie supporters? TonyPDX Dec 2016 #92
No - 54% of all women who voted voted FOR Hillary. Please get your stats straight. (nt) ehrnst Dec 2016 #95
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/01/us/politics/white-women-helped-elect-donald-trump.html?_r0 TonyPDX Dec 2016 #107
White women does not equal "women" spooky3 Dec 2016 #188
Losing a majority of any sector was her problem, not mine. Why did they vote against her? TonyPDX Dec 2016 #191
when you understand more about statistics, let's have a conversation. spooky3 Dec 2016 #192
Again, an allegation lacking any objective evidence to support it. LanternWaste Dec 2016 #124
You give 3 GS speeches for $675K and them's the breaks BeyondGeography Dec 2016 #4
There was NONE and STILL NO boston bean Dec 2016 #7
There didn't have to be BeyondGeography Dec 2016 #11
Such direct evidence wouldn't exist. el_bryanto Dec 2016 #12
she had a right to be exempt from that perception, she deserved the benefit of the doubt NRQ891 Dec 2016 #20
This message was self-deleted by its author Duckhunter935 Dec 2016 #144
And Trump's speaking fees were as high as a million and a half. musicblind Dec 2016 #18
Was Trump running in the Democratic primary? BeyondGeography Dec 2016 #23
She would have been better off by simple releasing the transcripts... TCJ70 Dec 2016 #25
Bernie hiding his tax returns was also an issue. (nt) ehrnst Dec 2016 #97
No argument from me. n/t TCJ70 Dec 2016 #125
This message was self-deleted by its author Duckhunter935 Dec 2016 #146
Bernie's tax returns was not a negative for Hillary. Raster Dec 2016 #176
Had the Democrats not pounded her on the speeches musicblind Dec 2016 #132
Rooting for political malpractice is not a strategy BeyondGeography Dec 2016 #136
So "what the hell was Bernie thinking" when he refused to release his tax returns? (nt) ehrnst Dec 2016 #69
That was fair game too BeyondGeography Dec 2016 #76
Not among Bernie's supporters, it wasn't. (nt) ehrnst Dec 2016 #99
This message was self-deleted by its author Duckhunter935 Dec 2016 #148
This message was self-deleted by its author Duckhunter935 Dec 2016 #147
What number thread is this for you on this subject? FYI NWCorona Dec 2016 #5
You seem to be counting.. Why don't you tell me. boston bean Dec 2016 #8
At least two. NWCorona Dec 2016 #9
Not a whole two. Say it ain't so. nt. NCTraveler Dec 2016 #14
OMG, someone made two entire threads to counter the dozens of B.S. threads out there! musicblind Dec 2016 #19
Lol NWCorona Dec 2016 #27
How many threads saying BS would have won? mcar Dec 2016 #37
More than two but most are written by people I never heard of NWCorona Dec 2016 #50
Post removed Post removed Dec 2016 #13
And you are absolutely correct. The only thing Sanders accomplished by smearing Hillary R B Garr Dec 2016 #15
what were Hillary's talking points again? What was she selling pre GE? Cuz i listened to her JCanete Dec 2016 #140
K&R! n/t musicblind Dec 2016 #16
Bernie Sanders is a member of the Senate Democratic leadership and therefore Larkspur Dec 2016 #21
Sanders is a Democrat? NCTraveler Dec 2016 #24
Post removed Post removed Dec 2016 #30
Do you have any comments about what she actually posted? R B Garr Dec 2016 #33
Look at how you have to explain it. NCTraveler Dec 2016 #47
He was not elected to his "leadership" post, he was appointed by MADem Dec 2016 #121
You are mistaken. He wasn't elected by his Senate peers. He was APPOINTED as an MADem Dec 2016 #118
This message was self-deleted by its author MADem Dec 2016 #123
Is Al Franken?? Nitpicking over a name. lostnfound Dec 2016 #32
Yes, Franken is. He self identifies as one. NCTraveler Dec 2016 #133
This message was self-deleted by its author Duckhunter935 Dec 2016 #149
That truly makes no sense. nt. NCTraveler Dec 2016 #150
This message was self-deleted by its author Duckhunter935 Dec 2016 #162
One of those you mention, like Sanders, isn't a Democrat. NCTraveler Dec 2016 #164
This message was self-deleted by its author Duckhunter935 Dec 2016 #165
Yet I've heard him attacking the Democratic party, even recently. R B Garr Dec 2016 #26
Criticizing the failed policies of the Democratic Party is not bashing the Democratic Party Larkspur Dec 2016 #35
As well as criticizing those who caused a great divide within the party. R B Garr Dec 2016 #40
HRC bashed Obama in 2008 yet he won the primary and GE despite her Larkspur Dec 2016 #53
At least you finally admit what was obvious: Bernie's whole strategy R B Garr Dec 2016 #61
Apparently that means jettisoning the social justice issues that have served the Dems well. ehrnst Dec 2016 #100
Actually he's no longer a Dem. He went back to being an Independent. brush Dec 2016 #75
Better get on the horn to Chuck Schumer before he appoints him to another committee, then. TonyPDX Dec 2016 #96
Chuck Schumer handed Bernie his Senate seat which is why Bernie doesn't point a finger ehrnst Dec 2016 #103
So Bernie needed to be bought off? That's some fancy speculating there. TonyPDX Dec 2016 #108
Agreed. TonyPDX Dec 2016 #94
Sanders is not a Democrat DemonGoddess Dec 2016 #120
No it should not ...he is not a Democrat...he could be one...but chose not to...also this is the Demsrule86 Dec 2016 #161
Are we serious here? PatsFan87 Dec 2016 #22
Unfortunately. Welcome to DU where we eat our own. Tobin S. Dec 2016 #31
Yawn. It was an election, you do what you can to win. Ace Rothstein Dec 2016 #28
Been a member of DU for 12+ years, this post makes me want to leave lostnfound Dec 2016 #29
She lost for the same reasons Jeb Bush lost. Gore1FL Dec 2016 #36
Post removed Post removed Dec 2016 #38
Hey Mr. Boston - FairWinds Dec 2016 #39
Reality is that it was Hillary who had to take it easy on Bernie so as not R B Garr Dec 2016 #43
The word "reality" doesn't belong anywhere near your post. Jokerman Dec 2016 #46
Now that's funny. Apparently you didn't watch the debates. R B Garr Dec 2016 #55
"Are we on the side of working people or big-money interests" ehrnst Dec 2016 #72
There had to be something in his taxes that the MSM would have run with... bettyellen Dec 2016 #134
The "rape fantasy" essay. The "orgasm boxes." The lack of a job until his 40s. BobbyDrake Dec 2016 #111
Wow, you sure can squeeze a lot of smears into just a few words . . FairWinds Dec 2016 #178
This discussion is just a distraction Politicub Dec 2016 #42
Making perfect the enemy of the good. WhiteTara Dec 2016 #44
Yep. And now we have horrific. (nt) ehrnst Dec 2016 #73
As we knew we would. I wonder WhiteTara Dec 2016 #79
DU rec...nt SidDithers Dec 2016 #45
People are "still making those arguments" about millions of fraudulent voters in California democrank Dec 2016 #48
She was called that for OVER 28 YEARS n2doc Dec 2016 #51
This panader0 Dec 2016 #66
The same asshats who called HRC "Goldwater Girl" are fine hailing Elizabeth Warran as a hero BobbyDrake Dec 2016 #54
I agree that it was ridiculous to hammer her over her political beliefs at 16-17. StevieM Dec 2016 #86
Well, two things. I agree, dragging out somebody's past that is that far removed is ungracious. JCanete Dec 2016 #142
Ignoring systemic racism and sexism in favor of "color-blind" and "gender-blind" solutions WILL BobbyDrake Dec 2016 #145
Well we shouldn't be color or gender blind. Who is promoting that? Warren or Sanders? I've never JCanete Dec 2016 #152
Sanders is all over the new demanding an end to "identity politics." BobbyDrake Dec 2016 #153
There is a refutation of this posted on these boards. He said we can't just offer identity politics. JCanete Dec 2016 #158
No, this did not harm Clinton. ananda Dec 2016 #56
Yeah, we need to stop catering to racists and,..what the hell are you talking about???? Spitfire of ATJ Dec 2016 #57
There is nothing useful or productive in this post mountain grammy Dec 2016 #59
This entire forum is geared towards rehashing what went wrong in 2016. As such... stevenleser Dec 2016 #101
The best way to deal with them is to mock them. Call them Trump humpers, Bernie Bros, progressoid Dec 2016 #60
Yes... Mike Nelson Dec 2016 #62
So did Trump and look at what it got him randr Dec 2016 #63
That first sentence was ...pretty complicated Kolesar Dec 2016 #64
"everything rigged against them (sound familiar)" Sounds VERY familiar...lots of that jmg257 Dec 2016 #67
And the civil war re-enactors are still at it. mac56 Dec 2016 #70
I still think Sanders is and was a HUGE benefit to the D party.We are weaker without him,much weaker Sunlei Dec 2016 #71
I disagree. I think that he is an outsider has turned the party back in terms of ehrnst Dec 2016 #74
an outsider? the mans been in our top government for decades! Sunlei Dec 2016 #81
He refused to join the party except temporarily to get establishment cred for his run. ehrnst Dec 2016 #84
He didn't want to split the vote and then run in the general election & hand republicans easy win. Sunlei Dec 2016 #87
And yet that was ultimately all that he accomplished anyway. He put Democrat against Democrat. BobbyDrake Dec 2016 #112
He did not, Ds split themselves and still today they do the same thing. Sunlei Dec 2016 #119
So if Obama lost in 2008, it would be Hillary's fault for running against him in the primary? killbotfactory Dec 2016 #127
If Hillary had behaved like Bernie did, maybe. but Obama was a man, so there's that. ehrnst Dec 2016 #182
She probably would have been blamed democrattotheend Dec 2016 #190
It's true that Bernie is an outsider to the Corporocracy . . FairWinds Dec 2016 #179
I think, or I would like to think it's a guilty conscience-- ismnotwasm Dec 2016 #78
fagedaboutit! tiredtoo Dec 2016 #82
Whether it's accurate or not, the fact remains that Hillary and Donald were the two most distrusted Cal33 Dec 2016 #88
Yes, every democrat absolutely LOVED Hillary before Bernie came along... killbotfactory Dec 2016 #89
Thank you. TonyPDX Dec 2016 #91
Why is that bill a big deal? JHan Dec 2016 #98
Before Bernie, apparently no one needed to "love" Hillary for her to be an acceptable candidate. ehrnst Dec 2016 #104
Before Bernie democrats had no choice. killbotfactory Dec 2016 #110
I take it you don't understand the background to that bill? ismnotwasm Dec 2016 #106
The bill was designed to take the issue of flag burning back to the supreme court killbotfactory Dec 2016 #109
What a facinating understanding of the bill. ismnotwasm Dec 2016 #116
Another thing to add to the growing list of #WhyTrumpWon.. JHan Dec 2016 #128
You can say that a bill that people forgot about had no impact on the GE, because on the one hand it JCanete Dec 2016 #138
Yes, there is a conflicted history between Clintons and some progressives.. JHan Dec 2016 #141
always good to have a respectful discussion with you! I'm not sure it fits this sub-forum, but if JCanete Dec 2016 #151
feeling is mutual, good to have a calm discussion on things. And I'm up for a thread on trade..:) JHan Dec 2016 #159
"Senator Clinton, in Pander Mode" - NYT killbotfactory Dec 2016 #131
So you find an OP piece? ismnotwasm Dec 2016 #139
It's over. Canadaexpat2 Dec 2016 #105
I never said one negative thing about Hillary. mahina Dec 2016 #114
K&R! DemonGoddess Dec 2016 #122
Many Still Calling Her Names, Primary Rigged otohara Dec 2016 #130
Well good for you about never voting for a racist. The problem with that statement though, JCanete Dec 2016 #135
And a HUGE step is recognizing and acknowledginthat how people of varying ethnic and minority groups ismnotwasm Dec 2016 #143
Oh. Um, *who* was too important and too smart? JudyM Dec 2016 #156
Sanders' baseless charges hurt Clinton in the general election Gothmog Dec 2016 #163
K&R Cha Dec 2016 #173
Post removed Post removed Dec 2016 #185
Yes, she should have. ismnotwasm Dec 2016 #186
KICK Cha Dec 2016 #197
"Why are people still making those arguments?" Orsino Dec 2016 #201
Ditto to everything you said. Tarheel_Dem Dec 2016 #202
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