2016 Postmortem

ljm2002

(10,751 posts)

123. "with absolutely nothing proposed on how to pay for them"...

Sun Jul 12, 2015, 10:46 AM

Jul 2015

...that is a false statement.

For example: When Bernie Sanders proposed making tuition free at all public universities and colleges, he specifically said he will pay for it by a small transaction fee on automatic trading.

Since you don't know that, it is apparent that you are assuming your conclusions. Not a strong way to argue.

You can't be bothered to actually know Sanders' positions and whether or not he has proposed ways to pay for his proposals. BTW, he is the ranking member of the Senate Budget Committee. Do you think he might, just might, have some notion of how to pay for things?

As far as the Socialist! Socialist! Socialist! issue -- they've been hurling that at Obama for years, to little effect. Bernie Sanders does not run from who he is and that is his biggest asset. These epithets will roll off him like water off a duck's back.

As far as the child out of wedlock -- have you noticed the dramatic social changes that have been happening recently? In a society where the majority of people are for gay marriage, and where the Supreme Court ruled in favor of it -- how seriously, really, do you think that will harm his chances? Has he been responsible in his handling of that situation or not? That is the real question, and I believe the answer will be that he has acted responsibly towards his child.

Sure, the honeymoon period always ends. I believe that Bernie Sanders will withstand the criticisms from within and without his own party. But it is ultimately up to the voters, during the primaries as well as during the general election.

What I don't like is the fear-mongering. You think Hillary Clinton won't be subject to the same Republican BS attacks? Of course she will. Any Democratic candidate will. And your own BS about "he is using the party to run" is just that, BS. He is running as a Democrat specifically to avoid running as a 3rd party spoiler. It seems you would prefer he do the 3rd party thing... right? But he is not, so that criticism is not open to you, so you are criticizing him for "using the party". Bullcrap.

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I like Sanders, really I do......BUT... [View all] BooScout Jul 2015 OP

parties are a state of mind hollysmom Jul 2015 #1

Your sincere concern is noted. HERVEPA Jul 2015 #2

Dismissive tripe Sheepshank Jul 2015 #77

Dismissive tripe is what I'd call the op. RichVRichV Jul 2015 #81

Post removed Post removed Jul 2015 #87

+1 Bobbie Jo Jul 2015 #96

Hopefully you have noticedBernie supporters ...... Sheepshank Jul 2015 #99

A thread started by a Hillary supporter RichVRichV Jul 2015 #103

OP is an Attack? You need to get a thicker skin Sheepshank Jul 2015 #106

I count at least 7 attacks in the op. RichVRichV Jul 2015 #126

+1. Well stated. GoneFishin Jul 2015 #282

it is as much an attack as threads that Clinton supporters karynnj Jul 2015 #284

Oh I know Bobbie Jo Jul 2015 #133

I'm not worried at all. George II Jul 2015 #294

Your concern is noted. RichVRichV Jul 2015 #98

You must be very concerned for Bernie...I would be too Sheepshank Jul 2015 #100

I think you need a dictionary. RichVRichV Jul 2015 #108

Your subtlety is noted. Sheepshank Jul 2015 #109

This message was self-deleted by its author Freelancer Jul 2015 #127

As everyone keeps saying, RichVRichV Jul 2015 #238

This message was self-deleted by its author Freelancer Jul 2015 #256

I consider all the Dem candidates RichVRichV Jul 2015 #260

This message was self-deleted by its author Freelancer Jul 2015 #272

Oh bull--you apparently don't know what "concern trolling" is. MADem Jul 2015 #130

Excellent post, MADem! calimary Jul 2015 #224

Thanks! MADem Jul 2015 #228

See post 258 for a rebuttal of every point. n/t Admiral Loinpresser Jul 2015 #261

Knock it off tavalon Jul 2015 #113

I dare no I triple dog dare the Republicans to make Levi an issue. Kalidurga Jul 2015 #3

Well said! emsimon33 Jul 2015 #5

The difference is Sanders admits he is a socialist. DCBob Jul 2015 #8

They won't when they realize they are socialist. Kalidurga Jul 2015 #9

With all due respect.... BooScout Jul 2015 #10

You swear fealty to a political party and consider yourself enlightened? Le Taz Hot Jul 2015 #28

Last time I checked..... BooScout Jul 2015 #52

Read the rules again. Le Taz Hot Jul 2015 #101

Message auto-removed Name removed Jul 2015 #198

you old dawg you! BooScout Jul 2015 #208

That's a major mindset change and is not going to happen between now and election day. DCBob Jul 2015 #11

Given that they've been oblivious okasha Jul 2015 #241

Everyone I talk to gets it and most the people I talk to are conservative family members. Kalidurga Jul 2015 #247

The US Military is the largest Socialist system in the world. tecelote Jul 2015 #279

America is a socialist Democracy as it is today, when it comes right down to it madokie Jul 2015 #16

LOL.. "we the people" don't agree with you.. DCBob Jul 2015 #19

Thats assuming that we're talking about and comparing madokie Jul 2015 #22

I doubt most voters would know the difference. DCBob Jul 2015 #23

Thats not what you stated as truth though madokie Jul 2015 #26

Since we are mincing words here I thought he calls himself a "Democratic Socialist"?? DCBob Jul 2015 #37

Matters not which comes first madokie Jul 2015 #41

Are you kidding.. there is huge difference.. DCBob Jul 2015 #49

Whatever madokie Jul 2015 #54

Before lecturing others, you might TM99 Jul 2015 #110

Double talk. okasha Jul 2015 #242

I don't think people care kacekwl Jul 2015 #56

Then you are sticking your head in the sand Sheepshank Jul 2015 #78

The charts above Mnpaul Jul 2015 #168

If this terrible label is hurting him, Admiral Loinpresser Jul 2015 #263

The New Deal: Socialism in action tavalon Jul 2015 #118

I think they're asking people to react to the word--and Frank Luntz and his "Words that work" crew MADem Jul 2015 #269

the republiCON base aren't in our camp anyway madokie Jul 2015 #276

Remember when "Progressive" was a dirty, scary word? MannyGoldstein Jul 2015 #46

Well shit.. "progressive" to the ignorant masses is a new Walmart down the road. DCBob Jul 2015 #61

Bernie doesn't have a few years to change internal thinking of thie US population. Sheepshank Jul 2015 #79

Who else is going to change it? MannyGoldstein Jul 2015 #80

Message auto-removed Name removed Jul 2015 #201

Wow, I think you just proved that Republicans are old tavalon Jul 2015 #117

Down this road again Bob? 99Forever Jul 2015 #32

Sorry if the truth is difficult for you. DCBob Jul 2015 #34

In what Universe is your OPINION called truth, Bob? 99Forever Jul 2015 #38

Pluto maybe madokie Jul 2015 #44

More like Universe Hillary... 99Forever Jul 2015 #47

I'm sure they do madokie Jul 2015 #48

Not my opinion.. it's the voter's opinion. DCBob Jul 2015 #66

linking back to one of your earlier post is laughable madokie Jul 2015 #278

Here's another poll.. but you probably wont like it either. DCBob Jul 2015 #293

Whow. Thanks for this post. I do riversedge Jul 2015 #302

Most of the people with a real problem with the word "socialist"..... daleanime Jul 2015 #50

I am talking about this as an issue in the general should he somehow win the Dem nomination. DCBob Jul 2015 #67

Me too.... daleanime Jul 2015 #68

Ok, so you are saying those types wouldn't vote for Democrat regardless. DCBob Jul 2015 #70

You believe Hillary would have a stronger appeal with independents? daleanime Jul 2015 #73

Yes. Not sure what the laughing is all about... I guess you don't keep up with the polls. DCBob Jul 2015 #83

Is it the same as a month ago? daleanime Jul 2015 #89

This poll was taken June 26-28. DCBob Jul 2015 #92

And the poll from May? daleanime Jul 2015 #146

what about it?? DCBob Jul 2015 #160

Was it the same? daleanime Jul 2015 #177

I have no idea? DCBob Jul 2015 #179

Because that's what's important.... daleanime Jul 2015 #181

So you know? Not interested in playing games. DCBob Jul 2015 #183

Excuse me, I was neither rude or disrespectful.... daleanime Jul 2015 #190

Sorry, but you are not excused.. if you have something to say.. just say it. DCBob Jul 2015 #244

No problem, I'll be as patient with you as necessary.... daleanime Jul 2015 #248

WTF? DCBob Jul 2015 #249

Short version, you have my sympathies, you've proven that you need them.... daleanime Jul 2015 #251

WTFF? Sympathies? You are one confused individual. DCBob Jul 2015 #254

No, just a sympathetic one... daleanime Jul 2015 #257

Easily solved tavalon Jul 2015 #116

Some folks seem to just want it to be a problem.... daleanime Jul 2015 #178

Yup, seems they have a Levi in their closet too tavalon Jul 2015 #114

Message auto-removed Name removed Jul 2015 #197

Proposals to pay for his plans. Stevepol Jul 2015 #216

Oh thanks I was just going off the top of my head and didn't go back and listen to the last speech.. Kalidurga Jul 2015 #222

Our elected officials are aging udbcrzy2 Jul 2015 #4

Carlos Danger wrote as much yesterday. Wilms Jul 2015 #6

A person I know who is a political illiterate brought up this age thing up with Bernie this evening emsimon33 Jul 2015 #7

The whole of the 'CON party attacked Jack Kennedy as too young madokie Jul 2015 #18

Political parties are a way to organize to help candidates win elections. femmedem Jul 2015 #12

I like your Carlos Danger handle much more. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Jul 2015 #13

Huh? BooScout Jul 2015 #15

They're accusing you of being someone else since they can't handle what you're saying. Cha Jul 2015 #236

This is just sad.... BooScout Jul 2015 #240

IOW the typical MO. Now you know. I've seen it so many times it's just boring.. sorry Cha Jul 2015 #243

Thanks! BooScout Jul 2015 #246

+1 artislife Jul 2015 #60

I would challenge the "not a nagative campaigner" concept Cosmocat Jul 2015 #14

There are alot of major question marks about Sanders.. DCBob Jul 2015 #17

Lets hear these major questions that make him a risky candidate madokie Jul 2015 #20

Here are a few off the top of my head.. DCBob Jul 2015 #21

Please proceed madokie Jul 2015 #24

I know you wouldn't worry about any of these things.. DCBob Jul 2015 #33

Geeze man madokie Jul 2015 #39

Look at the screen name Depaysement Jul 2015 #53

I know madokie Jul 2015 #57

! Depaysement Jul 2015 #58

Gee, if you just switch genders artislife Jul 2015 #55

The Bronx accent will be a big plus redstateblues Jul 2015 #264

Replies and rebuttal. TM99 Jul 2015 #25

He says he's a Democratic Socialist. Renew Deal Jul 2015 #30

That's what I said. TM99 Jul 2015 #31

And your regular everyday uninformed voter is going to get that difference?? DCBob Jul 2015 #36

Yes, of course. TM99 Jul 2015 #40

yeah.. right. You forgot we live in a "Fox educated" world. DCBob Jul 2015 #51

Not a lot of Democrats TM99 Jul 2015 #75

General election issue. DCBob Jul 2015 #84

Again, so what? TM99 Jul 2015 #86

Are you interested in keeping a Democrat in the WH?? DCBob Jul 2015 #90

My only interest is in getting TM99 Jul 2015 #91

Hillary is not as liberal as Bernie but she is far more liberal than any GOPer. DCBob Jul 2015 #93

Yes, indeedy, Hillary Clinton TM99 Jul 2015 #97

So the question is do you want to go with a "number 13" liberal who will likely win the WH or.. DCBob Jul 2015 #102

Yes, I will take the risk. TM99 Jul 2015 #105

Hillary Clinton will hand this election to the worst of the worse if she is our nominee madokie Jul 2015 #275

Look at you all about party unity and SwampG8r Jul 2015 #298

Precisely! n/t BooScout Jul 2015 #42

Really don't kacekwl Jul 2015 #62

I love your speaking the truth daybranch Jul 2015 #74

"His oddball past?" Le Taz Hot Jul 2015 #104

-- his extreme approach to banking reforms frylock Jul 2015 #252

I know, right? gollygee Jul 2015 #301

What is his "oddball past?" gollygee Jul 2015 #300

Guns, can his stance... NOT LOSE votes in south side KC or Chi Town!? I doubt it dearly uponit7771 Jul 2015 #268

Not at all madokie Jul 2015 #274

Guns are NOT a worry in South Side KC? Chi Town, Fifth Ward?! You KIDDING?! These are predeomantly uponit7771 Jul 2015 #288

I did not insinuate anything of the kind madokie Jul 2015 #289

More dismissiveness vs addressing the obvious that Bernies gun stance isn't going to play well were uponit7771 Jul 2015 #290

You have no idea madokie Jul 2015 #291

More condescending ad homs,indicator of a weak position on the issue of Bernies stance on guns uponit7771 Jul 2015 #292

When they have no counter to the debate.... BooScout Jul 2015 #295

Bull HERVEPA Jul 2015 #287

The answer as to why Sanders is running as a Democrat, and is quite simple. He told us he will NOT still_one Jul 2015 #27

If Sanders won, his presidency would resemble Pope Benedict Renew Deal Jul 2015 #29

Oh, okay.. frylock Jul 2015 #253

Sanders has been caucusing with Democrats sincehegot into office, he's voted with.... marble falls Jul 2015 #35

Says the person... 99Forever Jul 2015 #43

I am a US CITIZEN BooScout Jul 2015 #69

He is a true democrat, believing in the things that are consistent with rainy Jul 2015 #45

If he is a Democrat why does he still have I behind is name as a congressional member? Thinkingabout Jul 2015 #170

Because the Democrats in office are the rainy Jul 2015 #280

He does not represent Democrat values on every issue. Thinkingabout Jul 2015 #283

Granted, this one has a little more honey with the vinegar, but your avatar was a dead giveaway corkhead Jul 2015 #59

I have a suggestion for you. 99Forever Jul 2015 #63

You mean laugh at the fact that this person pathetically rec'd their own OP? corkhead Jul 2015 #64

"A rose by any other name would smell as sweet." W. Shakespeare R. P. McMurphy Jul 2015 #65

Ooooh Nice! wendylaroux Jul 2015 #164

I think he is the opposite of a DINO, a Democrat in everything but name. Howard Dean would agree, seaglass Jul 2015 #71

some republicans say the party left them an that is why they voted for Obama daybranch Jul 2015 #72

The Third Way and DLC total betrayal of Franklin Roosevelt ecomonic system? Thinkingabout Jul 2015 #152

What Disturbs Me About You Is This..... global1 Jul 2015 #76

Not an attack piece at all... BooScout Jul 2015 #82

The Repugs Will Pounce On Any Dem Candidate That Makes It To The Nomination..... global1 Jul 2015 #94

LOL..... BooScout Jul 2015 #95

The Republicans have been pouncing on Hillary since at least '92. LuvLoogie Jul 2015 #111

Why waste all this time with concerns over someone you don't think will win in the first place? arcane1 Jul 2015 #227

Why don't you try that again minus the personal attacks? n/t seaglass Jul 2015 #115

With the likes of Trump & Cruz Dems have a real opportunity to shave off Rep voters Sheepshank Jul 2015 #85

You understood wrong. LWolf Jul 2015 #88

Thank you. I was going to ask the same thing but you put it better than I could. historylovr Jul 2015 #122

I like Hillary, BUT... onecaliberal Jul 2015 #107

He can't win as an independent tavalon Jul 2015 #112

I too worry about how he would pay for these things rock Jul 2015 #119

You know when you see a title like this artislife Jul 2015 #120

Ageism anyone ? CTBlueboy Jul 2015 #121

"with absolutely nothing proposed on how to pay for them"... ljm2002 Jul 2015 #123

I'll keep this short retrowire Jul 2015 #124

This makes me think you don't know much about Bernie's time in Congress nor about the Democratic Bluenorthwest Jul 2015 #125

PROGRESSIVE is NOT a synonym for DEMOCRATIC. MADem Jul 2015 #207

What kind of DEMOCRATIC Party do we want? Martin Eden Jul 2015 #265

"Progressive values" mean different things to different people. MADem Jul 2015 #267

A crashed economy and disastrous wars mean different things to different people, you suppose Martin Eden Jul 2015 #285

No--I think a crashed economy means the same to pretty much everyone. MADem Jul 2015 #286

It's a shame your polite opinion has been met with personal insult and invective. MADem Jul 2015 #128

Thanks.... BooScout Jul 2015 #132

I pointedo out the gaping hole in the OP's knowledge of the Party and the person, offered a whole Bluenorthwest Jul 2015 #134

If the shoe does not fit you, I would encourage you to not try to cram your foot into it. MADem Jul 2015 #137

And look how your pal goes after me. Look at that. Does not respond in any way to all that I wrote Bluenorthwest Jul 2015 #192

Look, I was responding to the post that STARTED THIS THREAD--if you want a fight, I MADem Jul 2015 #196

you need to calm down... BooScout Jul 2015 #203

And please share your credentials.... BooScout Jul 2015 #138

in all fairness I respect Bluenorthwest opinion, to me he's one of the good guys. William769 Jul 2015 #182

I will if he will... BooScout Jul 2015 #200

You and I agree maybe 5% of the time Le Taz Hot Jul 2015 #262

So rather than respond to what I offered, you question my record? Bluenorthwest Jul 2015 #189

you questioned or rather condemned my own knowledge first.... BooScout Jul 2015 #199

And, who couldn't have predicted that? Cha Jul 2015 #235

No one wants to discuss even sincere concerns. MADem Jul 2015 #266

I know.. they feel so strongly about their candidate.. I would think they could be able Cha Jul 2015 #273

If You Like Sanders... aintitfunny Jul 2015 #129

He's still not actually a Democrat. William769 Jul 2015 #131

You stand corrected. 99Forever Jul 2015 #135

Show me where he is a declared Democrat, then I'll stand corrected. William769 Jul 2015 #136

Find it yourself. 99Forever Jul 2015 #139

So then you can't. Ok. William769 Jul 2015 #140

Try looking up the definitions of can't and won't. 99Forever Jul 2015 #144

Try this. William769 Jul 2015 #147

Don't care. 99Forever Jul 2015 #148

Typical. William769 Jul 2015 #150

did he mean don't care BooScout Jul 2015 #154

Yes you are. 99Forever Jul 2015 #155

So I guess you really didn't mean bu bye? William769 Jul 2015 #157

Guess I didn't. 99Forever Jul 2015 #161

Well that's obvious ConservativeDemocrat Jul 2015 #206

Is that what happened? 99Forever Jul 2015 #210

I really wish individual posts had a LIKE button. BooScout Jul 2015 #151

It's on my website. Feel free to use it when needed. William769 Jul 2015 #156

Thanks! BooScout Jul 2015 #159

That's fantastic! nt onehandle Jul 2015 #209

lol Bobbie Jo Jul 2015 #174

I think you upset someone. BooScout Jul 2015 #141

I don't. William769 Jul 2015 #142

I'm the op.... BooScout Jul 2015 #143

And you would be wrong again. 99Forever Jul 2015 #153

nah.....I'm usually correct.... BooScout Jul 2015 #158

It's don't and you aren't. 99Forever Jul 2015 #166

Does this mean you care? BooScout Jul 2015 #169

You are most certainly touched. 99Forever Jul 2015 #172

It's not nice to call names.... BooScout Jul 2015 #175

Names? 99Forever Jul 2015 #176

Rofl :) Cha Jul 2015 #239

He has said otherwise, so I am afraid YOU stand corrected. MADem Jul 2015 #145

Thank you. William769 Jul 2015 #149

The poster has made an incorrect assertion, and won't provide proof because there isn't any. MADem Jul 2015 #162

Agreed. William769 Jul 2015 #163

My point exactly n/t BooScout Jul 2015 #165

+1000000000000000000 Little Star Jul 2015 #171

Cannot dispute this. calimary Jul 2015 #223

How is he corrected? Sanders is not a Democrat but an Independent. hrmjustin Jul 2015 #180

It isn't. Bobbie Jo Jul 2015 #184

Lol yes it is funny to watch. hrmjustin Jul 2015 #185

Sennator Sanders is a declared candidate for the Democratic Party's.. 99Forever Jul 2015 #186

He is not a registered Democrat. Are you claiming here is? hrmjustin Jul 2015 #187

Registered where? 99Forever Jul 2015 #211

Forgive me for using logic and facts. I know it was very mean of me. hrmjustin Jul 2015 #212

Way to dodge the question. 99Forever Jul 2015 #213

Seems like you are dodging and wasting my time. hrmjustin Jul 2015 #214

Hey, if you can't or won't answer the question, just say so. 99Forever Jul 2015 #215

Sanders has made clear his whole career he was never a member of the Democratic Party. hrmjustin Jul 2015 #217

That wasn't the question. 99Forever Jul 2015 #218

Vermont does not have registration by party. hrmjustin Jul 2015 #219

No. 99Forever Jul 2015 #220

Actually it doesn't because Schunlin, Leahy, ans Walsh identify as Democrats. hrmjustin Jul 2015 #221

... 99Forever Jul 2015 #225

From your posts i didn't think you were capable of having one. hrmjustin Jul 2015 #226

.... 99Forever Jul 2015 #229

Jury results. zeemike Jul 2015 #270

Yeah. So what? Maedhros Jul 2015 #193

What matters is I am A Democrat. William769 Jul 2015 #195

The Democratic Party is a tool for getting things done. Maedhros Jul 2015 #204

It's not Bernie's tool.... BooScout Jul 2015 #281

Wow, really? Link? frylock Jul 2015 #255

II like Hillary I really do But silenttigersong Jul 2015 #167

Awwww - Anthony Weiner - AKA Carlos Danger!!!!! (that name begs for exclamation points) - beat ya to djean111 Jul 2015 #173

Has Sanders actually said he entered the race to drive the Democratic Party left? WorseBeforeBetter Jul 2015 #188

No need to ask any more questions, Martin O'Malley has been a Democrat since birth, elleng Jul 2015 #191

"I like Bernie BUT..." always precedes nonsense. Maedhros Jul 2015 #194

Your "understanding" is false. He has been in this race to get elected, period. arcane1 Jul 2015 #202

He did us Dems a HUGE favor by not running as an Independent. PotatoChip Jul 2015 #205

I agree gwheezie Jul 2015 #234

I can't help but feel like this is a complete joke bobbobbins01 Jul 2015 #230

I don't know why we rise to the bait Rosa Luxemburg Jul 2015 #245

Yeah, I should have kept my mouth shut bobbobbins01 Jul 2015 #271

remember forrest gump restorefreedom Jul 2015 #231

Youre a serious person with seriously serious concerns that seriously need to be addressed seriously Scootaloo Jul 2015 #232

And, you know, we have to make HARD choices. FlatBaroque Jul 2015 #250

I think it's a legit concern for any dem running gwheezie Jul 2015 #233

That is what the primary race is for -- for him to prove he is the best candidate overall. aikoaiko Jul 2015 #237

Response by paragraph: Admiral Loinpresser Jul 2015 #258

Well, I will answer them mvd Jul 2015 #259

This message was self-deleted by its author Ken Burch Jul 2015 #277

k riversedge Jul 2015 #296

k&r Little Star Jul 2015 #297

If you don't like him running as a Democrat, you have a beef with the system as mmonk Jul 2015 #299

It's proof, imo, that he's a realist. JNelson6563 Jul 2015 #303

Democrats are hoisted on their own petard on that one. SolutionisSolidarity Jul 2015 #304

the fact that he's running a democrat it's honor taught_me_patience Jul 2015 #305