I think Hillary would have lost the pop vote outright if she tacked center like this. (Reply #44)

In the discussion thread: And the 2016 Ralph Nader Award Goes to Bernie Sanders - Time.com [View all]

Response to factfinder_77 (Original post)

Wed Jan 18, 2017, 09:06 AM

44. I think Hillary would have lost the pop vote outright if she tacked center like this.

Especially on race and social justice issues.

She did a HUGE amount of work to build an intersectional base, and she's going to throw it away by trying to calm down some of the deplorables? And a lot of her minority base voters are economically left as well too (yes believe it or not, minorities really like progressive economics). And Hillary, while she was conflated with Bill to a huge extent, was the genuine leftist of the two and in many ways 2016 was a return to her roots (2008 I feel like was a lot more influenced by Bill).

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180 replies	Author	Time	Post
And the 2016 Ralph Nader Award Goes to Bernie Sanders - Time.com [View all]	factfinder_77	Jan 2017	OP
Bernie DISTRACTED Hillary!	HassleCat	Jan 2017	#1
Damn that Bernie	Jake Stern	Jan 2017	#8
No, The Systems Not Totally Rigged. But That Idea Sure Helped Donald Trump.	Gothmog	Jan 2017	#46
Primary accusations always can be used in the general election --	karynnj	Jan 2017	#62
Sanders also claimed that the election process was rigged and Trump quoted him	Gothmog	Jan 2017	#101
Both Clinton and Sanders worked for the nominee after the primaries ended.	karynnj	Jan 2017	#103
I was a delegate to the national convention	Gothmog	Jan 2017	#106
I know how the Vermont delegates were chosen	karynnj	Jan 2017	#108
Under DNC rules the candidate has the right to approve or reject delegates	Gothmog	Jan 2017	#111
More like Hey you Corporatist!	WhiteTara	Jan 2017	#63
no, he offered unrealistic promises based on simplistic solutions which appeals to large numbers of	Bill USA	Jan 2017	#170
Really on a roll ain't ya..	pangaia	Jan 2017	#2
Yeah no one wants to face this but....	bettyellen	Jan 2017	#3
The result would have been exactly the same	Ken Burch	Jan 2017	#6
Three strikes was supposed to be for violent felons and the GOP took it further ...	bettyellen	Jan 2017	#9
+1	betsuni	Jan 2017	#10
That was how they sold it...	Wounded Bear	Jan 2017	#11
Post removed	Post removed	Jan 2017	#13
Message auto-removed	Name removed	Jan 2017	#57
Has Sanders changed his FEC filing to run as a Democrat for Senate in 2018?	Gothmog	Jan 2017	#59
It's what it was- and GOPers changed the laws...	bettyellen	Jan 2017	#20
Oh gosh no. Bernie gave ammunition to the same folks who STILL are saying	Eliot Rosewater	Jan 2017	#152
no one want to face fact THAT BERNIE HARDLY CAMPAIGNED FOR HILLARY.	trueblue2007	Jan 2017	#25
Sanders was in the democratic race for media coverage and money	Gothmog	Jan 2017	#48
Hogwash. Your hobby of making Sanders out to be a greedy money-grubbing opportunist is pathetic	ThirdEye	Jan 2017	#85
Right. According to him, bernie has to have suitcases of dirty cash stashed somewhere...	dionysus	Jan 2017	#89
It's also anti-Semitic af	Arazi	Jan 2017	#91
Have you bought his latest book yet?	Gothmog	Jan 2017	#98
The OP is mostly BS. Sanders attacks had an effect but Hillary still won the pop. vote by 3 million	brush	Jan 2017	#56
Not only is it BS. It's the same dog whistle narrative we've been hearing for 2 months.	Garrett78	Jan 2017	#72
+1000. I bet she took her foot off the gas in a few states she thought he	R B Garr	Jan 2017	#116
Utterly ridiculous. Clearly you have not seen his schedule. He busted his ass on the trail for her,	JudyM	Jan 2017	#137
The primaries hurt her a lot, but Bernie eventually jump in	Alice11111	Jan 2017	#126
He campaigned for her quite a bit.	thesquanderer	Jan 2017	#180
yep.	boston bean	Jan 2017	#39
Message auto-removed	Name removed	Jan 2017	#54
I agree with this	bravenak	Jan 2017	#4
I also agree with the analysis in the OP	Gothmog	Jan 2017	#47
It's certainly truth	bravenak	Jan 2017	#80
The OP is promoting the same narrative Bernie supporters have been pushing since the election.	Garrett78	Jan 2017	#94
heck I'll beg along with you in that case.	JHan	Jan 2017	#95
I know thats right	bravenak	Jan 2017	#114
I would support Hillary Clinton if she ran for POTUS again	Gothmog	Jan 2017	#147
Put me in the long line that says bull$hit.	CentralMass	Jan 2017	#5
Shout loudest + throw tantrums + don't see any bumper stickers they think they are the majority. T	factfinder_77	Jan 2017	#14
It is anyone's turn.	CentralMass	Jan 2017	#37
Exactly!	Duppers	Jan 2017	#18
Post removed	Post removed	Jan 2017	#7
The guy who wrote this, Gil Troy, wrote one book called "Hillary Clinton, Polarizing First Lady"	Ken Burch	Jan 2017	#12
Thanks. Figures.	Duppers	Jan 2017	#17
shhhhh!	Locrian	Jan 2017	#31
That doesn't really address his argument	treestar	Jan 2017	#69
It's pertinent that the man has an anti-progressive bias of VERY long standing	Ken Burch	Jan 2017	#83
Yet he's promoting the same narrative that DU posters have been promoting for 2 months.	Garrett78	Jan 2017	#84
It's NOT that the party should stop talking about race or talk about it less	Ken Burch	Jan 2017	#141
Contrary to your assertions, Sanders policies are not that popular in the real world	Gothmog	Jan 2017	#150
Thank you!	MelissaB	Jan 2017	#110
Thanks. Good point. nt	riderinthestorm	Jan 2017	#136
Centrist think they should be in charge, oops.	Rex	Jan 2017	#140
This narrative is bull shit no matter which side it comes from.	Garrett78	Jan 2017	#15
Whatever else, you can never underestimate the influence Comey had on this election	world wide wally	Jan 2017	#16
That article is full-on love fest for Bill's campaigning and policies when in office. I'm sorry but	JCanete	Jan 2017	#19
You talk like Bill Clinton was worse than bush and trump.	boston bean	Jan 2017	#41
Yep	Gothmog	Jan 2017	#50
no I don't. That's a hell of a leap, made without a lick of evidence. nt	JCanete	Jan 2017	#97
No, that wasn't what that person said.	Ken Burch	Jan 2017	#128
we so far right right now with our new leader (DUMP) Bill Clinton looks like a radical leftist.	boston bean	Jan 2017	#130
That isn't even the point. Yes, Trump is to the right of Bill Clinton.	Ken Burch	Jan 2017	#133
No that is not the case. And I DISAGREE!	boston bean	Jan 2017	#134
If you actually elaborate here, some of us will actually read it. It won't be in vain, I promise. nt	JCanete	Jan 2017	#173
You are wrong yet again	Gothmog	Jan 2017	#148
The OP is promoting the same narrative Bernie supporters have been pushing since the election.	Garrett78	Jan 2017	#71
We agree the narrative is bullshit.	JCanete	Jan 2017	#102
It isn't that Bernie's positions on various issues are unpopular or wrong. Here's the problem:	Garrett78	Jan 2017	#107
we've had this discussion before, or at least we've been conversing about it in the same threads,	JCanete	Jan 2017	#109
Read Paul Kennedy's Rise and Fall of the Great Powers	LanternWaste	Jan 2017	#117
seriously? this is a message board and people are discussing things. I'm talking about in THIS	JCanete	Jan 2017	#120
I don't have much time, so I'll have to keep this short.	Garrett78	Jan 2017	#155
Thanks for the conversation. This won't be up much longer, so I know you may not have the time to	JCanete	Jan 2017	#165
I have a free moment to respond.	Garrett78	Jan 2017	#166
thanks again for the discourse! Just to answer G really quick, because I think this is important.	JCanete	Jan 2017	#167
And, see, I think racism is the root.	Garrett78	Jan 2017	#168
I'll just say quickly, that if that is the root, then you would have to be suggesting that we	JCanete	Jan 2017	#171
I think it's the root of why people vote against their class interests.	Garrett78	Jan 2017	#175
but as to human nature where does racism get placed? What fundamental itch is it scratching?	JCanete	Jan 2017	#177
Here's the problems with that response	Ken Burch	Jan 2017	#135
I didn't say Sanders advocated not fighting racism.	Garrett78	Jan 2017	#153
O.K., I read that. I agree with all of it and I think the candidate I backed in the primaries	Ken Burch	Jan 2017	#158
Then I Suppose The 2016 Al Gore Award Goes To...	chwaliszewski	Jan 2017	#21
And the 2016 Iran Hostage Crisis Award goes to Comey...	JHB	Jan 2017	#26
All sorts of things to point fingers at...	chwaliszewski	Jan 2017	#30
There were many, many contributing factors, and with the margin so thin...	JHB	Jan 2017	#38
Comey is pond scum and lacks any professional or other ethics	Gothmog	Jan 2017	#149
Thanks factfinder	Cha	Jan 2017	#22
Hillary was entitled to the nomination and Bernie	jg10003	Jan 2017	#23
Or Democrats wanted Hillary	WhiteTara	Jan 2017	#65
Ignoring for a moment any possible unfairness during the primaries	ThirdEye	Jan 2017	#86
This is more about the way he did it	treestar	Jan 2017	#68
"Clean issue oriented campaign" UNTIL New York. Scorched earth after that	emulatorloo	Jan 2017	#129
Can't say Bernie HELPED get a strong nominee to the top of the ticket	SticksnStones	Jan 2017	#24
Issues matter and Bernie's had broad cross-over appeal. Many Dems felt his issues mattered a great	JudyM	Jan 2017	#138
Post removed	Post removed	Jan 2017	#27
Fake Progressivism ushered in Trump.	delisen	Jan 2017	#32
Republicans were the isolationist, America First crowd before PH	Cooley Hurd	Jan 2017	#35
Burton Wheeler-D Montana, David Walsh-D MA, Key Pittman,D-Nv	delisen	Jan 2017	#43
This	otohara	Jan 2017	#53
I agree	WhiteTara	Jan 2017	#66
More like fake progressives. nt	JTFrog	Jan 2017	#33
My sentiments exactly. n/t	Lil Missy	Jan 2017	#28
A lot wrong with this article, some right.	Tortmaster	Jan 2017	#29
(1a) So was Johnson, in a sense	JHB	Jan 2017	#40
K&R n/t	JTFrog	Jan 2017	#34
Unlike Nader, Bernie's name was NOT on the GE Ballot.	PotatoChip	Jan 2017	#36
Bernie Sanders was on the ballot and unperformed Clinton	Gothmog	Jan 2017	#60
Hmmm... spammm....	dionysus	Jan 2017	#90
Facts are not span unless facts scare you	Gothmog	Jan 2017	#96
uh...	kenfrequed	Jan 2017	#115
You got to be kidding-no one in the real world believe in those silly match up polls	Gothmog	Jan 2017	#123
Absurd	kenfrequed	Jan 2017	#156
Sanders was treated with kid gloves by the Clinton campaign and there was a ton of material	Gothmog	Jan 2017	#160
Another comically bad op-ed	kenfrequed	Jan 2017	#161
Sanders does not have a good record at all and would have been destroyed	Gothmog	Jan 2017	#162
Democrats would be insane to nominate Sanders	Gothmog	Jan 2017	#125
Dana Milbank?	kenfrequed	Jan 2017	#157
Sanders was not vetted by the press and would have been a weak candidate	Gothmog	Jan 2017	#159
Eichenwald writes a fishwrap	kenfrequed	Jan 2017	#163
More discussion of the Fishwrap of Eichenwald	kenfrequed	Jan 2017	#164
You have been cutting and pasting the same opinions (not facts)	dionysus	Jan 2017	#118
Ignoring the facts will not make the facts false	Gothmog	Jan 2017	#122
Believing an opinion doesn't make it a fact. Op-eds are opinion. Nt	dionysus	Jan 2017	#131
Where are the millions/billions/trillions of new voters that Sanders promised	Gothmog	Jan 2017	#145
Facts are good things	Gothmog	Jan 2017	#143
Thank you for that, Gothmog.. valuble information like that can't	Cha	Jan 2017	#142
Sanders' proposals are not that popular	Gothmog	Jan 2017	#146
Polls suggest a majority support for his economic stances, but bigotry gets in the way.	Garrett78	Jan 2017	#169
K&R.	Paladin	Jan 2017	#42
I think Hillary would have lost the pop vote outright if she tacked center like this.	forjusticethunders	Jan 2017	#44
It's the same narrative Bernie supporters have been promoting since the election.	Garrett78	Jan 2017	#74
This is very true	Gothmog	Jan 2017	#45
Did Bernie hurt Hillary Clinton as she moved into the GE? Definitely	NWCorona	Jan 2017	#49
Actually Sanders and Nader have a great deal in common	Gothmog	Jan 2017	#61
Nader has things in common with a lot of elected Democrats	NWCorona	Jan 2017	#64
Do you tire of being wrong?	Gothmog	Jan 2017	#99
I don't think either of us are wrong but what ever	NWCorona	Jan 2017	#105
Sanders and his agenda was on the ballot in 2016 and that agenda failed	Gothmog	Jan 2017	#113
Why did it fail in 2016? I can't say for sure but it was a mix of things	NWCorona	Jan 2017	#119
Sanders' agenda failed because it had no chance of being adopted in the real world	Gothmog	Jan 2017	#121
I'm willing to give it time.	NWCorona	Jan 2017	#132
When will these millions/billions/trillions of new voter show up	Gothmog	Jan 2017	#144
K&R for truth	Haveadream	Jan 2017	#51
This is absolutely true. Bernie distracted Democrats with his attacks on them.	R B Garr	Jan 2017	#52
He didn't distract her. He simply never stopped fanning the flames of division.	NCTraveler	Jan 2017	#55
Ahh this one again from November. Must be running out of anti-Bernie pieces so we need repeats! nt	m-lekktor	Jan 2017	#58
It's the same narrative Bernie supporters have been promoting since the election.	Garrett78	Jan 2017	#70
But of course... certain parties here at DU realize their Sanders bullshit is about to shelf expire.	Raster	Jan 2017	#79
Good analysis	treestar	Jan 2017	#67
Yeah, I remember when Nader campaigned for Gore	killbotfactory	Jan 2017	#73
I know, he really worked his ass off...	Raster	Jan 2017	#100
Lotta words, no data.	Orsino	Jan 2017	#75
Simplistic, and totally ignoring the numerous voter suppression tactics employed by the GOP.	guillaumeb	Jan 2017	#76
I think it's perfectly legitimate to have those debates in a primary	BainsBane	Jan 2017	#77
What a load of shit... I cannot wait until Friday, January 20....	Raster	Jan 2017	#78
God I'm So Sick Of This Bullshit	Z_California	Jan 2017	#81
Let's accept this...	tonedevil	Jan 2017	#82
What a load of horse shit. "He pushed her too far left to prevent an effective recentering"	dionysus	Jan 2017	#87
History judges.	yallerdawg	Jan 2017	#88
All I know is I've heard a whole lot of people voted for Trump only because they disliked Hillary.	Vinca	Jan 2017	#92
Yeah, its obvious the Democratic party wants to continue it's long slide into ignominy	Arazi	Jan 2017	#93
this is the opinion of one columnist..	JHan	Jan 2017	#127
Post removed	Post removed	Jan 2017	#104
"intimidated by Black Lives Matter"?! Fuck this guy.	JustinL	Jan 2017	#112
Well, wasn't Trump their "Person of the Year" so why not?	flvegan	Jan 2017	#124
Time also named Trump Person of the Year.	Rex	Jan 2017	#139
OFFS	montanacowboy	Jan 2017	#151
Wow. Glad 2016 Postmortem Forum is coming to an end.	tecelote	Jan 2017	#154
This article is plenty nasty and unfair to HRC as well.	StevieM	Jan 2017	#172
After the first paragraph I had to LMOA--Really now? Bernie hurt Clinton's chances? Ugh! n/a	vaberella	Jan 2017	#174
I'm sure the Repukes	customerserviceguy	Jan 2017	#176
This is just counterproductive and serves no purpose other than to divide and conquer.	AgadorSparticus	Jan 2017	#178
So the only way a Dem can win is to be a moderate Republican?	thesquanderer	Jan 2017	#179

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