2016 Postmortem

TeddyR

(2,493 posts)

139. "They would all be in well regulated militias as the amendment requires"

Fri Jul 10, 2015, 03:35 PM

Jul 2015

Is simply not correct. First, the Supreme Court disagrees with you, and the 2d Amendment itself is clear -- "the right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed." As the Supreme Court explained, a prefatory clause ("a well regulated militia&quot can't limit the operative clause ("shall not be infringed&quot . Second, it just isn't the Supreme Court that disagrees with you -- there are plenty of law review articles that establish that the 2d Amendment was intended to protect an individual right to keep and bear arms. A good starting point is "The Embarrassing Second Amendment," which can be found here - http://www.constitution.org/2ll/2ndschol/70embar.pdf. Another good read is "The Commonplace Second Amendment," which can be found here - http://www.constitution.org/2ll/2ndschol/90thec.htm.

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Hoping for the best with Bernie and guns- finding his explanations polarizing as some on the right [View all] bigtree Jul 2015 OP

Lame smear, no Bernie quotes. Unrec. Scuba Jul 2015 #1

they're in the article bigtree Jul 2015 #2

Thanks for the quotes. I agree with Sanders. Qutzupalotl Jul 2015 #38

I as well. The bill allowing suits was and is a farce. nt Eleanors38 Jul 2015 #86

I agree with both quotes. nt Mojorabbit Jul 2015 #96

I agree with both those quotes by Bernie as well peacebird Jul 2015 #110

I agree with both quotes. N/T beevul Jul 2015 #119

215 people killed in the first half of 2015 (chicago) questionseverything Jul 2015 #123

If you really want to solve the problem Mnpaul Jul 2015 #158

i agree,we can probably never completely eliminate poverty questionseverything Jul 2015 #164

Well he is right Duckhunter935 Jul 2015 #129

I agree with both these quotes. Bernie is right. Cheese Sandwich Jul 2015 #136

I think Sanders is absolutely right on guns. It's about safety and common sense. Voice for Peace Jul 2015 #146

I agree with the quotes also d_r Jul 2015 #160

Still haven't found anything else to slime Bernie with, eh? Erich Bloodaxe BSN Jul 2015 #3

you know there isn't ONE criticism of Bernie bigtree Jul 2015 #8

The 'smear' part comes in characterizing his statements as 'boilerplate NRA'. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Jul 2015 #14

it's definitely an insult bigtree Jul 2015 #19

To be fair, it should be noted that Bernie gets an "F" from the NRA. Maedhros Jul 2015 #59

the author included that fact in the article bigtree Jul 2015 #69

I was only using the NRA's rating to dispel the notion that Sanders and the NRA Maedhros Jul 2015 #89

You're gonna discover it just isn't that big of a deal to most Americans tularetom Jul 2015 #4

oh, I completely agree that it's not a winning political issue bigtree Jul 2015 #9

Exactly. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Jul 2015 #18

it's actually not an 'attack' bigtree Jul 2015 #25

There is also Sanders unconditional "support by silence" for anything Netanyahu does. Fred Sanders Jul 2015 #35

I am bothered by these issues myself with Bernie, but I am bothered by Hillary's randys1 Jul 2015 #82

Lesson: No one is the perfect candidate, with a perfect track record, with perfect symmetry to everyone. Fred Sanders Jul 2015 #91

If Bernie could do a sex change we could have our first Woman president who also randys1 Jul 2015 #94

Which gets me thinking satirically...what if there was a Perfect Candidate...what would that person be? Fred Sanders Jul 2015 #100

Add the Obama touch, i.e. ability to sing and be funny, and whala...instant president randys1 Jul 2015 #101

Neither Bernie or Hillary can sing near to Obama, I forgot about that! Fred Sanders Jul 2015 #134

I like that Bernie is not a gun control extremist. Most gun owners are law abiding people. Cheese Sandwich Jul 2015 #5

"Gun control extremists". LOL. Keep up the right-wing rhetoric... DanTex Jul 2015 #10

Spoken as if theres no such thing as a "gun control extremist"... beevul Jul 2015 #43

Only in the same sense that Bernie Sanders is an "extremist" on all other issues. DanTex Jul 2015 #49

What a laughable response. beevul Jul 2015 #58

And yet, it's accurate. Bernie voted for the rights of gun corporations over gun victims. DanTex Jul 2015 #64

Only to an anti-gun extremist is it accurate. beevul Jul 2015 #68

"Extreme" is in the eye of the beholder. Like I said in another post, 60% or more Americans DanTex Jul 2015 #72

Your uncited claim is false on its face. beevul Jul 2015 #77

Oops, I forgot that gungeoneers don't believe in statistics. Been a while... DanTex Jul 2015 #84

We can read, at least. beevul Jul 2015 #116

Ignoring data. As usual. There are links to many polls on that page, but DanTex Jul 2015 #121

At the bottom of your link... beevul Jul 2015 #140

They commission polls, and you ignore them. Like I said, I know the NRA drill. DanTex Jul 2015 #147

No more and no less than you'd ignore polls commissioned by the nra. beevul Jul 2015 #149

The polls are conducted by independent polling firms. Not that it matters to you. DanTex Jul 2015 #150

Yeah, and you'd reject them if they were done for the nra. beevul Jul 2015 #152

Well, if you (or any other NRAer) actually presented some data, that would be a start... DanTex Jul 2015 #153

What a clever response. beevul Jul 2015 #167

If there were organizations dedicated to banning cars or alcohol hack89 Jul 2015 #154

Guns are a culture? You made me laugh! Fred Sanders Jul 2015 #36

Br-A-AHA! Controllers use the expression "gun culture" all the time. Now, you deny it? Eleanors38 Jul 2015 #92

What's extreme is the body count. NCTraveler Jul 2015 #40

I'm for more gun control. Cheese Sandwich Jul 2015 #45

"But some extremists are on the warpath to ban all guns." NCTraveler Jul 2015 #50

People who want to repeal the second amendment are extremists Cheese Sandwich Jul 2015 #55

"People who want to repeal the second amendment are extremists" NCTraveler Jul 2015 #78

You don't have to look too far to find extremists. Just look a few posts down. Cheese Sandwich Jul 2015 #132

"That roadsign up ahead! You have entered the NRA Zone�." It's a comforting old smear. Eleanors38 Jul 2015 #99

The remarkable parallels of the tired NRA tripe and some comments on DU is remarkable, no doubt. Fred Sanders Jul 2015 #73

I dont wnat to repeal the 2nd, I want to enforce it, if we did there would not be a single randys1 Jul 2015 #104

"They would all be in well regulated militias as the amendment requires" TeddyR Jul 2015 #139

As I said to another poster... beevul Jul 2015 #143

The Democratic Party recognizes an individual right to keep and bear arms hack89 Jul 2015 #155

And for the sake of not losing the WH, OK...for now randys1 Jul 2015 #157

Unless of course Andy823 Jul 2015 #80

I guess the same thing? Cheese Sandwich Jul 2015 #95

What do you expect Bernie to do about guns? Autumn Jul 2015 #6

I think this person was looking for some rationality on his position bigtree Jul 2015 #11

I don't know who your former governor is or what he has accomplished Autumn Jul 2015 #16

Martin O'Malley is bigtree's former governor. elleng Jul 2015 #177

I don't know why he is pitting it as gangs in Chicago and LA.... NCTraveler Jul 2015 #7

you make good points, NCtraveler bigtree Jul 2015 #12

He will change his rhetoric on this. NCTraveler Jul 2015 #21

you know, I'd like to think he'll come up with a more understanding response bigtree Jul 2015 #27

Obama, "the reality of guns in urban areas are very different from the realities of guns in rural Luminous Animal Jul 2015 #142

Hillary - Philly 2008 Mnpaul Jul 2015 #159

You think that this is a black/white issue? Because not all Autumn Jul 2015 #13

ok. lol. Go on with that thought process. NCTraveler Jul 2015 #15

Sorry I don't need help. As a rural gun owner I know exactly what Bernie meant. Autumn Jul 2015 #20

Bernie said directly that it is a gange problem. Not me. He minced no words. NCTraveler Jul 2015 #23

Nice try. YOU made it a black/white issue. Not all gang members are black and not all rural Autumn Jul 2015 #24

His words, not mine. Deflection simply won't work. NCTraveler Jul 2015 #28

I don't dispute what Bernie said,his words are clear. Your words made it about black/white. Autumn Jul 2015 #47

Not the first time I have seen this tactic used here. NCTraveler Jul 2015 #52

Pointing out the fact Chicago has a big problem with gun violence AgingAmerican Jul 2015 #118

That is not what he did. NCTraveler Jul 2015 #133

There's a tactic being used by a handful of people alright. Autumn Jul 2015 #141

Noted that as well. nt Eleanors38 Jul 2015 #105

Yup, the gang thing is a standard NRA talking point. DanTex Jul 2015 #26

"He makes the sorry baseball-bat analogy to defend his legal immunity vote for gun manufacturers." beevul Jul 2015 #61

I disagree with him on this issue and his framing of it. morningfog Jul 2015 #57

That is something special. NCTraveler Jul 2015 #62

What's odd is watching supposed progressives embrace their inner gun nut in order to avoid DanTex Jul 2015 #17

It is only cognitive dissonance TM99 Jul 2015 #22

No, it's cognitive dissonance when people, for example, say that it's good that he's not a DanTex Jul 2015 #29

Wow, that was a mess of gooblyguk. TM99 Jul 2015 #32

Actually, it was pretty clear. Also, neither Bernie nor strict gun control are going anywhere. DanTex Jul 2015 #33

The day this country "turns into Western Europe" will be the day I'm in the market for a new country cherokeeprogressive Jul 2015 #65

Then clearly you're not a Sanders supporter, or else you haven't been paying attention to his DanTex Jul 2015 #66

Yeah, I'm clearly not a Sanders supporter... cherokeeprogressive Jul 2015 #109

Policy-wise, that's what he's proposing. Western Europe style democratic socialism. DanTex Jul 2015 #113

Keep whistlin' past that graveyard, friend. cherokeeprogressive Jul 2015 #120

Umm, I don't really see how that expression relates to the current conversation. DanTex Jul 2015 #122

Not as clever as some of the crap I see posted by others. cherokeeprogressive Jul 2015 #124

The Third Way is hardly 'moderate' on economic policy. TM99 Jul 2015 #163

Uhm... kenfrequed Jul 2015 #30

We're probably not going to make much progress with guns. That's sad but true. DanTex Jul 2015 #31

OK. kenfrequed Jul 2015 #39

Now you're putting words in my mouth. Let's try and keep things honest. DanTex Jul 2015 #46

Hmm... kenfrequed Jul 2015 #51

Something like 60% or more of Americans support national gun registration. DanTex Jul 2015 #56

No. kenfrequed Jul 2015 #67

If we're going pie-in-the-sky, why leave gun control out? DanTex Jul 2015 #70

Right... kenfrequed Jul 2015 #74

So what's wrong with criticizing Bernie for being a moderate on guns? DanTex Jul 2015 #76

Is an 'F' grade from the NRA the new moderate? kenfrequed Jul 2015 #83

Voting agains the Brady Bill and for legal immunity is moderate (or even conservative). DanTex Jul 2015 #85

Support for gun control is very important to me. Koinos Jul 2015 #41

Gun control is the next great issue, the next Flag to come down, support for gun control is important to most Americans. Fred Sanders Jul 2015 #93

If you want to talk about political reality... cherokeeprogressive Jul 2015 #117

Well that's out of left field. I guess when you have no answers, change the subject... DanTex Jul 2015 #125

Nnnnnnope cherokeeprogressive Jul 2015 #137

Childish name-calling, with an attempt at shaming in order to force a change in opinion. cherokeeprogressive Jul 2015 #63

This is a ridiculous statement. I'm for Bernie and don't think he's perfect. bobbobbins01 Jul 2015 #168

Umm, manufacturers can already be sued for the misuse of their products. DanTex Jul 2015 #171

This issue honestly confuses me a bit, so I'd love some clarification. bobbobbins01 Jul 2015 #173

Fair questions, I'll try my best. DanTex Jul 2015 #174

Thanks for the responses. These give me a lot to think about. bobbobbins01 Jul 2015 #175

Pirate Bay is a better analogy, yes. DanTex Jul 2015 #180

If giving Bernie's voting record is a smear then Bernie has created the smear. A smear is a talking Thinkingabout Jul 2015 #34

Let's note that Hillary isn't great on gun control either. askew Jul 2015 #37

this is the one issue they feel they can attack Sanders on.. frylock Jul 2015 #44

^^^! Eleanors38 Jul 2015 #111

I have disagreements with Sanders on this issue. I find my disagreements rest with the Jefferson23 Jul 2015 #42

Sanders views on guns ibegurpard Jul 2015 #48

Yes Rosa Luxemburg Jul 2015 #54

I think so. Eleanors38 Jul 2015 #115

"Hoping for the best," followed by smear Scootaloo Jul 2015 #53

so this self-described, longtime Sanders supporter who agrees with him on almost every other issue bigtree Jul 2015 #79

Yep. Putting him up there with the NRA and Republicans is a smear Scootaloo Jul 2015 #88

I 'bring' issues I disagree with Sanders on bigtree Jul 2015 #90

Mainly his candidacy. Scootaloo Jul 2015 #102

those quotes are remarkably similar to their language/defenses bigtree Jul 2015 #108

No they're not. see post #112 Scootaloo Jul 2015 #114

Here's what the NRA actually sounds like Scootaloo Jul 2015 #112

I provided his quotes bigtree Jul 2015 #126

You said he sounded like the NRA. I showed you what the NRA actually sounds like Scootaloo Jul 2015 #131

'sounded like the NRA' bigtree Jul 2015 #135

Keep hedging while backing off, bigree Scootaloo Jul 2015 #138

Y.A.W.N. cherokeeprogressive Jul 2015 #60

You won't get much traction with that AgingAmerican Jul 2015 #71

most voters aren't focusing on this election like DU, at this early stage bigtree Jul 2015 #75

Message auto-removed Name removed Jul 2015 #81

How almost all the gun amendments failed Jefferson23 Jul 2015 #87

All the Dixie Swastika flag amendments would have failed just three weeks ago...feel the burn? Fred Sanders Jul 2015 #97

Could you translate for me what you're trying to say? n/t Jefferson23 Jul 2015 #98

Happy to oblige! ...................................... Fred Sanders Jul 2015 #103

That's what I want to see, how do you plan to counter what occurred in the recent past Jefferson23 Jul 2015 #107

And the Heller decision TeddyR Jul 2015 #144

Zero chance as long as the NRA carries clout in elections..I get that. n/t Jefferson23 Jul 2015 #145

Comparing a flag TeddyR Jul 2015 #148

Great image, Fred Sanders. Koinos Jul 2015 #165

It's true HassleCat Jul 2015 #106

He's still defined as a "long-shot" despite being in 2nd place while the rest are at 1% arcane1 Jul 2015 #127

Since the CRA of 1964, gun laws have been liberalized. How can gun-control be a liberal issue? Eleanors38 Jul 2015 #128

Sunlight Foundation: Why gun control faces an uphill battle in the Senate by Lee Drutman Feb.4, 2013 Jefferson23 Jul 2015 #130

I am under the impression Trajan Jul 2015 #151

When you find a candidate you agree with 100%, please let us know. Vinca Jul 2015 #156

let me know when we stop advocating here for the issues we believe in bigtree Jul 2015 #170

I had a similar observation when I heard him defend his vote on one of the Sunday news shows BainsBane Jul 2015 #161

Traditional special interest groups are going to have a hard time manipulating Bernie. aikoaiko Jul 2015 #162

Speaking of guns... Koinos Jul 2015 #166

I largely agree with Sanders on guns, but he'll still be stuck with the party platform Recursion Jul 2015 #169

Isn't Bernie's position consistent with the party platform TeddyR Jul 2015 #179

This is a weak point with Sanders among Democrats BooScout Jul 2015 #172

I feel the same way about war. djean111 Jul 2015 #176

I think this is a weak point TeddyR Jul 2015 #178